Paul - An Apostle?

[Bree]

Makes one wonder why he quotes it...but I realize that he doesn't understand even what he quotes. I think we both know why.

totally twisting the scriptures.

 

[Bree]

Your canon of "scripture" comes from the "Mother of harlots" via the festal letter of Easter (pagan god Astarte of Babylon), from the bishop of Alexandria, who was a supporter of the false dogma of the Trinity, written in 367 A.D. way past the falling away (Zechariah 13 & Matthew 26:31). As Constantine was the beast with two horns like a lamb, who was to "deceive" "those who dwell on the earth", I am thinking your point of view is a bit like having a house built on sand (Matthew 7:24-27).

I guess Jehovah is the judge of that. He will sort it out

 

[Triumph]

would you like to start a new post about that topic and have a discussion about it there? I'd be happy to participate

Happy to speak with you.
Jesus was already dead, crucified when Peter was telling people this
Acts:2//38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Peter was not telling people the death of Jesus removed their sins. He was not telling people that the death of Jesus gave people the Holy Ghost.
Peter was saying only water baptism removes sin because Jesus commanded belief in it. Peter had learned what "I desire mercy and not sacrifice" means.
4! Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

Is the doctrine of Paul state water baptism is for the remission of sin? No, Paul's doctrine is killing Jesus removes your sin. If people follow Paul they are not following Jesus or Peter.

1 Corinthians 15:17
And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins."
Well, that is not true because it is water baptism that removes sin. The resurrection of Jesus has nothing to do with our sin removal.
It does assure us that life after death is granted to our savior. Jesus promised to return for his water baptized disciples.

Paul upholds the laws of Moses but Jesus was teaching against believing in those 613 laws because Moses invented them not God.
The temple priests arrested disciple Stephen because Stephen was preaching doctrine against the Jews.
came upon him, and caught him, and brought him to the council,
Acts 6/13 And set up false witnesses, which said, This man ceaseth not to speak blasphemous words against this holy place, and the law:
14 For we have heard him say, that this Jesus of Nazareth shall destroy this place, and shall change the customs which Moses delivered us."
Jesus was destroying the temple by leading people away from it into a new religion. Jesus was teaching against Mosaic blood sacrifice laws and was changing it with the true laws of God.
Paul leads people right back into temple beliefs and acceptance of Mosaic blood sacrifice for sin laws.

 

[Triumph]

You take the scriptures out of context.

Please take note of the surrounding verses so the context can be understood.

Gal 1:13 Of course, you heard about my conduct formerly in Juʹda·ism,+ that I kept intensely persecuting the congregation of God and devastating it;+ 14 and I was making greater progress in Juʹda·ism than many of my own age in my nation, as I was far more zealous for the traditions of my fathers.+ 15 But when God, who separated me from my mother’s womb and called me through his undeserved kindness,+ thought good 16 to reveal his Son through me so that I might declare the good news about him to the nations,+ I did not immediately consult with any human; 17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before I was, but I went to Arabia, and then I returned to Damascus.+
18 Then three years later I went up to Jerusalem+ to visit Ceʹphas,+ and I stayed with him for 15 days.
23 They only used to hear: “The man who formerly persecuted us+ is now declaring the good news about the faith that he formerly devastated.”

Paul converted to Christianity and preached the Good News of the Kingdom along with the Christians.



Again you have left out the context of Pauls letter here. Paul was trying to keep the christians safe from the new apostate teachigns which were beginning to be spread.
2Thess 2: However, brothers, concerning the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ+ and our being gathered together to him,+ we ask you 2 not to be quickly shaken from your reason nor to be alarmed either by an inspired statement+ or by a spoken message or by a letter appearing to be from us, to the effect that the day of Jehovah+ is here.

3 Let no one lead you astray* in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy+ comes first and the man of lawlessness+ gets revealed, the son of destruction.+ 4 He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you, I used to tell you these things?...7 True, the mystery of this lawlessness is already at work...15 So, then, brothers, stand firm+ and maintain your hold on the traditions that you were taught,+ whether it was by a spoken message or by a letter from us

Paul was not talking about jewish traditions.



Sure, when Paul was still a practicing Jew, he was committing murder. But when he converted to Chrisitinity, he repented of his sins and God forgave him. He did not continue following the orders of the jewish sanhedren. He became a Christian.

