People die because they don't enter Heaven

[Snowcat]

Subconsciously you know this is true, but because of brainwashing, bad teaching from the mortals, and bad Bible translations homo sapiens are still putting up with death. Jesus heralded in John 8:51 He that keepeth my sayings shall never see death. It is laughable and typical that the moderators here had to close the thread "or review" entitled Immortality or Death. Here is what I stated:

Religion is as the string-quartet on the Titanic, trying to assuage the fears of those facing the inevitable...DEATH.

Religion is dead, so is most of what people call Spirituality.

Proverbs 14:12 There is way which seems right to a man, but the end thereof is death.

Only the ascension of Jesus within can bring immortality. The Bible tells you how to do this. If you are hungry for it, the Holy Spirit will show you.

:angel2:

 

[PolyHedral]

Last time I checked, morality had nothing to do with biology.

 

[Eliot Wild]

Only the ascension of Jesus within can bring immortality. The Bible tells you how to do this. If you are hungry for it, the Holy Spirit will show you.

:angel2:

The Bible also tells people how to 'morally' engage in the practice of slavery, thereby implicitly condoning in its 'moral teachings' the repulsive acts of acquiring and maintaining human slaves. Maybe it's just me, but I personally don't want to 'ascend' to immortality with a divine slave trader or any deity that condones human bondage, whether explicitly or implicitly. I mean, if Jesus and the God of Abraham can't take a solid moral stance on abolition, then really, just how 'holy' could they be?

 

[Snowcat]

The Bible also tells people how to 'morally' engage in the practice of slavery, thereby implicitly condoning in its 'moral teachings' the repulsive acts of acquiring and maintaining human slaves. Maybe it's just me, but I personally don't want to 'ascend' to immortality with a divine slave trader or any deity that condones human bondage, whether explicitly or implicitly. I mean, if Jesus and the God of Abraham can't take a solid moral stance on abolition, then really, just how 'holy' could they be?

You are either looking for reasong to get out, or reasons to get in...here is the answer to your hang-up:

The Bible does not specifically condemn the practice of slavery. It gives instructions on how slaves should be treated (Deuteronomy 15:12-15; Ephesians 6:9; Colossians 4:1), but does not outlaw slavery altogether. Many see this as the Bible condoning all forms of slavery. What many fail to understand is that slavery in biblical times was very different from the slavery that was practiced in the past few centuries in many parts of the world. The slavery in the Bible was not based exclusively on race. People were not enslaved because of their nationality or the color of their skin. In Bible times, slavery was more a matter of social status. People sold themselves as slaves when they could not pay their debts or provide for their families. In New Testament times, sometimes doctors, lawyers, and even politicians were slaves of someone else. Some people actually chose to be slaves so as to have all their needs provided for by their masters.

The slavery of the past few centuries was often based exclusively on skin color. In the United States, many black people were considered slaves because of their nationality; many slave owners truly believed black people to be inferior human beings. The Bible most definitely does condemn race-based slavery. Consider the slavery the Hebrews experienced when they were in Egypt. The Hebrews were slaves, not by choice, but because they were Hebrews (Exodus 13:14). The plagues God poured out on Egypt demonstrate how God feels about racial slavery (Exodus 7-11). So, yes, the Bible does condemn some forms of slavery. At the same time, the Bible does seem to allow for other forms. The key issue is that the slavery the Bible allowed for in no way resembled the racial slavery that plagued our world in the past few centuries.

In addition, both the Old and New Testaments condemn the practice of “man-stealing” which is what happened in Africa in the 19th century. Africans were rounded up by slave-hunters, who sold them to slave-traders, who brought them to the New World to work on plantations and farms. This practice is abhorrent to God. In fact, the penalty for such a crime in the Mosaic Law was death: “Anyone who kidnaps another and either sells him or still has him when he is caught must be put to death” (Exodus 21:16). Similarly, in the New Testament, slave-traders are listed among those who are “ungodly and sinful” and are in the same category as those who kill their fathers or mothers, murderers, adulterers and perverts, and liars and perjurers (1 Timothy 1:8-10).

