Paul - An Apostle?

[nPeace]

It is all through scripture.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

It is all through scripture that Jesus is not God.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

 

[nPeace]

Scripture to me is more in line with 2 Timothy 3:15, the "sacred writings" that Paul read from since childhood, which would not include the writings of Paul. Paul was a chosen "shepherd" by the Lord God to "pasture" the "flock doomed for slaughters" (Zechariah 11:7). Well, one can follow Paul, a false prophet over the cliff to "destruction", or they can turn away from their sins and follow the narrow path (Matthw 7:13-23). Now anyone who was in their ignorance, and haven't heard the truth, and then hears the truth, and continues down the wide path to "destruction", their blood is on their own heads, for their ignorance is of their own choosing. They can hold on to their lifelong indoctrinations, or they can turn away from them.

How is it you refer to Paul's words, when you think he is of the Devil? Do you think he is being truthful in the parts you agree with? Why?

Since the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, and Luke, were available, as well as the book of Acts, before Paul wrote his letters to Timothy, do you think Paul considered those book "holy scriptures"? Why, or Why not?

 

[Triumph]

Saul was not a believer, and so, he was not expected by Jesus, to forgive anyone.
In fact, Jesus expected that behavior, from Saul, as well as all those who did not know his father.
(John 16:1-4) 1 “I have said these things to you so that you may not be stumbled. 2 Men will expel you from the synagogue. In fact, the hour is coming when everyone who kills you will think he has offered a sacred service to God. 3 But they will do these things because they have not come to know either the Father or me. 4 Nevertheless, I have told you these things so that when the hour for them to happen arrives, you will remember that I told them to you.. . .

(Matthew 24:9) “Then people will hand you over to tribulation and will kill you, and you will be hated by all the nations on account of my name.

Don't you at least read the Gospels? Why don't you know this?

That is why he forgave those his murderers.
(Luke 23:34) . . .Jesus was saying: “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.” . . .

When Saul came to know - Jesus let him know - then Saul's stopped fighting against God.

You didn't answer my questions.
Please answer the questions.
Do you believe that Jesus forgives sinners who act in ignorance?
Do you believe Jesus commands that you do the same?
Does your father in heaven forgive you, if you do not forgive others?

God will forgive even people that murder if they are repentant of the murder. Paul was never repentant for killing Jesus. Paul tells us he was a killer of Christians but never shows any remorse or repentance over it, Paul just tells us he forgets about them.
Notice the response of God after Jesus asked God to forgive people that did not know what they were doing. It was not positive showing those sinners would be forgiven because Jesus asked him to forgive them. God showed expressions of rejecting even the thought of forgiving them, showing the world darkness and a storm and an earthquake. No voice of God came from heaven proclaiming God is pleased with the murder of Jesus. God did express acceptance at the baptism of Jesus praising him. God did not praise Jesus for hanging on the cross because God accepts no blood sacrifices and never did and is not going to forgive people that wanted Jesus to die. Jesus said go and learn I desire mercy and not sacrifice but Paul has no mercy for Jesus and wants no one to have mercy on Jesus. Paul wants you to agree to sacrifice Jesus without any mercy. Following Paul is agreeing to kill an innocent man without repentance for it and that is an unforgivable deadly sin. Paul still murders people by destroying their souls leading them down the wrong path away from the truth of God.

 

[MyM]

It is all through scripture.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

No it is not. SHOW ME where JESUS said I am God, worship me.

 

[Triumph]