Misquoting scripture again my friend.

1Peter .1:18 For you know that it was not with corruptible things, with silver or gold, that you were set free*+ from your futile way of life handed down to you by your forefathers.* 19 But it was with precious blood,+ like that of an unblemished and spotless lamb,+ that of Christ.+

Peters teaching is that Christ's blood set us free. Blood sacrifice as was foreshadowed in the law of Moses and the animal sacrfiices given on the alter to atone for sin.



You've completely misread this passage of scriputure and the circumstances.

Acts 8:18 Now when Simon saw that the spirit was given through the laying on of the hands of the apostles, he offered them money, 19 saying: “Give me this authority also, so that anyone on whom I lay my hands may receive holy spirit.” 20 But Peter said to him: “May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could acquire the free gift of God with money.+ 21 You have neither part nor share in this matter, for your heart is not straight in the sight of God. 22

This man, Simon who was not a christian, saw the mircacle performed by the apostles and asked if he could 'buy' such power.
He was rebuked by Peter for such a request. You cannot buy holy spirit from God just so you can perform miracles. And this has nothing to do with Paul.

Jesus explained his blood means doctrine and the Words of God including believe in water baptism to remove sins, are pure truth and spotless like an innocent lamb. Jesus is the Shephard and never called himself a lamb because he is not sent by God to be sacrificed. Jesus was sent to save lambs by teaching God does not accept blood sacrifice for sin removal.. The lost sheep of Israel believed in sacrificing lambs but God never accepted any and all were in vain, just meaningless and cruel traditions taught by their fathers to get people to pay the temple money..

 

[Triumph]

You take the scriptures out of context.

Please take note of the surrounding verses so the context can be understood.

Gal 1:13 Of course, you heard about my conduct formerly in Juʹda·ism,+ that I kept intensely persecuting the congregation of God and devastating it;+ 14 and I was making greater progress in Juʹda·ism than many of my own age in my nation, as I was far more zealous for the traditions of my fathers.+ 15 But when God, who separated me from my mother’s womb and called me through his undeserved kindness,+ thought good 16 to reveal his Son through me so that I might declare the good news about him to the nations,+ I did not immediately consult with any human; 17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before I was, but I went to Arabia, and then I returned to Damascus.+
18 Then three years later I went up to Jerusalem+ to visit Ceʹphas,+ and I stayed with him for 15 days.
23 They only used to hear: “The man who formerly persecuted us+ is now declaring the good news about the faith that he formerly devastated.”

Paul converted to Christianity and preached the Good News of the Kingdom along with the Christians.



Again you have left out the context of Pauls letter here. Paul was trying to keep the christians safe from the new apostate teachigns which were beginning to be spread.
2Thess 2: However, brothers, concerning the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ+ and our being gathered together to him,+ we ask you 2 not to be quickly shaken from your reason nor to be alarmed either by an inspired statement+ or by a spoken message or by a letter appearing to be from us, to the effect that the day of Jehovah+ is here.

3 Let no one lead you astray* in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy+ comes first and the man of lawlessness+ gets revealed, the son of destruction.+ 4 He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you, I used to tell you these things?...7 True, the mystery of this lawlessness is already at work...15 So, then, brothers, stand firm+ and maintain your hold on the traditions that you were taught,+ whether it was by a spoken message or by a letter from us

Paul was not talking about jewish traditions.



Sure, when Paul was still a practicing Jew, he was committing murder. But when he converted to Chrisitinity, he repented of his sins and God forgave him. He did not continue following the orders of the jewish sanhedren. He became a Christian.

To receive holy spirit from God you must forsake belief in blood sacrifice for sin, learn what I desire mercy and not sacrifice means and become water baptized for removal of your sins professing Jesus is the Son of God and asking God for forgiveness. Everyone is responsible for their own sins. Agreeing an innocent man should die is being complicit in murder, causing one to commit a deadly sin against God.


Misquoting scripture again my friend.

1Peter .1:18 For you know that it was not with corruptible things, with silver or gold, that you were set free*+ from your futile way of life handed down to you by your forefathers.* 19 But it was with precious blood,+ like that of an unblemished and spotless lamb,+ that of Christ.+

Peters teaching is that Christ's blood set us free. Blood sacrifice as was foreshadowed in the law of Moses and the animal sacrfiices given on the alter to atone for sin.



