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Featured Peace & Security or Sudden Destruction?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by nPeace, Jan 28, 2019.

  1. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    The Jehovah's Witnesses excuse for the governing body flip-flopping is that they are really not prophets but are men chosen to reason from the scriptures.

    I think that to trust them to be true to Jehovah is contrary to what the Bible really teaches.

    1 Corinthians 4;4-5 4 For I am not conscious of anything against myself. But by this I am not proved righteous; the one who examines me is Jehovah.*+ 5 Therefore, do not judge+ anything before the due time, until the Lord comes. He will bring the secret things of darkness to light and make known the intentions of the hearts, and then each one will receive his praise from God.+

    But all Jehovah's Witnesses are being warned that they MUST judge the governing body members righteous.

    Psalm 143:2
    Do not bring Your servant into judgment, for no one alive is righteous before You.

    Except, of course, Jehovah's Witness governing body members. Really @nPeace?
     
  2. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    Where in the Bible is it taught that it is advisable to judge someone innocent?
     
  3. Oeste

    Oeste Well-Known Member

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    If so, this runs counter to what the Watchtower has published on the subject:

    "So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come? These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet? . . . This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian witnesses . . . Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a "prophet" of God. It is another thing to prove it," (Watchtower, Apr. 1, 1972, p. 197).​

    Of course, this is the same false prophet that warned us of 1914, 1925 and 1940 among other things. Later in the same Watchtower it chastises "Christendom" for joining the League and United Nations and as we all know, the Watchtower quietly joined the UN itself. In that sense, it was certainly "discreet".

    That is sage biblical advice @savagewind! It's certainly an Organization that appears amazingly willing and able to stretch a measuring rod against anyone not themselves.
     
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  4. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Wow @Oeste you go all the way back to 1920 WT.... and I am sure beyond. You could show me things that probably aren't in the 1993 Proclaimers Book.
    All of that literature could probably fill - not just one, but a few libraries in a few of our Kingdoms Halls. Much of it is old and useless.
    However, you seem to find it useful. In fact, it seems you find it extremely [​IMG] useful.
    If it makes you happy, then by all means, enjoy it.
    Do you make it a part of your sermon, or your ministry to God?
    While you busy yourself with that JWs are busy doing the Lord's work, aren't they.... preaching and teaching the good news of the kingdom of God in every land, and making disciples of people of all nations. Isn't that what our Lord and master Jesus Christ commanded, and said would be a sign fulfilling the end times?

    Thinking of you looking through and searching those publication to find what you can to fault JWs, made me think of people who search the Bible to find fault with it, and I was thinking of apostle John's words, as well as Solomon's.
    John 21:25 There are also, in fact, many other things that Jesus did, which if ever they were written in full detail, I suppose the world itself could not contain the scrolls written.
    Ecclesiastes 12:12-14
    12 As for anything besides these, my son, be warned: To the making of many books there is no end, and much devotion to them is wearisome to the flesh. 13 The conclusion of the matter, everything having been heard, is: Fear the true God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole obligation of man. 14 For the true God will judge every deed, including every hidden thing, as to whether it is good or bad.

    What a beautiful book the Bible is, yet it contains just a fraction of all the things said and done, by faithful men and women, and children of God, and the masses of mankind are blind to its treasures - yet millions all over the world benefit from what it says...
    People can see the evidence for themselves, as to whom these millions are. No one has to point a finger at them, in order for them to see. It's clear.

    What a united, peaceful group they make - united in teaching, in purpose, in love - not war. Yet the masses of mankind are swept up in nationality, and patriotism... political strife, disunity, and confusion. Yet it is evident to many people whom as an organization, stands out in the crowd, as different.

    Yes. People will bash the Bible. They will bash the teachings of this group. They will launch their attacks on both, but what does the evidence show? What's enduring despite outright attacks?
    The evidence speaks for itself, does it not?

    So once again, I'll put it to you, since I noticed, you decided to just pick one to "shoot" at....
    You never did hit anything either, since the one you picked - #7 stood it's ground firmly without flinching.
    Do you know why?
    Jesus said, "...and everyone who is living and exercises faith in me will never die at all. Do you believe this?" John 11:26
    Can you name one person in Jesus' day who did not die? Are Jesus' words to be scoffed at as well?