Another crucial point is that the purpose of the Bible is to point the way to salvation, not to reform society. The Bible often approaches issues from the inside out. If a person experiences the love, mercy, and grace of God by receiving His salvation, God will reform his soul, changing the way he thinks and acts. A person who has experienced God’s gift of salvation and freedom from the slavery of sin, as God reforms his soul, will realize that enslaving another human being is wrong. A person who has truly experienced God’s grace will in turn be gracious towards others. That would be the Bible’s prescription for ending slavery.

 

[outhouse]

people die because our bodies are fragile and get old.

Do you have a point that comes close to reality?

 

[Eliot Wild]

You are either looking for reasong to get out, or reasons to get in...here is the answer to your hang-up:

"Get out" or "get in" what? What does that mean? Do you mean I am personally looking for a reason to 'get out' or 'get into' heaven?

A bit presumptious, don't you think? Then again, I suppose you have no idea that you are being presumptious by declaring what others are thinking without really knowing. So it goes.

The Bible does not specifically condemn the practice of slavery. It gives instructions on how slaves should be treated (Deuteronomy 15:12-15; Ephesians 6:9; Colossians 4:1), but does not outlaw slavery altogether. Many see this as the Bible condoning all forms of slavery. What many fail to understand is that slavery in biblical times was very different from the slavery that was practiced in the past few centuries in many parts of the world. The slavery in the Bible was not based exclusively on race. People were not enslaved because of their nationality or the color of their skin. In Bible times, slavery was more a matter of social status.

I get it, so according to the Bible, owning slaves is morally acceptible if one was born into slavery. Ehh, that doesn't really make it sound any better to me.

People sold themselves as slaves when they could not pay their debts or provide for their families. In New Testament times, sometimes doctors, lawyers, and even politicians were slaves of someone else. Some people actually chose to be slaves so as to have all their needs provided for by their masters.

I think I understand this too. So, the Bible is also unwilling to oppose slavery that occurs from circumstance. If someone is indigent and incapable of feeding their children, the bible has no problem with someone taking away their dignity and freedom, just as long as they don't physically beat them. Got to say, I'm not much more inclined to accept this form of slavery either.

The slavery of the past few centuries was often based exclusively on skin color. In the United States, many black people were considered slaves because of their nationality; many slave owners truly believed black people to be inferior human beings. The Bible most definitely does condemn race-based slavery. Consider the slavery the Hebrews experienced when they were in Egypt. The Hebrews were slaves, not by choice, but because they were Hebrews (Exodus 13:14). The plagues God poured out on Egypt demonstrate how God feels about racial slavery (Exodus 7-11). So, yes, the Bible does condemn some forms of slavery. At the same time, the Bible does seem to allow for other forms. The key issue is that the slavery the Bible allowed for in no way resembled the racial slavery that plagued our world in the past few centuries.

In addition, both the Old and New Testaments condemn the practice of “man-stealing” which is what happened in Africa in the 19th century. Africans were rounded up by slave-hunters, who sold them to slave-traders, who brought them to the New World to work on plantations and farms. This practice is abhorrent to God. In fact, the penalty for such a crime in the Mosaic Law was death: “Anyone who kidnaps another and either sells him or still has him when he is caught must be put to death” (Exodus 21:16). Similarly, in the New Testament, slave-traders are listed among those who are “ungodly and sinful” and are in the same category as those who kill their fathers or mothers, murderers, adulterers and perverts, and liars and perjurers (1 Timothy 1:8-10).

Another crucial point is that the purpose of the Bible is to point the way to salvation, not to reform society. The Bible often approaches issues from the inside out. If a person experiences the love, mercy, and grace of God by receiving His salvation, God will reform his soul, changing the way he thinks and acts. A person who has experienced God’s gift of salvation and freedom from the slavery of sin, as God reforms his soul, will realize that enslaving another human being is wrong. A person who has truly experienced God’s grace will in turn be gracious towards others. That would be the Bible’s prescription for ending slavery

Really? So, the Bible doesn't oppose slavery the way it does homosexuality, thievery and murder, because the real point of biblical instruction is not social justice but spiritual salvation?