You've completely misread this passage of scriputure and the circumstances.

Acts 8:18 Now when Simon saw that the spirit was given through the laying on of the hands of the apostles, he offered them money, 19 saying: “Give me this authority also, so that anyone on whom I lay my hands may receive holy spirit.” 20 But Peter said to him: “May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could acquire the free gift of God with money.+ 21 You have neither part nor share in this matter, for your heart is not straight in the sight of God. 22

This man, Simon who was not a christian, saw the mircacle performed by the apostles and asked if he could 'buy' such power.
He was rebuked by Peter for such a request. You cannot buy holy spirit from God just so you can perform miracles. And this has nothing to do with Paul.

The man thought all Jews bought their religious status because the temple taught you could buy righteousness with money and Paul taught that also telling people they are redeemed by the purchase of Jesus, a bought and paid for redemption. Paul said,
Acts 20:28
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood."
This man did not know the difference between the religions. The Christian church never accepts money for gifts from God because Holy Spirit was given to them for free with water baptism and they offer it for free, if the nature of a person is embedded with love for God, the words of His Son and acceptance of water baptism to receive Holy Spirit. When Peter and John were laying on of hands they were water baptizing people. Verse 16 in acts 8 states only the Apostles coming down, Peter and John, were water baptized. The topic is receiving Holy Spirit by the act of baptism. The man lacked the spiritual understanding to accept Holy Spirit and wanted to use it a show of personal power not for remission of his sins.

 

[MyM]

I have and it's obvious that he's God.

Show me proof where he said I AM GOD. In those words...if Jesus was God it would be continuously all throughout the entire Bible OT AND NT

 

[nPeace]

You will have to define what is "scripture". The "scripture" used by Yeshua is not the "scripture" you apparently use. Even the "holy writings" referred to by Paul, that he had read from youth, do not correspond to what you describe as being from "scripture". As for Paul being a "Christian", a daughter of Babylon, yes, of course, it his gospel that the "Christian" church subscribes, the false gospel of grace, and that would be his church, the "flock doomed for slaughter" per Zechariah 11:7, comprised of the tares following the message of the "enemy"/"devil per Matthew 13:30, which are due to be "gathered" "first" and burned, now that we are at the "end of the age". And no one called Paul an "apostle" apart from Paul, which makes his claim false according to Yeshua. (John 5:31)

New King James Version John 5:31
“If I bear witness of Myself, My witness is not true.

What is scripture to you?

 

[fantome profane]

Interesting claim. Could you see him?

He wasn’t my type.

 

[nPeace]

Apparently, Paul didn't forgive the Jews, and tossed them to the curb. In Missouri, if you participate in a felony, and someone is killed, you are charged with murder. Now if you live in New York or California, where there is almost nothing prosecuted, then well, you are already condemned to living in hell on earth. Everyone will face judgment for what they have done, either good or bad, that is called justice (Revelation 20:12). The one who is to judge between the sheep, before David is made king, is the Lord God (Ezekiel 34;22-23). You will know if you are forgiven if you are healed. If you remain in your corruption, then you are probably remaining in your sins (James 5:15-16). One is judged as they judge others. King David judged the rich man to the maximum extent of the law and was judged the same in turn. If Joe steals your new car and wrecks it while DWI, you can forgive Joe, but the insurance company is going to collect from Joe if you make a claim, and the police are going to put Joe in jail for DWI. Joe remains in his sin and should probably take advantage of the prison health care system, for Joe will remain in his sickness despite that you tell your neighbors that you forgave Joe. Only the righteous man can heal Joe if Joe confesses his sins, and that righteous man is probably not easily found. As for Paul, his friend Satan, apparently placed a thorn in his side. That would be a curse, not a blessing.

New King James Version Revelation 20:12
And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

Saul was not a believer, and so, he was not expected by Jesus, to forgive anyone.
In fact, Jesus expected that behavior, from Saul, as well as all those who did not know his father.
(John 16:1-4) 1 “I have said these things to you so that you may not be stumbled. 2 Men will expel you from the synagogue. In fact, the hour is coming when everyone who kills you will think he has offered a sacred service to God. 3 But they will do these things because they have not come to know either the Father or me. 4 Nevertheless, I have told you these things so that when the hour for them to happen arrives, you will remember that I told them to you.. . .

