Parents Rights On Transgender Policy

[esmith]

A New Jersy judge ruled that three schoold districts do not have to inform parents if their child changes their gender identity.
I for one believe that parents have the right to know what their child is doing or what they want to do in any situation. What rights do you think parents have in this manner??

New Jersey judge temporarily blocks school districts from notifying parents of child's gender identity change

A New Jersey judge temporarily blocked three school districts from enforcing new policies requiring staff to inform parents if their child changes their gender identity.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Debater Slayer]

In an accepting society, I see a strong argument for requiring school staff to let parents know about their child's gender identity, especially so that the parents could further explore the subject with their child. In an environment where there are many parents who wouldn't hesitate to abuse or even disown their children over such a thing, however, I think the question is far more complicated, and the practical consideration of the children's safety may entail removing such a requirement.

If some people want schools to feel safe reporting such things to parents, maybe they can start by talking about this with the parents who have made it clear that they could endanger their own child's mental or even physical safety if they found out that their child didn't fit into the tight boxes of being cisgender and heterosexual.

 

[Altfish]

My initial reaction is to vote, "YES"
BUT then my brain kicks in, if the child can't talk to the parents in the first instance there is a problem. The fact that a school knows first tells you something about the parents and their relationship with their own child.
This is like the catholic confession box; the child expects secrecy if they mention the gender issue with a teacher.
If they are forced to tell parents, then the child won't tell anyone. That leads to more health problems and even possibly suicides.

So, I've ticked "NO"

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

It's a complicated issues because it depends on the understanding of the parents.

Telling very understanding and compassionate parents could be practical.

However, some parents really won't take it well, and may even do irrational and proven ineffective things like trying Conversion Therapy.

I voted "no".

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yes, they have a right as the child is theirs. I think this LGBT stuff in schools has gone overboard and it needs to be handled as a private matter between the family and staff, if it comes up at all.

 

[fantome profane]

A New Jersy judge ruled that three schoold districts do not have to inform parents if their child changes their gender identity.
I for one believe that parents have the right to know what their child is doing or what they want to do in any situation. What rights do you think parents have in this manner??

New Jersey judge temporarily blocks school districts from notifying parents of child's gender identity change

A New Jersey judge temporarily blocked three school districts from enforcing new policies requiring staff to inform parents if their child changes their gender identity.

www.foxnews.com

If the child is not telling their parents there is probably a good reason.

Here is a story I heard recently. A 13 year old boy identified as gay, he had an older brother who also identified as gay. I say "had" because his older brother committed suicide. The parents were very emotionally abusive to the older brother when he came out. Should the teachers out the younger brother?

The school has an obligation to inform the parents about the students grades and how they are doing is school, and any disciplinary problems, but they don't need to inform them about their child's personal feelings.

 

[fantome profane]

btw, I find it hypocritical that some people have no respect for parental rights if the parents want to get gender affirming care. Then they want the state to step in.

But if it is about violating the privacy of a transgender child that is when they shout "parental rights".

 

[Stevicus]

A New Jersy judge ruled that three schoold districts do not have to inform parents if their child changes their gender identity.
I for one believe that parents have the right to know what their child is doing or what they want to do in any situation. What rights do you think parents have in this manner??

New Jersey judge temporarily blocks school districts from notifying parents of child's gender identity change

A New Jersey judge temporarily blocked three school districts from enforcing new policies requiring staff to inform parents if their child changes their gender identity.

www.foxnews.com

I'm not sure. I don't think that parents own their children, and I believe children have some rights. Although the parents may eventually find out anyway.

From the school's point of view (ideally), they would have to consider the needs and well-being of the child, first and foremost, even above that of the parents', particularly in cases where abuse or neglect may be suspected. If the school has reason to believe that the child would be abused by them disclosing such information to their parents, then the school would bear some responsibility.

 

[Viker]

btw, I find it hypocritical that some people have no respect for parental rights if the parents want to get gender affirming care. Then they want the state to step in.

But if it is about violating the privacy of a transgender child that is when they shout "parental rights".

Exactly, these "parental rights" are slanted one way. They're only for the parents of non-LGBTQ teens and to not only deny those teens help but their parents say so in the matter.

 

[YmirGF]

I voted, "Yes!"

I cannot think of a much more an insidious thing than for teachers/schools to "trans" a kid behind their parent's back and without the parents' knowledge. To my thinking, that is almost the definition of "evil". Since when did teachers become qualified to render an opinion on the matter, and who is to say they have the requisite training? Now, if only the poor kids could read, write and do simple math. At least they know about unlimited gender options.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Yes, they have a right as the child is theirs. I think this LGBT stuff in schools has gone overboard and it needs to be handled as a private matter between the family and staff, if it comes up at all.

What about situations where school staff have strong reasons to believe that a child may be abused for their gender identity?

 

[Debater Slayer]

I voted, "Yes!"

I cannot think of a much more an insidious thing than for teachers/schools to "trans" a kid behind their parent's back and without the parents' knowledge.

This assumes that the child was "converted" by the teachers or the school, but it's a fact that gender dysphoria occurs in some children. I understood the ruling to mainly be about those cases.

To my thinking, that is almost the definition of "evil". Since when did teachers become qualified to render an opinion on the matter, and who is to say they have the requisite training? Now, if only the poor kids could read, write and do simple math. At least they know about unlimited gender options.

