Paul vs Jesus

[metis]

Paul's theology was actually quite brilliant even if one doesn't agree with it. However, I question it a lot, but that's just me.

In Acts, Paul converses face-to-face with the Twelve three times, plus there's other communications with them through letters. If Paul was so out of touch with Jesus' message, why would the Twelve want anything to do with him, especially considering his past?

Now, don't get me wrong as I do believe he went well beyond anything that Jesus taught in many areas because he was largely dealing with the application of Jesus' teachings.

 

[Fool]

I don't see any problem with Paul.
What problem are you referring to?

You would first need to establish there actually was a problem with Paul before we could begin to talk about what caused it.

paul promoted idolatry vs recognizing god in others. jesus recognized his fellow beings as gods.

 

[Rise]

paul promoted idolatry vs recognizing god in others. jesus recognized his fellow beings as gods.

I invite you to provide Scripture you believe proves your claims.

Because a closer examination of Scripture will reveal there is no inconsistency between what Jesus and Paul taught concerning the nature of God and man's relation to Him.

Nor will you be able to use Scripture to prove Paul promoted anything resembling the Biblical definition of "idolatry".

Afterall, we can't talk about a "problem" as though it existed if you can't first establish that it was ever actually a problem in reality.

 

[Fool]

I invite you to provide Scripture you believe proves your claims.

Because a closer examination of Scripture will reveal there is no inconsistency between what Jesus and Paul taught concerning the nature of God and man's relation to Him.

Nor will you be able to use Scripture to prove Paul promoted anything resembling the Biblical definition of "idolatry".

Afterall, we can't talk about a "problem" as though it existed if you can't first establish that it was ever actually a problem in reality.

John 10:34 NIV Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’?

That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth (Philippians 2:10).

 

[Muffled]

was paul's problem, the apostle, that he couldn't make the oneness connection to god, like jesus and jesus' 12; when he made the other apostles his equals?

I believe having a spiritual connection to Jesus is almost as good as having a physical presence of Jesus. Paul didn't get to witness Jesus doing miracles in others but did have Jesus work a miracle on him.

 

[Muffled]

Going out on a limb on this one...

Paul's problem was: He didn't want to be Jewish anymore?

I believe Paul was comfortable with his Jewish background.

 

[Muffled]

That's not Jewish. Not that it's bad or wrong. It's just different.

I believe it is not so different. The prophets are a decent foreshadowing.

 

[sojourner]

was paul's problem, the apostle, that he couldn't make the oneness connection to god, like jesus and jesus' 12; when he made the other apostles his equals?

I think the problem is not Paul, but the post-Paul reaction. Here's an example of what I mean:

A small cave cut into the rock was discovered in 1906. The cave is situated on the northern slope of Bulbul Dag above the ruins of ancient Ephesus. To the right of the cave entrance, beneath layers of plaster, Karl Herold (Austrian Archaeological Institute) uncovered two 6th-century images of a female Theoklia and a male Paul. They are the same height, indicating that, iconographically, they're of equal importance. They both have their right hands raised in a teaching gesture. Therefore, they're iconographically of equal authority. Some later person scratched out the eyes and erased the upraised hand of Theoklia. if the eyes and hands of both had been disfigured, it would simply be a case of iconoclastic antagonism. As it is, with only the female disfigured, the original imagery and defaced imagery represent a fundamental clash of theology. An earlier image where female and male are equally authoritative apostolic figures has been replaced by one in which the male is apostolic and authoritative and the female is blinded and silenced. The cave's name, "St. Paul's Grotto," speaks to the continuation of the negation of male-female equality once painted on its walls.

Paul's theology has been overwritten by later, post-Paul and anti-Paul theology. We mistakenly refer to that later theology as Paul's. The problem is that the gospels were written later than much of Paul's writings. So the Jesus that we see is a later interpretation. Paul's theology is usually much closer to "original" than that depicted in the gospels. So, it's not that Paul doesn't agree with Jesus, it's that some later depictions of Jesus disagree with an earlier Paul.

 

[Rise]

John 10:34 NIV Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’?

That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth (Philippians 2:10).

You would first need to explain why you think those verses are in contradiction with each other before I can provide Scripture, evidence, or reasoned arguments that demonstrate they actually are not.

I can't offer a counter to an argument you haven't yet made. An assertion of truth is not the same as an argument. Asserting those verses are contradictory is one thing, but in order to be making a point that one can respond to you must also provide some kind evidence or reasoned argumentation which you believe demonstrates why they are contradictory. Then we can deal with whether or not your evidence or reasons are valid by examining the rest of what the NT has to say (especially what Jesus and Paul have to say).

I think you are taking for granted the assumption that they are obviously contradictory. But they are not, on their face, obviously contradictory. They are only made contradictory if you read them with certain assumptions - assumptions which could easily not be true. We have to put those assumptions to the test by comparing them with other Scripture to see how they hold up to the entirety of what Jesus, Paul, and the other apostles of the NT had to say. But we can't begin to know what assumptions you are reading into those verses if you don't first tell us why you think they are contradictory.