Then I have now another reason to dislike the bible: its irresponsible refusal to take a position on some matters of moral consequence and social expediency. I knew there was a reason I never liked that particular book. God, it's a freakin' mess, huh.

 

[waitasec]

You are either looking for reasong to get out, or reasons to get in...here is the answer to your hang-up:

The Bible does not specifically condemn the practice of slavery. It gives instructions on how slaves should be treated (Deuteronomy 15:12-15; Ephesians 6:9; Colossians 4:1), but does not outlaw slavery altogether. Many see this as the Bible condoning all forms of slavery. What many fail to understand is that slavery in biblical times was very different from the slavery that was practiced in the past few centuries in many parts of the world. The slavery in the Bible was not based exclusively on race. People were not enslaved because of their nationality or the color of their skin. In Bible times, slavery was more a matter of social status. People sold themselves as slaves when they could not pay their debts or provide for their families. In New Testament times, sometimes doctors, lawyers, and even politicians were slaves of someone else. Some people actually chose to be slaves so as to have all their needs provided for by their masters.

The slavery of the past few centuries was often based exclusively on skin color. In the United States, many black people were considered slaves because of their nationality; many slave owners truly believed black people to be inferior human beings. The Bible most definitely does condemn race-based slavery. Consider the slavery the Hebrews experienced when they were in Egypt. The Hebrews were slaves, not by choice, but because they were Hebrews (Exodus 13:14). The plagues God poured out on Egypt demonstrate how God feels about racial slavery (Exodus 7-11). So, yes, the Bible does condemn some forms of slavery. At the same time, the Bible does seem to allow for other forms. The key issue is that the slavery the Bible allowed for in no way resembled the racial slavery that plagued our world in the past few centuries.

In addition, both the Old and New Testaments condemn the practice of “man-stealing” which is what happened in Africa in the 19th century. Africans were rounded up by slave-hunters, who sold them to slave-traders, who brought them to the New World to work on plantations and farms. This practice is abhorrent to God. In fact, the penalty for such a crime in the Mosaic Law was death: “Anyone who kidnaps another and either sells him or still has him when he is caught must be put to death” (Exodus 21:16). Similarly, in the New Testament, slave-traders are listed among those who are “ungodly and sinful” and are in the same category as those who kill their fathers or mothers, murderers, adulterers and perverts, and liars and perjurers (1 Timothy 1:8-10).

Another crucial point is that the purpose of the Bible is to point the way to salvation, not to reform society. The Bible often approaches issues from the inside out. If a person experiences the love, mercy, and grace of God by receiving His salvation, God will reform his soul, changing the way he thinks and acts. A person who has experienced God’s gift of salvation and freedom from the slavery of sin, as God reforms his soul, will realize that enslaving another human being is wrong. A person who has truly experienced God’s grace will in turn be gracious towards others. That would be the Bible’s prescription for ending slavery.

slavery is the dominion of one person over the other.
if you believe we are not all equal, then this ideology fits your principles.

 

[SnowyWhiteTiger]

You are either looking for reasong to get out, or reasons to get in...here is the answer to your hang-up:

The Bible does not specifically condemn the practice of slavery. It gives instructions on how slaves should be treated (Deuteronomy 15:12-15; Ephesians 6:9; Colossians 4:1), but does not outlaw slavery altogether. Many see this as the Bible condoning all forms of slavery. What many fail to understand is that slavery in biblical times was very different from the slavery that was practiced in the past few centuries in many parts of the world. The slavery in the Bible was not based exclusively on race. People were not enslaved because of their nationality or the color of their skin. In Bible times, slavery was more a matter of social status. People sold themselves as slaves when they could not pay their debts or provide for their families. In New Testament times, sometimes doctors, lawyers, and even politicians were slaves of someone else. Some people actually chose to be slaves so as to have all their needs provided for by their masters.

