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Please watch...

Discussion in 'North American Politics' started by Daemon Sophic, Oct 19, 2020.

  1. Daemon Sophic

    Daemon Sophic Avatar in flux

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    I don’t have anything to add to this right now. I was looking at “great monologues”, and bumped into this.


    No, I won’t summarize, since the monologue is itself a summary. Please take the few minutes to watch.
    Thank you.
     
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  2. Stevicus

    Stevicus Veteran Member
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    I've seen this before. I tend to agree with the assessment, although "greatest country in the world" is more of a subjective judgment than anything else.

    I think a lot of people in recent generations have been raised with certain patriotic ideas about America being the greatest country - freedom, democracy, Bill of Rights, opportunity, capitalism, etc. A lot of this was in conjunction with our role as the "leader of the free world," which we still seem to fall into (as much as I wish we would stop).

    I thought he was taking a cheap shot at the 20-year-old, saying they're the "worst generation ever." The Baby Boomers were born from 1946-64 (give or take), so they were born in an America which was at its peak in more ways than one (economically, culturally, industrially, militarily). Comparing how America was when they were born to how it is now, whose generation would be most responsible for the current condition? Certainly not the 20-year-old's generation. (I'm technically a Boomer myself, so I'm including myself, although I was born at the younger end, on the cusp of Generation X - and they were no great prize either.)
     
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  3. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

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    Things have changed since that monologue.
    The US now not only has the highest military spending and the highest per-capita incarceration but also the highest Covid cases and deaths. Number one again!
     
  4. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    I have used this several time against the argument "america is the greatest"

    Time was that America was once an example to the world, but not in recent years.


    I have in the past fact checked most of the statements made in the vid and despite being a tongue in cheek sketch, the statements are/were true at the time.
     
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  5. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    #5 stvdv, Oct 20, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2020
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  6. Daemon Sophic

    Daemon Sophic Avatar in flux

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    Thank you. I agree with both of you. The girl’s generation is neither the worst, nor yet directly responsible for the problems of the USA. Our decline over the last 40+ years is squarely on us older folks.
    But he’s spot on with everything else, most particularly the 2 lines...
    - We aspired to intelligence, not belittle it,....
    and
    - We were able to do all these things, because we were informed.



    This is as true today as 250 years ago.
    "An educated citizenry is a vital requisite for our survival as a free people." - Thomas Jefferson
     
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  7. Mindmaster

    Mindmaster Well-Known Member
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    Don't forget also the most freedom, but generally ranked 10 or above on any criteria that matters... Per capita income, etc... also ranked about 198th in poverty... But, it's such an awful place, lol. (That's to say there are 197 places out of 208 that are worse to live in regard to your own standard of living.)

    Certainly, we have crazy military spending but we also are the world police and people pay us for that service. Net result: We get more toys, bigger boats, and they get safety without having to deal with it. (We're better at it so why not.) They're happy, so are we.

    The COVID number is fake as all hell. (Pardon the fox link, it was just the first that came up, lol. It's actually just spitting CDC data.) New CDC report shows 94% of COVID-19 deaths in US had contributing conditions

    It's generally underlying conditions with a combination of covid that kill only a very small number of people actually died via covid itself. Just to give you an idea, but that means out of the touted 200k number it's only 10k or so that it's directly killed. The other people were weak or otherwise suffering from other maladies any of which could have killed them all by themselves. All of these secondary causes, IMHO, are far more important than COVID to the sum total. COVID may have contributed, but many people were claimed primarily by these other factors. If someone dies of a heart attack and has covid they have to list them as a covid death even if they died because their heart quit. (And, there is a lot of this.) Heart stoppage is not a symptom of covid infection.

    There is always the option of leaving the USA, but I don't see anyone in a hurry to do that. There are plenty of wonderful socialist countries, dictatorships, and other places that have far less freedom but 'do what you want' with the money, lol. Consider a change of scenery... I mean with like 208 other countries to hang out in I am sure one of them is to your liking.
     
  8. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    "Peak" & "greatest" are highly subjective & personal evaluations.
    Absolute terms or relative to allies or enemies?
    Economic domination or civil liberties?
    Political unity or diversity?
    Environmental degradation or finally recognizing its value?
    The list goes on.