It is the Lord God who forgives, and listens to the prayers of the righteous. of whom Yeshua was one. Your noted quote was Yeshua asking his Father to forgive those who don't know what they are doing. No one but God can forgive sins. The foundational stone/rock is justice and righteousness (Isaiah 28:16-17). If someone backs into my car, and causes damage, due to "ignorance" (lack of due care), then I can let them go without paying me for the damage, or I can ask them to donate to the hungry, or make them pay for the damages. How I judge them is how I will be judged. I cannot forgive their sins. The best I can do, is like in your example, ask God to forgive them, but if I am a sinner, as "Christians" profess to be, then God will not listen to my prayer anyway. We are at a time when justice and even righteousness are not even understood, but that time is going to pass (Malachi 3:18). If one wants to have God hear their prayers, they will have to turn from sin (wickedness) to righteousness (Ezekiel 18:21). As for Paul, the shepherd called "Favor", he was "annihilated" by the "Lord my God" (Zechariah 11:8 & 10). As for Paul's followers, those with the mark of the beast with two horns like a lamb, Constantine (Rev 13), the establisher of the Roman Christian church, they will have to drink from the cup of God's wrath (Rev 14:10 & 18:4), and keep their doctor appointments. Paul died, and despite what Paul and the Serpent (Genesis 3:4) has told you, "every one will die" at least once (Jeremiah 31:30).

New King James Version Ezekiel 18:21
“But if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die.

You are misunderstanding what the symbolic Beast with 2 horns like a lamb means. The Beast is WAR and the 2 horns represent the militaries of opposing sides of war both claiming the right to kill the other side because only they are innocent. Both sides of war claim righteousness with the other side having no right to life for opposing them.
People worship the Beast because they agree to support it with money and weapons, are willing to sacrifice their children to fight in the War and they pray their side of war will win killing the other side like a sacrificed lamb so their claim of righteousness prevails.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It's obvious because he allowed people to worship him for one. You can certainly choose to believe he was only pretending to be God if you want to reject scripture entirely, but there's no doubt that he made the claim.

I do not recall any such verses. There are verses that I know of where they can be interpreted that he is God and there are verses where it appears that he is claiming not to be God.

Also there are at least four "L" possibilities. Do you remember C.S. Lewis, the author that was also a Christian. He came up with three: Liar, Lunatic, or Lord. He made a fairly good case for Lord. But the forgot the most obvious one. "Legend". That appears to be far more likely. The problem is not me "rejecting scriptures entirely". The problem is that the burden of proof belongs upon believers and they consistently fail at showing that their is any validity to scripture are all.

 

[nPeace]

Happy to speak with you.
Jesus was already dead, crucified when Peter was telling people this
Acts:2//38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Peter was not telling people the death of Jesus removed their sins. He was not telling people that the death of Jesus gave people the Holy Ghost.
Peter was saying only water baptism removes sin because Jesus commanded belief in it. Peter had learned what "I desire mercy and not sacrifice" means.
4! Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

Is the doctrine of Paul state water baptism is for the remission of sin? No, Paul's doctrine is killing Jesus removes your sin. If people follow Paul they are not following Jesus or Peter.

1 Corinthians 15:17
And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins."
Well, that is not true because it is water baptism that removes sin. The resurrection of Jesus has nothing to do with our sin removal.
It does assure us that life after death is granted to our savior. Jesus promised to return for his water baptized disciples.

Paul upholds the laws of Moses but Jesus was teaching against believing in those 613 laws because Moses invented them not God.
The temple priests arrested disciple Stephen because Stephen was preaching doctrine against the Jews.
came upon him, and caught him, and brought him to the council,
Acts 6/13 And set up false witnesses, which said, This man ceaseth not to speak blasphemous words against this holy place, and the law:
14 For we have heard him say, that this Jesus of Nazareth shall destroy this place, and shall change the customs which Moses delivered us."
Jesus was destroying the temple by leading people away from it into a new religion. Jesus was teaching against Mosaic blood sacrifice laws and was changing it with the true laws of God.
Paul leads people right back into temple beliefs and acceptance of Mosaic blood sacrifice for sin laws.

God forgives sins based on what?

What did all of this mean?
(Leviticus 4:16-20) ...he will pour the rest of its blood at the base of the altar of burnt offering. He is to do to the bull just as he did to the other bull of the sin offering. That is how he will do it, and the priest will make atonement for them, and they will be forgiven.
Leviticus 4:30, 31 ; Leviticus 5:9, 10

(Leviticus 17:10-12) 10 “‘If any man of the house of Israel or any foreigner who is residing in your midst eats any sort of blood, I will certainly set my face against the one who is eating the blood, and I will cut him off from among his people.

