Paul - An Apostle?

[YoursTrue]

Here is "God's Law" as found in Torah, including the verses: The 613 Commandments (Mitzvot) - Mitzvahs & Traditions (chabad.org)

How about this? Would you agree with a poster who said "Paul is in the Bible as an example of a false teacher..."?

 

[metis]

Jesus spoke against perversions of scripture. Not against God's law

That's not the point, so maybe try again.

For example, are the 613 Laws in Torah "perversions of scripture", yes or no? They're right there in black & white to read.

 

[metis]

How about this? Would you agree with a poster who said "Paul is in the Bible as an example of a false teacher..."?

No, I don't, and I previously posted that I do not agree with that.

 

[YoursTrue]

There are two accounts of the wilderness meeting. The other one disagrees with the one you just cited, in which no one heard any voice. The account was not given by a direct witness, and according to the unknown author, who is often assumed to be Luke, the account would have been provided by Paul, who was supposedly an associate of Paul. There were no witnesses to what was said, and apparently, according to Paul, through the author of Acts, no one saw anyone. According to Yeshua, self-witnessing, "is not true", and you should not believe anyone who says, "He is in the wilderness".

New King James Version 22:9
“And those who were with me indeed saw the light and were afraid, but they did not hear the voice of Him who spoke to me.

may I ask what makes you believe in Jesus if you claim to?

 

[YoursTrue]

That's not the point, so maybe try again.

For example, are the 613 Laws in Torah "perversions of scripture", yes or no? They're right there in black & white to read.

What would you say?Jesus wasn't speaking of the law of God, I'm surprised you don't know that. Do you believe the following:
1Then some Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2“Why do Your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They do not wash their hands before they eat.”3Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’a and ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.’b 5But you say that if anyone says to his father or mother, ‘Whatever you would have received from me is a gift devoted to God,’ 6he need not honor his father or mother with it.c Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7You hypocrites! Isaiah prophesied correctly about you:8‘These people honor Me with their lips,but their hearts are far from Me.9They worship Me in vain; they teach as doctrine the precepts of men."

Go ahead, what do you think about that? Did Jesus say those words, or maybe you're not sure?

 

[YoursTrue]

No, I don't, and I previously posted that I do not agree with that.

Thank you. What are your reasons for believing that Paul was not a false teacher,?

 

[metis]

Jesus spoke against perversions of scripture. Not against God's law

What would you say?Jesus wasn't speaking of the law of God, I'm surprised you don't know that.

AGAIN, what is referred to as "God's Law" are the 613 Laws as found it Torah, and that was my one and only point!

And of course I know that.

 

[metis]

Thank you. What are your reasons for believing that Paul was not a false teacher,?

Because of his acceptance with the Twelve.

 

[Bree]

Understand Ananias is a dead man. He died because God would not tolerate a lying thief that claimed he supported the poor and the words of God when he did not. Ananias wanted to be perceived as righteous when he was a deceiver and that is why his name is used in association with Paul. Ananias can NOT give "sight" only God can give sight and Ananias is not God. Paul was blind to truth and never received spiritual sight.
But the most important thing to understand about conversion is does the person uphold the gospel of Jesus or not. Paul tells people he does but actually teaches the exact opposite to what Jesus taught. Example: Jesus did not want people to be given titles in his church.

Matthew 23: 8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven."
Jesus wanted complete equality, ALL brethren, none exalted above another. Verse 9 obviously means other than your biological father, CALL no other man father as a religious title.
Paul hands out the title of "father" which requires other people to CALL them father thus causing them not to obey Jesus, as they do obey Paul.

You obviously do not use the bible as the basis for your beliefs. Shame about that. Gods word is truth. If you dont' accept it as it is, then God cannot help you.

 

[Bree]

You seem to be a little presumptive. The whole wilderness account would have had to been from only Paul. As for some guy Ananias, that appears to be a name associated in people being killed by the Holy Spirit for lying, and sentencing Yeshua to death. Besides, if you have some unknown guy possibly associated with the false prophet Paul, providing evidence, well that kind of falls short of what Yeshua required per Matthew 18:16.