    Doomscrolling corrupts one's judgment.
    Beyond Doomscrolling - Hidden Brain - Omny.fm

    The originator of that monologue may take
    a flying amorous leap at a rolling donut.
     
  9. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    The OECD considers America the 4th mist poverty stricken country in the world with a poverty rate of 17.8% of population.

    Without covid many of those people would not have died yet, some may in fact have lead long productive lives. The idea of contributing conditions is the fake to mask the number of deaths.


    And of course the real biggie

    The freedom to suffer and die from a terrible disease if you cannot afford healthcare, the freedom accept whoever is chosen to run your country by the elite 500, the freedom to be shot and killed by any nutjob with a gun. Some freedoms are not freedoms. Most western countries have far more freedom than is allowed in America.
     
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  10. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    I don't know why people in the video seem shocked to hear that America is not the greatest country.
     
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  11. joe1776

    joe1776 Well-Known Member

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    That's a clip from The Newsroom. Aaron Sorkin is the writer: Other projects include: Film A Few Good Men (Nicholson, Cruise). Currently on Netflix, West Wing, Molly's Game, The Trial of the Chicago Seven. All well-written, IMO.
     
    #11 joe1776, Oct 20, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2020
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  12. Mindmaster

    Mindmaster Well-Known Member
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    Yes, they're obviously wrong too. Besides, it's not just that you're in poverty but that you get the support when you are there. We're pretty decent with that. Some states are very terrible with this (like CA) and it does skew the numbers a bit.

    Kinda. But, TBH, the initial deaths were a product of treatment deficiencies in dealing with an unknown quantity. Currently, the death rates are where they are expected to be... Actually less, from all causes... This tells me currently COVID isn't the reason people are dying so much.

    Tableau Public

    As you can see from that chart, we've crossed the 'normal' threshold several times in both 2018 and 2017. That was from influenza.

    Indigent people don't pay for insurance in this country, so I don't know what you're on about. If you're poor the state covers you 100%. If you're not poor you have insurance, so no idea what the argument is other than a set of tropes certain political factions tell themselves.

    Freedom comes with the choice to make poor decisions at the election booth. If you've been voting one way or another maybe it's time to consider a change, lol. Freedom always comes with the freedom to vote for idiots, make financial mistakes, or do other stupid things. That's baked into the system, but at the same point you get to keep far more of your income than those other people in countries where they make all the choices for them do. It's a trade security for safety --- you get more choice in the way that you get to use your money the way you want, but you got less safety because no one is going to pick up your slack. If you decide to make a ton of dumb financial decisions or poor career choices there is nothing stopping you here.

    Please name any country you think has more freedom than the USA... I know of absolutely none. Pick your vice from high taxes (that take 40%+ of your income), to lack of freedom of speech, to getting jailed for that speech, or religious persecution. I assure you every place is worse than here if you add it up. The poor and impoverished here live better than they do in many other countries often not having to pay for rent, food, or medical at all. (If they don't have these things it's merely a matter of them not applying. That makes them dumb, not poor, lol.)
     
  13. Stevicus

    Stevicus Veteran Member
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    Well, there was definitely a noticeable difference after WW2, when industries were booming and people were moving to the suburbs to relatively decent homes (as opposed to the tenements and Hoovervilles of previous decades). Unions became stronger and got better contracts, although this didn't impact negatively on the capitalists, since they were also doing quite well. Civil rights were also gaining more attention, and policies were improving in that area as well.

    Education and healthcare improved immensely and became the envy of the world. My dad told me that he never had to pay a dime in medical care since it was all covered by employers (unlike what started under Reagan, with co-pays and premiums). If you flew on an airliner, the meal was free, not an extra charge. Banks didn't charge people to have checking accounts. There wasn't the kind of nickel and diming of people that started up under Reagan. When businesses have to add extra fees and grub for every bit of spare change they can get, it's a sign that there's trouble in paradise.