    I'll repeat.
    Yes. Since the GB of JWs has proven themselves to be the faithful and discrete discreet (Got it right this time ) slave... of course.
    After all, they aren't telling me something different to the basic doctrines of Christ, namely that 1. Jesus Christ is not God Almighty who came down to earth, to die; 2. We do not have an immortal soul that goes on living after death - which 3. will, if bad, be roasted forever in a burning pit, or 4. will go to heaven if it is good; 5. There is no heaven or hell destination, but 6. only 144,000 go to heaven to be kings and priest with Christ, while 7. multitudes now living will not die, but will live into the coming new world under Christ's reign, and 8. will welcome the millions who will be resurrected to life in paradise; 9. The holy spirit is not a person; 10. All of Jesus' followers must preach the message of the good news of God's Kingdom, to people of every nation and language; 11. Christ's followers must be united in love, and 12. be no part of the world - hence to share in wars does not demonstrate unity and love, and separation from the world...

    Give me an alternative... and you've got me. :)
    I'm sorry to hear about your relative.
     
  5. Oeste

    Oeste Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that was my point…to show the stuff you taught back then, at the closest point of Jesus’ examination and approval, is not the same stuff you teach now. If we were to drop any Witness from back then into our current day they would be appalled at how quickly the Organization went “apostate”.

    In other words, we can only believe a fraction of what you told us 99 years ago, which means 99 year from now, in the year 2118, we can only believe a fraction of what you tell us today.

    Scripture tells us this is not something to expect when guided by the Spirit but it's exactly what we can expect when guided by men:

    Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming. (Ephesians 4:14)​

    I think it interesting (and correct) that the Watchtower refers to their this tossed wave with the nautical term "tacking". It was clearly indicated in their teachings on Sodom and Gomorrah.

    Yes, I agree, but again, it’s interesting you refer to your former "truths" as “old and useless”. This goes back to the point made earlier. That is, what you teach today will be considered "old and useless" 99 years from now.

    Most certainly! I consider them educational, instructive, and eye-opening for anyone considering the Watchtower.

    Not “happy”…”informed” would be a better word.

    Not in the manner of the Watchtower. For instance, the idea that my kids should limit their contact, or not play with the kids next door because they're the "wrong religion" and "Armageddon is coming" would never enter my mind.

    However when witnessing to Witnesses I think such things are essential. It goes to show that "the truth"...whatever "current version" they claim to have now...is much more tethered to the latest Watchtower article or website than scripture.

    I’ve never understood why JW’s believe they are the only church doing this when virtually every church on the planet evangelizes. The planet did not go to sleep pagan one day and wake up Christian the next. Christianity would ceased to exist long ago if we waited on Jehovah Witnesses to come along.

    When your Organization searches through Christian publications to find fault with Christians, does it also make you think of people who search the Bible to find fault? Or is your measuring rod only applied to others?

    And why wouldn’t you encourage others to examine their bibles and find fault with it? If scripture cannot stand on its own then there is something horribly wrong and we are following the wrong God. My faith was strengthened, not diminished, precisely because I attempted to find scriptural "faults".

    I couldn’t imagine following any religion that discourages or fears scrutiny. If you have the full armor of God, you need not fear skeptics.

    See? We can agree on things and one of the most important things at that.

    Don't forget religionism, described as an excessive religious ardour or zeal. extreme piety. discrimination or prejudice on the basis of religion or religious beliefs.

    Politics,and racism are two other biggies, but you'll see mostly religionism on this forum.

    However the bible teaches us to unite through Christ, and not through nationalism, patriotism, religionism, politics, race, or other "identities".

    The bigots always claim they stand out based on their nationality, political fervor, religion, race or other such thing. It is better to put our credence in Christ than any other form of identity.