Read the account in Acts Chapter 9. That is all. If you can't accept the scriptures as truth, then you are believing the lies of apostates.

 

[YoursTrue]

Because of his acceptance with the Twelve.

By the time Paul became a disciple, who were the 12 you are speaking of, because Judas Iscariot had already killed himself, didn't he?
I am glad to hear you actually believe Paul was one 'sent forth' to preach -- about Jesus. :and was not a liar as claimed by some here.
(Note - @Triumph and @2ndpillar)
One thing at a time.

 

[Triumph]

You obviously do not use the bible as the basis for your beliefs. Shame about that. Gods word is truth. If you dont' accept it as it is, then God cannot help you.

What I am saying is scriptural. You are not reading what Jesus said compared to what Paul said. They do not match.
God did not send Jesus to teach truth for salvation, then accept a man that claims the doctrine Jesus taught is wrong.

 

[YoursTrue]

What I am saying is scriptural. You are not reading what Jesus said compared to what Paul said. They do not match.
God did not send Jesus to teach truth for salvation, then accept a man that claims the doctrine Jesus taught is wrong.

Remember and tell me what you think about the following: When Jesus was on the earth he taught his disciples a certain prayer. You probably know what that is. It's sometimes called "the Lord's Prayer..." Why do you think he taught this prayer?

 

[YoursTrue]

What I am saying is scriptural. You are not reading what Jesus said compared to what Paul said. They do not match.
God did not send Jesus to teach truth for salvation, then accept a man that claims the doctrine Jesus taught is wrong.

Remember also what Jesus said after his resurrection. Quite a bit different from BEFORE his resurrection. Notice:
(Matthew 28) "Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
So -- there are a few points attached to this. One is that he told his followers to make disciples of all nations -- baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and -- the Holy Spirit.

 

[YoursTrue]

What I am saying is scriptural. You are not reading what Jesus said compared to what Paul said. They do not match.
God did not send Jesus to teach truth for salvation, then accept a man that claims the doctrine Jesus taught is wrong.

@metis is a teacher about scriptural things. Why not ask him about this and why he thinks that Paul was truly an apostle? You might get some interesting answers...

 

[Triumph]

You obviously do not use the bible as the basis for your beliefs. Shame about that. Gods word is truth. If you dont' accept it as it is, then God cannot help you.

I give you an exact quote from the Bible that proves what I am saying is right and then you reply that I do not use the Bible as a basis for my beliefs.
Paul never stopped being a Jew, what Paul added to his old religion is the name Jesus to represent the military Christ the Jews are expecting in the future to kill all of their enemies, so Jews rule the world.
Galatians 1:14
And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers."
Paul remained zealous of the traditions of his fathers believing everything they taught, even after he claimed to convert to the New religion Jesus established. When Jesus said do not pour the old wine into the new wine because it will destroy it, Jesus was talking about don't mix the old Jewish beliefs with the new beliefs Jesus was teaching because they are not compatible, they are very different religions and Jesus changed the old beliefs. But Paul taught,
2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
Paul taught do keep believing in everything that was the Jewish religion, don't accept any change. That is Paul's epistle.
In John chapter 7 Jesus said,
19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?"
The law that Jesus supports as given from God to Moses was the 10 Commandments and the Commandment "do not kill" was ignored by the Jews including Paul that agreed Jesus should die. Jesus is teaching it is God's desire that Jesus not be killed.
1 Peter 1:18
Forasmuch as ye know that ye were NOT redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;"
Peter is telling us that the traditional belief in blood sacrifice for sin redeemed no one. To believe in blood sacrifice is vanity. Righteousness cannot be bought so Paul lies when he said we are redeemed with the purchased life of Jesus.
Acts 8:20
But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money."
That 30 pieces of silver that the Jews paid for Jesus will cause them to perish because the gift of redemption
is not given with human or animal sacrifice. Paul with the other Jews believe it can while Jesus taught it cannot.