    I don't think we ever had "political unity," and the Cold War no doubt put a damper on things. The Cold War put a tremendous strain, and it's largely the reason why America would start to fall into decline. It was mainly due to our fellow Americans who were overly obsessed about the economic systems of other countries, while paying so little attention to our own. That was a mistake, and it points to the key reason why America declined and our relatively poor ranking in the indicators noted by the speaker in the video.

    As for environmental degradation, I think there was an awakening during the same period when more people started to realize that the environment was something to be cherished and protected.

    Video is too long. Is there a synopsis somewhere?

    Oh it wasn't that bad. Maybe a bit of tough love, but nothing truly malicious.

    In my view, it's not necessary for America to be the greatest country in the world anyway. We can still have a nice country and a nice place to live, without feeling the need to thump our chests and say "We are the greatest!" That kind of talk just creates a lot of arrogant people of the kind who seem to dominate political discourse these days. As a nation, we need to learn more humility.
     
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  14. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

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    What about 44 countries?
    2020 World Press Freedom Index | RSF
    One of the problems mentioned in the clip: ignorance.
     
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  15. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    I would say an indipendent, global ngo with no axe to grind is actually right. Support is taken into account and the fact people are getting support is an indicator they are living below the poverty line

    Heart disease and cancer are certainly claiming more lives, on the world scale, covid comes 3rd


    Only of you can make a claim, meet requirements, and don't fall through the net?

    The electoral college is also known to make poor choices

    Taxes and income have little to do with freedom, we all (or most) pay tax at the going rate. And the states comes 6th in highest average earnings.


    Freedom of speech comes with personal responsibility. That said i know on no western countries that jail a person for speaking responsibly

    Oh trust me, religious persecution is rife in the US. I have been and have experienced that first hand.
     
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  16. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

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    That would be relevant if the US counted different from other countries. They don't. Covid deaths are deaths with Covid everywhere. Thus, no matter how high the numbers from Covid are, the US is still leading.
     
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  17. Mindmaster

    Mindmaster Well-Known Member
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    Here we go with the socialist utopias, lol.

    Let's face it... America isn't for everyone, you like having the freedom to do what you want or you don't. Every country that is on that list blows the USA away on how much they suck for taxes, upward mobility, and opportunity. For example, want a living wage in Europe without getting a four year degree? PFFT... Not happening... You don't have that problem in the USA if you pick the right career. All I gotta say about those countries is VAT, and done. Your income tax will be higher, but you're also paying tons of VAT and going broke on it. Your real tax rate is over 50% of your income for sure.

    There is more to it than I will bother with, but it's more than just one line it's a sum total of it's parts. You don't have freedom if you don't have the right to own firearms either, you just have the illusion of it.

    The article you suggested on the link was in reference to press freedom... That doesn't mean anything... A lot of western nations have specific write-ins for that, while simultaneously giving up most other things. Nevermind, that most of the countries they're calling free have compulsory conscription in the military for some time period, lol.
     
  18. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    You addressed so many things.
    I'll cull a few.....
    But fares were so high that few people could afford to
    fly. I prefer today's lower fares, & bring my own food.
    Things are so much better now....IMO.
    This meant that the costs of maintaining low balance
    accounts were borne by others. I much prefer modern
    banking, which has more services, more options, &
    cheap fees.
    What you call "nickel and diming" I see as opportunity
    to select services & products based more upon real
    costs, & less on subsidy by (or of) others.
    I see it very differently....more individual variation with
    an ability to choose. Not a one-size-fits-all collective.
    And this is stronger today than in the 1950s.
    This sounds like detente.
     
  19. Mindmaster

    Mindmaster Well-Known Member
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    Well, China lies about it's numbers... They're #1 on population.
    India has been exceedingly lucky or they're lying too... They're #2 on population.
    We're #3, so of course we're #1 on the list because we're the only one reporting anything. But... that isn't the number that matters...

    The population of the USA is larger than the entirety of Europe and several other countries combined. Per capita, we're 8th or 9th... So, basically the only people lower just don't have enough population to pump up the deaths after that. We're basically as low as you can go with such a high population of people.

    Charts: How The U.S. Ranks On COVID-19 Deaths Per Capita — And By Case Count
     
  20. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

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    For those who don't know the series, this is what happens later:

    I think it's worth mentioning.
     
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