    Look at the Pharaohs. They actually thought their Order kept the Law. They were easily spotted in the public square, and renowned for their ability to appear spotless and undefiled before the world, tithing even a tenth of their spices. They were keen on seeing the sin in other, but for some reason could never see the sin of their own. They considered themselves "different" and "not like other men" (Luke 8:9-14). Jesus spoke truly when he said: “For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

    Until Jesus comes, the skeptics will always bash our bible. Not much we can about that.

    I’m sure the Pharisees thought Jesus was bashing their group when all he wanted was for them to apologize and repent…something the Watchtower never has and still refuses to do.

    For example, from The Finished Mystery:
    1. The "valiant men" of Nathum 2:3 are an engineer and a fireman. (p.93)
    2. "The chariots rage in the streets, they jostle one another" of Natham 2:4 are the clanking and the bumping of railway cars. (p.93)
    3. The "voice from heaven" of Revelation 18:4 is the voice of The Watchtower Society. (p.276)
    IMO, non-biblical teachings taught as "truths" were never scriptural to begin with and should be bashed. Those that taught them, especially those holding themselves out as "teachers" have a duty to apologize and repent.

    Not sure what you mean by "both". Truth interwoven with a few lies is not "truth". Here is what the bible teaches on the subject:

    "A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough." Galatians 5:9

    In other words, just one false teaching can corrupt the entire gospel message and we've already demonstrated quite a few as verified when your Organization abandoned them.

    The evidence certainly does, but this is why we as Christians must bring it up. Such evidence will remain until the Organization apologizes and repents…and then it will be forgotten.

    Until then, the Organization remains in its sin.

    But I don't think we should worry much about your Organization apologizing and/or repenting. It should be remarkably easy for an Organization constantly boasting how “humble” they are.
     
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  6. Oeste

    Oeste Well-Known Member

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    NOTHING about the "Millions now living will never die!" has "stood its ground" nPeace. The entire teaching has been abandoned.

    Can we believe Jesus? Yes!
    Can we believe John 11:26? Yes!
    Can we believe the Watchtower? No!
    Should we ever confuse the two? No!

    You're "proof texting" again. Read the verse before it:

    Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;

    As we can see, despite your efforts to the contrary, the words of the bible and the words of the Watchtower are not the same:

    ScreenCap102.jpg

    The Watchtower’s “Millions now living will never die!”(p.98) shows it was based on the false prophesy of 1925 and not on John 11:25-26!

    It is simply another false prophesy in a long line of false prophecies, which include 1914, and for which the Watchtower Organization remains brazenly and unapologetically unrepentant.


    There is no other “alternative”. Christians come to Christ for salvation, not to Organizations.

    Romans 10:

    9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

    10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.​

    No mention about declaring Watchtower membership here

    Matthew 19:

    25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”

    26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”​

    It’s simply impossible for Christians to be saved by an Organization, its members or its doctrines.

    Philippians 3

    8 What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christ

    9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith.

    10 I want to know Christ—yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death,

    11 and so, somehow, attaining to the resurrection from the dead.​

    It is our faith in Christ and not our religion or a self-perceived righteousness that gains us salvation.

    Thank you @nPeace. We may disagree on a mountain of things, but things like this mean a lot.
     
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  7. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    @Oeste I'm sorry, but the only persons besides JWs that I have seen at my door, are Mormons - apparently preferring now not to be addressed by that name.
    However, there are major differences. For one thing, they usually try to direct attention primarily to Joseph Smith, and Book of Mormon. (Not sure if that changed since I have not seen them in ages) I never heard any message about the kingdom of God.
    They do travel in pairs - both males and females. :thumbsup:

    On the other hand JWs go in pairs, from village to village; town to town; door to door; in every part of the world, declaring the good news of the Kingdom of God... consistently. Do you ever miss them? Can you say, you have not seen them in the neighborhood for ages?
    Despite engaging in every other possible avenue of spreading that message, the way Jesus directed his followers, and the example he set, is a trademark of JWs.
    To me, this is just one mark of true Christianity - following Jesus example, and teachings.
    I don't know how you see things, but if you are going to tell me that Jesus' method, and message of spreading the good news of the kingdom, is outdated, then you'll have to show me that. Otherwise I might get the impression you would rather we follow your lead - whatever that is... Perhaps holding the hand of apostates, and allowing them to lead you, while you happily go along. Is that it?
    Sorry for those who get stuck on small 100 year old sprinkles.
    Imagine a man who refuses to leave his house to go to work because of a small drizzle of rain - not a downpour, but drizzles.