 

[YoursTrue]

Here is "God's Law" as found in Torah, including the verses: The 613 Commandments (Mitzvot) - Mitzvahs & Traditions (chabad.org)

Here is what the Bible says:
Luke chapter 13.
"On a Sabbath Jesus was teaching in one of the synagogues, 11 and a woman was there who had been crippled by a spirit for eighteen years. She was bent over and could not straighten up at all. 12 When Jesus saw her, he called her forward and said to her, “Woman, you are set free from your infirmity.” 13 Then he put his hands on her, and immediately she straightened up and praised God.
14 Indignant because Jesus had healed on the Sabbath, the synagogue leader said to the people, “There are six days for work. So come and be healed on those days, not on the Sabbath.”
15 The Lord answered him, “You hypocrites! Doesn’t each of you on the Sabbath untie your ox or donkey from the stall and lead it out to give it water? 16 Then should not this woman, a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan has kept bound for eighteen long years, be set free on the Sabbath day from what bound her?”

 

[Triumph]

Remember and tell me what you think about the following: When Jesus was on the earth he taught his disciples a certain prayer. You probably know what that is. It's sometimes called "the Lord's Prayer..." Why do you think he taught this prayer?

Because Jesus is not God and Jesus never wants anyone to think he is. All prayer is to Our Father which is in heaven. All power is from God. Jesus does not have all power although the power he did have was gifted to him by God. Only God can forgive sins to allow one eternal life. God is the Word and Jesus said he did not invent/create those words, Jesus hears them from God so does not know what they are until he is told. Jesus is one with the words he hears because they are truth from God.
In the beginning was God alone. Jesus did not exist until God created him in the womb of Mary. Jesus is and always will be half Mary's DNA. Mary is not God. Mary did not exist in the beginning and neither did her son Jesus. The false idea that Jesus is God is an incestual concept and entirely untrue. God and His son Jesus are one in love, loyalty, and truth, but they always were and always will be entirely separate entities.

 

[Triumph]

What would you say?Jesus wasn't speaking of the law of God, I'm surprised you don't know that. Do you believe the following:
1Then some Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2“Why do Your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They do not wash their hands before they eat.”3Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’a and ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.’b 5But you say that if anyone says to his father or mother, ‘Whatever you would have received from me is a gift devoted to God,’ 6he need not honor his father or mother with it.c Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7You hypocrites! Isaiah prophesied correctly about you:8‘These people honor Me with their lips,but their hearts are far from Me.9They worship Me in vain; they teach as doctrine the precepts of men."

Go ahead, what do you think about that? Did Jesus say those words, or maybe you're not sure?

The command from God is Do NOT Kill but the Jews break that command for the sake of their tradition of burning children alive and stoning people to death which are additional examples of the issue Jesus is discussing.
Jesus is saying the temple priests even pervert the laws that they were taught as traditions to suit their own desires. The example Jesus is giving shows they refuse to hold themselves accountable of the disrespect they give their parents even if they curse them because they believe regardless of what they say or do it is approved by God, even when it isn't. These men are heartless without any love for people or the commandments of God, and they do as they please to exalt themselves giving themselves the undeserved quality of righteousness. They do not care who is hurt in the process as they show disrespect for God while they are proclaiming respect for themselves.

 

[YoursTrue]

Because Jesus is not God and Jesus never wants anyone to think he is. All prayer is to Our Father which is in heaven. All power is from God. Jesus does not have all power although the power he did have was gifted to him by God. Only God can forgive sins to allow one eternal life. God is the Word and Jesus said he did not invent/create those words, Jesus hears them from God so does not know what they are until he is told. Jesus is one with the words he hears because they are truth from God.
In the beginning was God alone. Jesus did not exist until God created him in the womb of Mary. Jesus is and always will be half Mary's DNA. Mary is not God. Mary did not exist in the beginning and neither did her son Jesus. The false idea that Jesus is God is an incestual concept and entirely untrue. God and His son Jesus are one in love, loyalty, and truth, but they always were and always will be entirely separate entities.

Please do try and ask someone here like @metis if Jesus is God. Thank you.