The slavery of the past few centuries was often based exclusively on skin color. In the United States, many black people were considered slaves because of their nationality; many slave owners truly believed black people to be inferior human beings. The Bible most definitely does condemn race-based slavery. Consider the slavery the Hebrews experienced when they were in Egypt. The Hebrews were slaves, not by choice, but because they were Hebrews (Exodus 13:14). The plagues God poured out on Egypt demonstrate how God feels about racial slavery (Exodus 7-11). So, yes, the Bible does condemn some forms of slavery. At the same time, the Bible does seem to allow for other forms. The key issue is that the slavery the Bible allowed for in no way resembled the racial slavery that plagued our world in the past few centuries.

In addition, both the Old and New Testaments condemn the practice of “man-stealing” which is what happened in Africa in the 19th century. Africans were rounded up by slave-hunters, who sold them to slave-traders, who brought them to the New World to work on plantations and farms. This practice is abhorrent to God. In fact, the penalty for such a crime in the Mosaic Law was death: “Anyone who kidnaps another and either sells him or still has him when he is caught must be put to death” (Exodus 21:16). Similarly, in the New Testament, slave-traders are listed among those who are “ungodly and sinful” and are in the same category as those who kill their fathers or mothers, murderers, adulterers and perverts, and liars and perjurers (1 Timothy 1:8-10).

Another crucial point is that the purpose of the Bible is to point the way to salvation, not to reform society. The Bible often approaches issues from the inside out. If a person experiences the love, mercy, and grace of God by receiving His salvation, God will reform his soul, changing the way he thinks and acts. A person who has experienced God’s gift of salvation and freedom from the slavery of sin, as God reforms his soul, will realize that enslaving another human being is wrong. A person who has truly experienced God’s grace will in turn be gracious towards others. That would be the Bible’s prescription for ending slavery.

That was a very good approach. Equal chances for becoming a slave. But what is the actual point of this thread is somewhat elusive to me.

 

[Gloone]

The slavery of the past few centuries was often based exclusively on skin color. In the United States, many black people were considered slaves because of their nationality; many slave owners truly believed black people to be inferior human beings.

Slave owners in America were both white and black. I have no idea what you are talking about but I thought I would just throw that in there for you.

Black Slave Owners

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Only the ascension of Jesus within can bring immortality. The Bible tells you how to do this. If you are hungry for it, the Holy Spirit will show you.

But what of those of us who have done much better since we quit being Christians? When I was a Christian, I had no ambitions or drive in life, and praying didn't really do much for me. But now that I control my own fate and destiny, my life situation has improved dramatically. I have even been getting straight A's in school for the first time since the first grade.
And what I find the Bible to be extremely offensive? Paul rubbed it in that women were created second, that Eve was deceived into sinning and Adam was not, and that women should shut the hell up, and be fully submissive to men and not teach them or be above them. Or that wives and daughters can be sold into slavery? Or that women are filth while on their very normal and natural period and everything a woman touches while on her period becomes unclean? What a way to help ease an unpleasant moment. What if I don't like the fact that all we can do is throw out an estimation of how many people God killed, but the big bad devil only killed 7 people with God's permission? What if I don't like "man shall not lay with man as he does woman" or "man shall not wear that which pertains unto a woman"? Homosexuality, bisexuality, and transgenderness occur naturally, and we have hard evidence that shows the damage done to these people if they repress their true selves.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

People die because they don't enter Heaven

So then by this statement, I can logically conclude that NO ONE enters Heaven.

 

[Jeremiah]

Slave owners in America were both white and black. I have no idea what you are talking about but I thought I would just throw that in there for you.

Black Slave Owners

Yes, blacks were involved with slavery. In fact black people ran the slave trade in Africa. They were trading other Africans to the Europeans on the Gold Coast. There were also Europeans slaves in colonial American and the Native Americans were made slaves as well. But eventually the blacks would get it the hardest.