    If you recall, many persons studied the scriptures, and from what they learned, were moved to reject the use of images, relics, and crosses, oppose pilgrimages to obtain absolution, have little regard for the authority of the pope due to belief that all bishops were equal, reject the doctrine of transubstantiation of the Eucharist, reject doctrines, and traditions, such as infant baptism, the erecting of churches and the veneration of crosses, the doctrine of transubstantiation and prayers for the dead, among other unscriptural teachings.

    These men were bold enough to oppose the authority of their time, and be labeled heretic, formally denying the core doctrines of the "Church"..
    They were not perfect, so they didn't get everything right.
    I see this as no different men who later in search for truth, studied scripture, and reject unscriptural doctrine.
    C.T. Russell, used practically all his financial assets to spread glimmers of truth along with other interested ones. Others followed, and spread the message. Now here we are - spreading the message.
    Jesus' method and message still works.

    So right, you have nothing alternative to to offer. Nothing worthwhile, that is. The other things I pointed out, are also scripturally supported.
    United in teaching, and love, in every part of the world; Politically neutral; as well as organized in the nearly 120,000 congregation worldwide.

    Where is your "army"? When will I see you and your "swarm of locust" working unitedly in my neighborhood?
     
  8. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    The futurist interpretation of rrevelation was developed by a Jesuit priest in the 17th century.
     
  9. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Huh?
     
  10. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Martin Luther began preaching that Rome was the Whore of Babylon and the Pope was the antichrist so a Priest named Ribera was commissioned to change that. (Jesuit Ribera, about A.D. 1580, is regarded as the founder of the futurist interpretation)

    It really didn't catch on.. Then in the 1830 a renegade preacher named Darby began teaching the futurist view.. That was picked up by Cyrus Scofield and published by Samuel Untermyer who was the leading Zionist in the US and fundraiser for the 6 million starving Jews of Europe.


    (John Nelson Darby (18 November 1800 – 29 April 1882) was an Anglo-Irish Bible teacher, one of the influential figures among the original Plymouth Brethren and the founder of the Exclusive Brethren. He is considered to be the father of modern Dispensationalism and Futurism. Pre-tribulation rapture theology was popularized extensively in the 1830s by John Nelson Darby and the Plymouth Brethren, and further popularized in the United States in the early 20th century by the wide circulation of the Scofield Reference Bible. )

    It still didn't catch on until the Dust Bowl and the Great Depression during the tent revivals. It appealed to the poor and uneducated.

    Then in the 1970s is surged with Hal Lindsey's book Late Great Planet Earth.. followed by Lahay's Left Behind series.
     
  11. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Can you explain the relevance of all of this?
    Which post are you responding to?

    I'm not sure, if you are referring to the Catholic Church as Rome. Are you?

    Whore of Babylon - Wikipedia
    Many Biblical scholars believe that "Babylon" is a metaphor for the pagan Roman Empire at the time it persecuted Christians.

    Historicist interpreters commonly used the phrase "Whore of Babylon" to refer to the Catholic Church. Reformation writers from Martin Luther (1483–1546) (who wrote On the Babylonian Captivity of the Church), John Calvin (1509–1564), and John Knox (1510–1572) (who wrote The First Blast of the Trumpet Against the Monstruous Regiment of Women) taught this association.

    Most early Protestant Reformers believed, and the modern Seventh-day Adventist Church teaches, that in Bible prophecy a woman represents a church.

    Seventh-day Adventist view
    Seventh-day Adventists believe that the whore of Babylon represents the fallen state of traditional Christianity, especially in the Catholic Church. Other churches (predominantly Protestant) are generally considered either part of the harlot or her daughters. Adventists further hold that the persecution of the "saints" in Revelation 17:6 represents the persecution of believers who rejected the doctrines introduced by the Roman Catholic Church and were based on pagan Roman beliefs. The Persecution during the Middle Ages of anyone who opposed the Catholic Church, especially by the Inquisition, and the persecution of the Waldensians and the Huguenots are cited as examples.