11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I myself have given it on the altar for you to make atonement for yourselves, because it is the blood that makes atonement by means of the life in it. ​

12 That is why I have said to the Israelites: “None of you should eat blood, and no foreigner who is residing in your midst should eat blood.”

...for this means my ‘blood of the covenant,’ which is to be poured out in behalf of many for forgiveness of sins.
- Jesus (Matthew 26:28)​

Seems clear to me, that blood was required to atone for sins. Since the blood represents life, and it was the life of all mankind that Adam forfeited when he sinned.
This agree... or should I say, Paul agrees with God's teaching on this.
(Ephesians 1:7) By means of him we have the release by ransom through the blood of that one, yes, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his undeserved kindness.

(Hebrews 9:22) Yes, according to the Law nearly all things are cleansed with blood, and unless blood is poured out no forgiveness takes place.

Yes. Paul is teaching what is scripture. That's opposite to you.

 

[nPeace]

Happy to speak with you.
Jesus was already dead, crucified when Peter was telling people this
Acts:2//38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Peter was not telling people the death of Jesus removed their sins. He was not telling people that the death of Jesus gave people the Holy Ghost.
Peter was saying only water baptism removes sin because Jesus commanded belief in it. Peter had learned what "I desire mercy and not sacrifice" means.
4! Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

Is the doctrine of Paul state water baptism is for the remission of sin? No, Paul's doctrine is killing Jesus removes your sin. If people follow Paul they are not following Jesus or Peter.

1 Corinthians 15:17
And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins."
Well, that is not true because it is water baptism that removes sin. The resurrection of Jesus has nothing to do with our sin removal.
It does assure us that life after death is granted to our savior. Jesus promised to return for his water baptized disciples.

Paul upholds the laws of Moses but Jesus was teaching against believing in those 613 laws because Moses invented them not God.
The temple priests arrested disciple Stephen because Stephen was preaching doctrine against the Jews.
came upon him, and caught him, and brought him to the council,
Acts 6/13 And set up false witnesses, which said, This man ceaseth not to speak blasphemous words against this holy place, and the law:
14 For we have heard him say, that this Jesus of Nazareth shall destroy this place, and shall change the customs which Moses delivered us."
Jesus was destroying the temple by leading people away from it into a new religion. Jesus was teaching against Mosaic blood sacrifice laws and was changing it with the true laws of God.
Paul leads people right back into temple beliefs and acceptance of Mosaic blood sacrifice for sin laws.

You clearly do not understand what Paul is teaching, so I totally understand why you make such false claims.
Paul was teaching the scriptures - that Jesus' sacrifice replaces animal sacrifices... which was a burden.
He clearly differentiates between the Mosaic Law, and the Law of the Christ, which he was teaching.

Paul was not preaching the Mosaic Law.
Please take the time to read the Bible carefully... with understanding.
You say that's what people should do, but it's evident you are not doing that.

 

[Subduction Zone]

He wasn’t my type.

Hmmm . . . I am going to have to count that as evidence that he was a ninja. Not being seen is a crucial element to being a ninja. There are whole parades of ninjas where no one sees anything.

 

[nPeace]

Jesus explained his blood means doctrine and the Words of God including believe in water baptism to remove sins, are pure truth and spotless like an innocent lamb. Jesus is the Shephard and never called himself a lamb because he is not sent by God to be sacrificed. Jesus was sent to save lambs by teaching God does not accept blood sacrifice for sin removal.. The lost sheep of Israel believed in sacrificing lambs but God never accepted any and all were in vain, just meaningless and cruel traditions taught by their fathers to get people to pay the temple money..

Baptism does not remove sins. The Bible clearly teaches that God forgives sins on the basis of repentance, and faith in the ransom sacrifice of his son, whom he sent for this purpose.
(Matthew 20:28) . . .Just as the Son of man came, not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give his life as a ransom in exchange for many.. . .
This agrees with Isaiah prophecy, or one of the Messianic prophecies...
(Isaiah 53:4, 5) 4 Truly he himself carried our sicknesses, And he bore our pains. But we considered him as plagued, stricken by God and afflicted. 5 But he was pierced for our transgression; He was crushed for our errors. He bore the punishment for our peace, And because of his wounds we were healed.