In colonial American, where the majority were white, a white slave could escape, go to a different colony and blend right in. The Native American could escape back into the woods and join with friendly tribes. But the blacks had no where to turn, they stuck out in white colonies and if they ran into the woods the Native Americans met them with hostility. Many of the colonies would even pay Native Americans for the scalp of a runaway black slave.

They were removed from their homeland and had no where to run. They didn't know the land, they didn't speak English and because Africa had several languages, often they couldn't even speak to other African slaves. This made them much easier targets for slaves then the Native Americans. Blacks become the preferred slave of colonial America. And eventually, perhaps to try and rationalize their horrible treatment of blacks, the slave owners started to say that the blacks were a lesser race, that they were different on the inside, their organ were different, that they were black on the inside as well.

 

[tumbleweed41]

The desire for immortality is the ultimate example of selfishness.

 

[Jeremiah]

You are either looking for reasong to get out, or reasons to get in...here is the answer to your hang-up:

The Bible does not specifically condemn the practice of slavery. It gives instructions on how slaves should be treated (Deuteronomy 15:12-15; Ephesians 6:9; Colossians 4:1), but does not outlaw slavery altogether. Many see this as the Bible condoning all forms of slavery. What many fail to understand is that slavery in biblical times was very different from the slavery that was practiced in the past few centuries in many parts of the world. The slavery in the Bible was not based exclusively on race. People were not enslaved because of their nationality or the color of their skin. In Bible times, slavery was more a matter of social status. People sold themselves as slaves when they could not pay their debts or provide for their families. In New Testament times, sometimes doctors, lawyers, and even politicians were slaves of someone else. Some people actually chose to be slaves so as to have all their needs provided for by their masters.

The slavery of the past few centuries was often based exclusively on skin color. In the United States, many black people were considered slaves because of their nationality; many slave owners truly believed black people to be inferior human beings. The Bible most definitely does condemn race-based slavery. Consider the slavery the Hebrews experienced when they were in Egypt. The Hebrews were slaves, not by choice, but because they were Hebrews (Exodus 13:14). The plagues God poured out on Egypt demonstrate how God feels about racial slavery (Exodus 7-11). So, yes, the Bible does condemn some forms of slavery. At the same time, the Bible does seem to allow for other forms. The key issue is that the slavery the Bible allowed for in no way resembled the racial slavery that plagued our world in the past few centuries.

In addition, both the Old and New Testaments condemn the practice of “man-stealing” which is what happened in Africa in the 19th century. Africans were rounded up by slave-hunters, who sold them to slave-traders, who brought them to the New World to work on plantations and farms. This practice is abhorrent to God. In fact, the penalty for such a crime in the Mosaic Law was death: “Anyone who kidnaps another and either sells him or still has him when he is caught must be put to death” (Exodus 21:16). Similarly, in the New Testament, slave-traders are listed among those who are “ungodly and sinful” and are in the same category as those who kill their fathers or mothers, murderers, adulterers and perverts, and liars and perjurers (1 Timothy 1:8-10).

Another crucial point is that the purpose of the Bible is to point the way to salvation, not to reform society. The Bible often approaches issues from the inside out. If a person experiences the love, mercy, and grace of God by receiving His salvation, God will reform his soul, changing the way he thinks and acts. A person who has experienced God’s gift of salvation and freedom from the slavery of sin, as God reforms his soul, will realize that enslaving another human being is wrong. A person who has truly experienced God’s grace will in turn be gracious towards others. That would be the Bible’s prescription for ending slavery.

"The slavery of the past few centuries was often based exclusively on skin color."

That is not true, it was based on religion and nationality. The European slaves had it much better then African slaves or Native American slaves. They became a slave to paid off a debt, a crime or because they did it by choice for money. They were promised release after so long, and their well being was protected by laws. This was because they were born from a "Christian" nation. Because they were of Christendom they were protected, to some extent, by laws. This was not the case with Africans and Native Americans.