    Seventh-day Adventists interpret Revelation 17:18 as a prophecy of the false church, which has power over the kings of the earth. They consider the pope to be in apostasy for allowing pagan rituals, beliefs and ceremonies to come into the church.

    Jehovah's Witnesses view
    Jehovah's Witnesses, whose early teachings were strongly influenced by Adventism but have since diverged, believe that the Whore of Babylon represents "the world empire of false religion", referring to all other religious groups including, but not limited to, Christendom. Jehovah's Witnesses literature frequently refers to the "Great Harlot" of Babylon and the subsequent attack on her by the political powers, signaling the beginning of the "great tribulation". They believe that the empire of false religion has persecuted God's people, and that "false religion" has committed "fornication" with the world's political and commercial elements, based on their interpretation of Revelation 17:1, 2.
     
  12. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Its important to know why you believe what you believe.. JW and the Adventists are simply teaching Jesuit futurism

    According to scripture the Whore of Babylon is Israel because she played the harlot and went a whoring after other gods.. Scripture says so repeatedly.

    The Moody Bible Institute and the Dallas Theological Seminary have strongly supported the teachings of John Nelson Darby, and this has continued to fuel Futurism’s growth.

    Then in the 1970s, Pastor Hal Lindsey, a graduate of Dallas Theological Seminary, released his blockbuster book The Late Great Planet Earth. This 177-page, easy-to-read volume brought Futurism to the masses of American Christianity, and beyond.

    The New York Times
    labeled it ”The number one best-seller of the decade”. Over 30 million copies have been sold, and it has been translated into over 30 languages.

    Through The Late Great Planet Earth, Jesuit Futurism took a strong hold over the Protestant Christian world.

    The book and the series Left Behind is now teaching much of the same Jesuit Futurism as Francisco Ribera.
     
  13. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    I guess nowadays, it is commonplace to categorize everyone under a particular name, regardless of whether persons fit that category, or whether the term applies or not.
    I guess in a case where persons insist on this, it may be best to just allow them that freedom, although there are cases where persons get into trouble for that.
    These names mean nothing to me.
    Besides that, it doesn't even represent what JWs, and likely SDAs believe.

    According to Wikipedia, JWs are not by a long shot teaching Jesuit futurism.
    Francisco Ribera - Wikipedia
    Christian eschatology - Wikipedia
    Futurism (Christianity) - Wikipedia

    Perhaps it might be better for one to understand what is Jesuit futurism, or clearly understand what JWs teach.
    There is quite a difference, as far as I can see.
     
  14. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Evangelicals and fundamentalists have been heavily influenced by futurism which is a VERY recent doctrine.

    So NOW we have two tribulations and one of them is the "Great Tribulation".

    We also have the rapture and the pretrib rapture as well as the belief that the tribulation is world wide.
     
  15. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    We have interpretation and interpretations... thousands of different ones.
    We also have traditions, and doctrines, again thousands of them.
    We still have the Bible, which I believe contains the truth, and we have Jesus words.
    Matthew 7:21-24
    21 “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’
    24 “Therefore, everyone who hears these sayings of mine and does them will be like a discreet man who built his house on the rock.

    Revelation 22:17  And the spirit and the bride keep on saying, “Come!” and let anyone hearing say, “Come!” and let anyone thirsting come; let anyone who wishes take life’s water free.
     
  16. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Mark 13:14 New International Version (NIV) 14 “When you see ‘the abomination that causes desolation’ standing where it does not belong—let the reader understand—then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains."

    The text of Matthew 24 tells us the tribulation was local not global. It was confined to Judea (Matt. 24:16). The people could escape the conflagration by fleeing to the mountains on foot.
     
  17. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Futurism originated with the Jesuit priest.
     
  18. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    It is evident there would be a local tribulation.
    Tell me about this also.

    Matthew 24
    3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? [What things? We know these things are referring to what Jesus said in verse 2, right?] and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? [What coming? :shrug: What end of what world? :shrug:]

    4 And Jesus answered and said unto them...

    21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

    22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
    [No flesh??? The elite??? What are these? :shrug:]

    Please explain.
     