(Matthew 24:9) “Then people will hand you over to tribulation and will kill you, and you will be hated by all the nations on account of my name.

Don't you at least read the Gospels? Why don't you know this?

That is why he forgave those his murderers.
(Luke 23:34) . . .Jesus was saying: “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.” . . .

When Saul came to know - Jesus let him know - then Saul's stopped fighting against God.

You didn't answer my questions.
Please answer the questions.
Do you believe that Jesus forgives sinners who act in ignorance?
Do you believe Jesus commands that you do the same?
Does your father in heaven forgive you, if you do not forgive others?

 

[2ndpillar]

Saul was not a believer, and so, he was not expected by Jesus, to forgive anyone.
In fact, Jesus expected that behavior, from Saul, as well as all those who did not know his father.
(John 16:1-4) 1 “I have said these things to you so that you may not be stumbled. 2 Men will expel you from the synagogue. In fact, the hour is coming when everyone who kills you will think he has offered a sacred service to God. 3 But they will do these things because they have not come to know either the Father or me. 4 Nevertheless, I have told you these things so that when the hour for them to happen arrives, you will remember that I told them to you.. . .

(Matthew 24:9) “Then people will hand you over to tribulation and will kill you, and you will be hated by all the nations on account of my name.

Don't you at least read the Gospels? Why don't you know this?

That is why he forgave those his murderers.
(Luke 23:34) . . .Jesus was saying: “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.” . . .

When Saul came to know - Jesus let him know - then Saul's stopped fighting against God.

You didn't answer my questions.
Please answer the questions.
Do you believe that Jesus forgives sinners who act in ignorance?
Do you believe Jesus commands that you do the same?
Does your father in heaven forgive you, if you do not forgive others?

It is the Lord God who forgives, and listens to the prayers of the righteous. of whom Yeshua was one. Your noted quote was Yeshua asking his Father to forgive those who don't know what they are doing. No one but God can forgive sins. The foundational stone/rock is justice and righteousness (Isaiah 28:16-17). If someone backs into my car, and causes damage, due to "ignorance" (lack of due care), then I can let them go without paying me for the damage, or I can ask them to donate to the hungry, or make them pay for the damages. How I judge them is how I will be judged. I cannot forgive their sins. The best I can do, is like in your example, ask God to forgive them, but if I am a sinner, as "Christians" profess to be, then God will not listen to my prayer anyway. We are at a time when justice and even righteousness are not even understood, but that time is going to pass (Malachi 3:18). If one wants to have God hear their prayers, they will have to turn from sin (wickedness) to righteousness (Ezekiel 18:21). As for Paul, the shepherd called "Favor", he was "annihilated" by the "Lord my God" (Zechariah 11:8 & 10). As for Paul's followers, those with the mark of the beast with two horns like a lamb, Constantine (Rev 13), the establisher of the Roman Christian church, they will have to drink from the cup of God's wrath (Rev 14:10 & 18:4), and keep their doctor appointments. Paul died, and despite what Paul and the Serpent (Genesis 3:4) has told you, "every one will die" at least once (Jeremiah 31:30).

New King James Version Ezekiel 18:21
“But if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die.

 

[Wildswanderer]

How is it obvious? If that is the case you should be able to demonstrate that without relying on scripture that can be interpreted in more than one manner. Personally I can see merit to both sides of the argument. If I wished to I could pick just the verses where it indicates that Jesus is God, or put that sort of spin on ones that are questionable. And I could easily reverse that. I am not saying that either one is right and that the other is wrong. They could all be wrong. But I have as yet to see one side or the other come even close to proving their beliefs.

It's obvious because he allowed people to worship him for one. You can certainly choose to believe he was only pretending to be God if you want to reject scripture entirely, but there's no doubt that he made the claim.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Show me proof where he said I AM GOD. In those words...if Jesus was God it would be continuously all throughout the entire Bible OT AND NT

It is all through scripture.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

 

[2ndpillar]

What is scripture to you?

Scripture to me is more in line with 2 Timothy 3:15, the "sacred writings" that Paul read from since childhood, which would not include the writings of Paul. Paul was a chosen "shepherd" by the Lord God to "pasture" the "flock doomed for slaughters" (Zechariah 11:7). Well, one can follow Paul, a false prophet over the cliff to "destruction", or they can turn away from their sins and follow the narrow path (Matthw 7:13-23). Now anyone who was in their ignorance, and haven't heard the truth, and then hears the truth, and continues down the wide path to "destruction", their blood is on their own heads, for their ignorance is of their own choosing. They can hold on to their lifelong indoctrinations, or they can turn away from them.