The teachers don't have to render any opinion; the ruling merely states that they're not required to tell the parents about their child's gender identity.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

What about situations where school staff have strong reasons to believe that a child may be abused for their gender identity?

If you're talking about actual child abuse, they need to go to CPS/the police, never mind the trans stuff.

 

[Debater Slayer]

If you're talking about actual child abuse, they need to go to CPS/the police, never mind the trans stuff.

I'm talking about abuse based on the child's gender identity, yes. If I were a teacher, I don't think I could, in good conscience, inform a parent of such a thing knowing full well that my telling them could result in abuse for the child.

I'm not familiar with how child protection works there, so I suppose if teachers were required to tell parents about the child's gender, they could then report any consequent abuse. How likely would the abuse be to result in concrete steps to protect the child, though? Does the threshold for what constitutes abuse vary from state to state?

 

[YmirGF]

This assumes that the child was "converted" by the teachers or the school, but it's a fact that gender dysphoria occurs in some children. I understood the ruling to mainly be about those cases.

They are taught about gender identity from Kindergarten here in British Columbia. I see it more as indoctrination. Due to the indoctrination (IE. Putting ideas into kids heads) it should be no surprise that children would be intrigued by these ideas, as they have a penchant with playing with anything at their ages. If a child acts on that indoctrination, encouraged by teachers, parents must be advised due to the nature of this social contagion.

The teachers don't have to render any opinion; the ruling merely states that they're not required to tell the parents about their child's gender identity.

Oddly, I thought parents MUST be informed about any kind of medical emergency involving their kids. Strange they would leave this one out.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I'm talking about abuse based on the child's gender identity, yes. If I were a teacher, I don't think I could, in good conscience, inform a parent of such a thing knowing full well that my telling them could result in abuse for the child.

I'm not familiar with how child protection works there, so I suppose if teachers were required to tell parents about the child's gender, they could then report any consequent abuse. How likely would the abuse be to result in concrete steps to protect the child, though? Does the threshold for what constitutes abuse vary from state to state?

The police would investigate it. A social worker would probably be included, too. Granted, I'm talking about physical abuse and neglect. Those are crimes.

 

[YmirGF]

I'm talking about abuse based on the child's gender identity, yes. If I were a teacher, I don't think I could, in good conscience, inform a parent of such a thing knowing full well that my telling them could result in abuse for the child.

Then you should be fired and be removed from dealing with children. A parent simply saying they think their child is delusional could be construed as being abusive to the ideologically unhinged.

I'm not familiar with how child protection works there, so I suppose if teachers were required to tell parents about the child's gender, they could then report any consequent abuse. How likely would the abuse be to result in concrete steps to protect the child, though? Does the threshold for what constitutes abuse vary from state to state?

It would seem that anything short of 100% compliance could be seen as being abusive. Not hard in a word where words are already seen as violence.

 

[Debater Slayer]

They are taught about gender identity from Kindergarten here in British Columbia. I see it more as indoctrination. Due to the indoctrination (IE. Putting ideas into kids heads) it should be no surprise that children would be intrigued by these ideas, as they have a penchant with playing with anything at their ages. If a child acts on that indoctrination, encouraged by teachers, parents must be advised due to the nature of this social contagion.

This still seems to be based on a pre-existing assumption that gender identity is a "social contagion" or that education about it is indoctrination. I don't see it much differently from how I see education about other aspects of human psychology, and merely educating people about something and telling them it exists aren't synonymous with asking them to identify with it.

That scenario also doesn't take into account the children who may be genuinely living with gender dysphoria.

Oddly, I thought parents MUST be informed about any kind of medical emergency involving their kids. Strange they would leave this one out.

Ideally, I agree that parents should know about this. In practice, there are many parents who would either deny the medical issue or try to just make it "go away" using a host of unevidenced, abusive practices. That's where my concern lies.

 

[fantome profane]

"trans" a kid behind their parent's back

No one is doing that, that is not a thing. Not even possible if someone wanted to do it. I don't know what sick propaganda you are reading, but you can't "trans" somebody.

And you are exactly right, let the teachers teach math, and reading, and history. They don't need to get involved in this at all.

The school has an obligation to inform the parents about the students grades and how they are doing is school, and any disciplinary problems, but they don't need to inform them about their child's personal feelings.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Then you should be fired and be removed from dealing with children.

Thankfully, at least some developed countries disagree, and this ruling further cements that.

A parent simply saying they think their child is delusional could be construed as being abusive to the ideologically unhinged.

I wasn't talking about merely saying that the child is "delusional" but also about other forms of abuse, although that kind of immediately dismissive reaction would still be a problem. A parent saying their child is "delusional" instead of exploring whether their child has gender dysphoria is no different from a parent dismissing depression or schizophrenia as "devilish influence" instead of taking the kid to a psychiatrist. This kind of immediate dismissal is exactly why many people agree with rulings like the one cited in the OP.

The starting point for your position seems to be based on equating acceptance of science and psychiatry with being "ideologically unhinged." When the premise is rooted in dismissing scientific consensus, I don't really know how the conclusions can be helpful.

It would seem that anything short of 100% compliance could be seen as being abusive.

Is there any law stating this? Where is this happening?

Not hard in a word where words are already seen as violence.

By whom? You're talking about a position that is quite fringe. Certainly, in the US and Canada, I'm unaware of any majority or significant minority who see words as violence. I'm sure the Iranian regime and the CCP may see words as such, but I'm assuming that we're talking about liberal democracies in this case.