Did you read that in your Bible?
Perhaps you read it, but do not even understand it?
It's clear though.

 But he was pierced for our transgression; He was crushed for our errors. He bore the punishment for our peace, And because of his wounds we were healed.
​

Yes. God forgives our trespasses, on the basis of Christ sacrifice. There is no other way.
Hence why John 3:16 says... “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. "

 

[nPeace]

The man thought all Jews bought their religious status because the temple taught you could buy righteousness with money and Paul taught that also telling people they are redeemed by the purchase of Jesus, a bought and paid for redemption. Paul said,
Acts 20:28
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood."
This man did not know the difference between the religions. The Christian church never accepts money for gifts from God because Holy Spirit was given to them for free with water baptism and they offer it for free, if the nature of a person is embedded with love for God, the words of His Son and acceptance of water baptism to receive Holy Spirit. When Peter and John were laying on of hands they were water baptizing people. Verse 16 in acts 8 states only the Apostles coming down, Peter and John, were water baptized. The topic is receiving Holy Spirit by the act of baptism. The man lacked the spiritual understanding to accept Holy Spirit and wanted to use it a show of personal power not for remission of his sins.

How you applied that scripture is totally false. Or should i say, what you said here, after reading that verse, is totally out of harmony with the verse.

Regardless of the fact that the translation of the Greek text is terrible, the verse helps us to appreciate that it is indeed the blood of Christ, which makes it possible for anyone - of Adam's offspring, to be reconciled to God.
Without the provision of the ranson, which only Christ could pay, no one could have forgiveness.
(Psalm 49:7-9) 7 None of them can ever redeem a brother Or give to God a ransom for him, 8 (The ransom price for their life is so precious That it is always beyond their reach); 9 That he should live forever and not see the pit.

Paul states it so beautifully, I recommend you read his letters from a different mindset to the one you currently hold.

 

[Triumph]

You clearly do not understand what Paul is teaching, so I totally understand why you make such false claims.
Paul was teaching the scriptures - that Jesus' sacrifice replaces animal sacrifices... which was a burden.
He clearly differentiates between the Mosaic Law, and the Law of the Christ, which he was teaching.

Paul was not preaching the Mosaic Law.
Please take the time to read the Bible carefully... with understanding.
You say that's what people should do, but it's evident you are not doing that.

Jesus taught that God never accepted animal or human sacrifices. Mosaic law demands people believe in animal and human sacrifices for sin removal. Jesus also said false teachers would come among you. Paul is the perfect example of a false teacher as he turns people into human sacrificers to a God that refuses to accept blood sacrifices..
The Bible offers clues about Paul that are overlooked. Paul said he is from the tribe of Benjamin.
Genesis 49:27
Benjamin shall ravin as a wolf: in the morning he shall devour the prey, and at night he shall divide the spoil.
John 10:12
But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep."
Paul is a Benjamin wolf in sheeps clothing that denies the Shepherd by calling him a lamb for slaughter. Paul leads the sheep that wanted to follow the Shepherd into Paul's own doctrine of human sacrifice making supporters of Paul, hirelings to scatter the sheep so they are lost unable to find the Shepherd or the right path to God.

Romans 11:1
I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin."
Paul is still supporting only one race, Jews, as the people of God and demands people be grafted in Jews believing their laws. Jesus was casting away Jews, not killing them but leading them away from temple blood sacrifice for sin laws into a religion that does not support blood sacrifices at all.
Jesus even whipped the temple priests for believing buying a blood sacrifice was going to remove their sins when it doesn't. Abraham lied when he had scribes write that God was accepting animal and human sacrifices. Those temple priests serve Abraham not God.
The High Priest demanded Jesus die because the temple was going broke as people were leaving, no longer paying money for blood sacrifices. They learned and understood truth after having accepted water baptism for removal of their sins because God does not accept blood sacrifices. Water Baptism is more than all the blood sacrifices Jews ever made because it is water baptism that removes sin making one a disciple of Jesus and accepted by God.