 

[2ndpillar]

It is all through scripture.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

God has no "beginning". The "Word" is the "spirit of prophecy", which is the anointing, of which Yeshua received, and therefore he became the "Word" made flesh. The brothers and sisters of Yeshua have the anointing, and do the will of God. That is to say, they are born of God, and no longer sin (1 John 3:9). "The one who practices sin is of the devil" (1 John 3:8).

 

[2ndpillar]

I guess Jehovah is the judge of that. He will sort it out

The "judgment" will start with the "fat sheep" shepherds and be that they will be "destroyed" and be fed with "judgment" (Ezekiel 34:16).

 

[2ndpillar]

[

Holy spirit preserved the scriptures. I don't mean one of the persons of the trinity.

Yeshua helped "preserve" his message, by telling workers to leave the tares (Paul and his followers) alone, lest they uproot the wheat (Matthew 13:25-29). The tare seed (the message of the enemy/devil) was left to grow until the "end of the age" and then the tares will be gathered and burned (Matthew 13:30). The "Scriptures" were preserved, but along side the message of the devil (Matthew 13:39).

 

[2ndpillar]

Whatever.. I don't do end time prophecy..too many ways to interpret it.... but you don't believe in Jesus' resurrection? Seems like you just cherry pick the verses you want and ignore the rest.

You seem to choose one misinterpreted verse, and ignore everything else. You think you are "saved" by believing in a "resurrection". The demons "believe", yet they have every reason to shutter (James 2:19). "Faith without works is dead" (James 2:26). Without producing good fruit, one is cut down and tossed into the fire (Matthew 3:10). Just a heads up.

 

[Wildswanderer]

God has no "beginning". The "Word" is the "spirit of prophecy", which is the anointing, of which Yeshua received, and therefore he became the "Word" made flesh. The brothers and sisters of Yeshua have the anointing, and do the will of God. That is to say, they are born of God, and no longer sin (1 John 3:9). "The one who practices sin is of the devil" (1 John 3:8).

That's not what it says. If the Word is God himself the word can't be prophecy. You twist scripture terribly.

 

[Wildswanderer]

You seem to choose one misinterpreted verse, and ignore everything else. You think you are "saved" by believing in a "resurrection". The demons "believe", yet they have every reason to shutter (James 2:19). "Faith without works is dead" (James 2:26). Without producing good fruit, one is cut down and tossed into the fire (Matthew 3:10). Just a heads up.

Who said we don't produce fruit? Every protestant church teaches we produce fruit but that fruit isn't what saves us.

 

[nPeace]

It is the Lord God who forgives, and listens to the prayers of the righteous. of whom Yeshua was one. Your noted quote was Yeshua asking his Father to forgive those who don't know what they are doing. No one but God can forgive sins. The foundational stone/rock is justice and righteousness (Isaiah 28:16-17). If someone backs into my car, and causes damage, due to "ignorance" (lack of due care), then I can let them go without paying me for the damage, or I can ask them to donate to the hungry, or make them pay for the damages. How I judge them is how I will be judged. I cannot forgive their sins. The best I can do, is like in your example, ask God to forgive them, but if I am a sinner, as "Christians" profess to be, then God will not listen to my prayer anyway. We are at a time when justice and even righteousness are not even understood, but that time is going to pass (Malachi 3:18). If one wants to have God hear their prayers, they will have to turn from sin (wickedness) to righteousness (Ezekiel 18:21). As for Paul, the shepherd called "Favor", he was "annihilated" by the "Lord my God" (Zechariah 11:8 & 10). As for Paul's followers, those with the mark of the beast with two horns like a lamb, Constantine (Rev 13), the establisher of the Roman Christian church, they will have to drink from the cup of God's wrath (Rev 14:10 & 18:4), and keep their doctor appointments. Paul died, and despite what Paul and the Serpent (Genesis 3:4) has told you, "every one will die" at least once (Jeremiah 31:30).

New King James Version Ezekiel 18:21
“But if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die.

Do you know if Saul was forgiven by God?