  19. Oeste

    Oeste Well-Known Member

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    And yet there are over one billion Christians worldwide. Is this because Christians simply refused to go around knocking on doors, or is it through the activity of the Spirit?

    I can't imagine Christians knocking on doors carrying expensive papyrus or paper that they would leave with homeowners.

    Ancient WT copyright.png

    My conclusion is that it a work of the Spirit.

    Only after Christians have already been there and never door to door during persecution. In fact, you consider it unreasonable to go door to door where persecution exists. How many JW’s go "door to door" in Saudi Arabia, Yemen and Syria? How many of your pioneers have lined up to sneak across the North Korean border to preach "door to door" because "the need is great"? How many are in the mountains of Afghanistan, going "door to door"?

    It seems to me that "door to door" is more of a perceived bragging right for the WT than the mark of a Christian. If "door to door" were as important as you now claim it is, I would expect to see reports of thousands, if not tens of thousands of JW's in prison or being held hostage by terrorists in hostile lands. Instead, the current number of Witnesses imprisoned, tortured, or killed due to their faith are proportionately much lower than that of Christianity. Sources: 1 2 3

    I"m not saying this to diminish anyone's suffering here, but I am saying is that this should not be brandished as some sort of marketing tool or one-upmanship at the expense of fellow Christians.

    Going door to door is a great way to recognize JW’s, census workers, mail carriers and salesmen. The bible never mentions it as a way to recognize Christians.

    What the bible does say is that Christians went from house to house....a reference to the "church houses" of the early church, much like we see in the persecuted churches of China.

    House Church in Shunyi, Beijing.JPG
    Source:
    By Huang Jinhui - Own work, CC BY-SA 4.0,
    File:People singing chant.JPG - Wikimedia Commons

    I agree it is a trademark of JW’s (where it is convenient and safe). It's not a "trademark" of Christians and not an “example” that Jesus set. It's more the minimum activity members are expected to engage in if they wish to retain/obtain honor and/or privileges within the Watchtower Organization.

    The idea that Jesus commanded his followers to spread as “truth” a message that isn't quite true by knocking on doors is not a "mark of true Christianity". Ditto for any failure to apologize and repent.

    Not outdated, just unscriptural. We were commanded to preach, not to knock on doors of the already converted. We were commanded to announce that the kingdom of God was at hand, not to speculate on dates.

    For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. (Romans 14:17)​

    You'll notice there is nothing about "door to door" here. Nothing about field service hours and certainly nothing about boasting.

    Hasn't your Organization held your hand, as it leads you, ever more apostate, from it's earlier teachings??? Why would you constantly look for a plank in my eye when you have one in your own? Yours is the only Organization I know where today's "truth" is tomorrow's heresy.

    Not all falsehood dies on the soil. Some "sprinkles" take root and flourish. So it doesn't matter how old the sprinkles are, it matters how untrue the sprinkles were. And if your Organization hasn't been true with "small" things, why should we conclude they'll be true with the large? Do you have scripture to support such an outrageous allegation?

    But I’m not looking for a "Sorry" from you, I’m looking for a "Sorry" from your Organization. Your organization has placed words in the mouth of the Almighty that God never spoke, the classic trademark not of "humble men" but of false prophets, and until it apologizes and repents it will remain in its sin.
     
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  20. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    That is not exactly true in every case. Matthew 10:6-15, "go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel,.. preach the kingdom of heaven is at hand...heal the sick, raise the dead. do not acquire gold, or silver,.. or a bag for your journey, or even two tunics, or sandals,.... inquire who is worthy... abide there". If someone comes into your town, and heals the sick, and raises the dead, you might pay attention. And you don't need "papyrus" to preach, "the kingdom of heaven is at hand", or to raise the dead. Times may have changed, and you now need to carry a sword, but the extra weight shouldn't keep one from raising the dead or healing the sick. The message is simple, the faith to carry it out, might not be so. Plus, when you carry the false message of the false gospel of grace, the weight might be too much to even save the walking dead.
     
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