 

[Wildswanderer]

It is all through scripture that Jesus is not God.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Um yeah you just confirmed that Jesus was God.

 

[Wildswanderer]

No it is not. SHOW ME where JESUS said I am God, worship me.

So you are another cherry picker who only uses some few verses that you can make agree with you.
Jesus agreed that he was God and called himself I AM..if that's not enough for you you are willingly blind to the truth.

 

[Wildswanderer]

I do not recall any such verses. There are verses that I know of where they can be interpreted that he is God and there are verses where it appears that he is claiming not to be God.

Also there are at least four "L" possibilities. Do you remember C.S. Lewis, the author that was also a Christian. He came up with three: Liar, Lunatic, or Lord. He made a fairly good case for Lord. But the forgot the most obvious one. "Legend". That appears to be far more likely. The problem is not me "rejecting scriptures entirely". The problem is that the burden of proof belongs upon believers and they consistently fail at showing that their is any validity to scripture are all.

So you reject scripture as I said.

 

[MyM]

So you are another cherry picker who only uses some few verses that you can make agree with you.
Jesus agreed that he was God and called himself I AM..if that's not enough for you you are willingly blind to the truth.

Nope am not

I just want you to show me where JESUS SAID HE IS GOD. Not cherry picking anything. JUST ONE place where he said he is God.

"I am God, worship me." Shouldn't be so hard should it?

 

[Wildswanderer]

Nope am not

I just want you to show me where JESUS SAID HE IS GOD. Not cherry picking anything. JUST ONE place where he said he is God.

"I am God, worship me." Shouldn't be so hard should it?

Jesus didn't teach in that manner.
The Koine Greek term Ego eimi (Greek Ἐγώ εἰμί, pronounced [eɣó imí]), literally I am or It is I, is an emphatic form of the copulative verb εἰμι that is recorded in the Gospels to have been spoken by Jesus on several occasions to refer to himself not with the role of a verb but playing the role of a name, in the Gospel of John occurring seven times with specific titles. These usages have been the subject of significant Christological analysis.[1][2] The term I Am relating to God appears over 300 times in the Bible, first in the book of Genesis (15:1) and last in Revelation (22:16). This has led to the Biblical God sometimes being referred to as “the great ‘I am’

Jesus was equating Himself with the "I AM" title God gave Himself in Exodus 3:14.

"This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God."
(John 5:18).

Why did the Jews try to kill him for merely saying he was if they didn't understand the implications?
If not true, what he said was blasphemy and the punishment under the Mosaic Law was death.

(Leviticus 24:11–14).

If they had tried to kill him for merely saying he was, they would have been breaking their own law.

 

[Subduction Zone]

So you reject scripture as I said.

Please. No false accusations. I did not even imply that. The fact that the stories of Jesus may be Legend is not a "rejection of scripture" it is putting the burden of proof upon the person that accepts them. The problem is that most believers do not seem to be able to justify their beliefs so they make false attacks on others.

And you have yet to support your beliefs even if one "accepts scriptures". The fact is that there are various interpretations and no one seems to be able to justify any one particular interpretation over others. Didn't you say that it was "obvious"? If that is the case it should have been easy for you to show that it is obvious.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Please. No false accusations. I did not even imply that. The fact that the stories of Jesus may be Legend is not a "rejection of scripture" it is putting the burden of proof upon the person that accepts them. The problem is that most believers do not seem to be able to justify their beliefs so they make false attacks on others.

And you have yet to support your beliefs even if one "accepts scriptures". The fact is that there are various interpretations and no one seems to be able to justify any one particular interpretation over others. Didn't you say that it was "obvious"? If that is the case it should have been easy for you to show that it is obvious.

I already have. See my other posts. Of course you can choose what to believe. You can decide it's all legend. That doesn't change what I was talking about regarding Jesus' claims.

 

[lukethethird]

So you reject scripture as I said.

You might notice that not everyone is superstitious when it comes to what you call scripture.