Back then if you were not born of Christendom then they did not have to treat you like a person. They didn't view Native Americans and Africans as people. At first it had little to do with the color of their skin but rather it was mainly because they were not of Christendom. The Europeans would use this an excuse to commit some of the most horrid crimes in the Americas history.

According to them it was legal to kill people not of Christendom, steal their food, enslave them without "just cause" and do just about anything you want because they were not of Christendom. They were not protected by "Christian" laws. That is the excuse they used to justify genocide on the Native Americans. That is how many cultures worked back then, if you were not born in the culture then you were not a real person, and the laws didn't always protect to you.

 

[Thesavorofpan]

Subconsciously you know this is true, but because of brainwashing, bad teaching from the mortals, and bad Bible translations homo sapiens are still putting up with death. Jesus heralded in John 8:51 He that keepeth my sayings shall never see death. It is laughable and typical that the moderators here had to close the thread "or review" entitled Immortality or Death. Here is what I stated:

Religion is as the string-quartet on the Titanic, trying to assuage the fears of those facing the inevitable...DEATH.

Religion is dead, so is most of what people call Spirituality.

Proverbs 14:12 There is way which seems right to a man, but the end thereof is death.

Only the ascension of Jesus within can bring immortality. The Bible tells you how to do this. If you are hungry for it, the Holy Spirit will show you.

:angel2:

Yes were all going to die. There's nothing we can do about that. But religion is not dead. As long as people need hope that there's something more to this after they die, then religion will be alive. I don't think even if the whole human race has an iq of 200 were always going to question whether or not there isn't something after death.

 

[BadBeast]

Subconsciously you know this is true, but because of brainwashing, bad teaching from the mortals, and bad Bible translations homo sapiens are still putting up with death. Jesus heralded in John 8:51 He that keepeth my sayings shall never see death. It is laughable and typical that the moderators here had to close the thread "or review" entitled Immortality or Death. Here is what I stated:

Religion is as the string-quartet on the Titanic, trying to assuage the fears of those facing the inevitable...DEATH.

Religion is dead, so is most of what people call Spirituality.

Proverbs 14:12 There is way which seems right to a man, but the end thereof is death.

Only the ascension of Jesus within can bring immortality. The Bible tells you how to do this. If you are hungry for it, the Holy Spirit will show you.

:angel2:

If (and that's a very big "if") this is the case, then the instructions must be beyond even the most committed Christians, because as far as I know, not one of them has actually managed not to die for significantly longer than anyone else.

 

[BruceDLimber]

On the contrary, EVERYONE goes on to the Next Life at death (the Next Life will last eternally), and those not already in a heavenly state (due to their own earlier choices and actions) are assisted by God eventually to draw spiritually near to Him (the definitio of Heaven)!

Peace,

Bruce

 

[Snowcat]

As is most often the case, those not agreeing with my thread, HAVE NO BIBLICAL REFERENCE TO BACK UP THEIR POSITION.

 

[waitasec]

As is most often the case, those not agreeing with my thread, HAVE NO BIBLICAL REFERENCE TO BACK UP THEIR POSITION.

why would we need a biblical reference?
wow...
you have given your reason over to a lazy habit by using the bible as the answer to everything...
try thinking for yourself...

had we been more knowledgeable about the invisible world (micro organisms)
or what causes volcanoes to erupt, earthquakes, diseases and how small we really
are in the universe, we wouldn't need a celectrial dictatorship to worship and
tell us what to do and to explain these mysteries with just an easy answer,
"god's ways are higher than ours".
that answer alone contradicts what is innate in man kind. it goes against
our very nature to question, doubt to search out for logic and reason
based on empirical evidence.
the mere fact that we made up a deity is because we have those
qualities in us (reason and logic) but we were lacking in knowledge.

 

[ellenjanuary]

As is most often the case, those not agreeing with my thread, HAVE NO BIBLICAL REFERENCE TO BACK UP THEIR POSITION.

Get behind me, satan!
Have you been referenced?