Pagans with a purpose?

[Comprehend]

Hey everyone. This is my first visit into this area and I have zero understanding of anything you guys practice. I have thought of a few questions that I thought would be interesting to know.

Please forgive me if I say something ignorant or offensive, it is not intended. Feel free to answer any single question or all of them.

1. As you see your religion, is it meant to be a force for good or evil? Why?

2. What do you see the Pagan community working towards?

3. What about your religion makes you the most happy?

P.S. I have already met a few of you and appreciate your kindness.

 

[Gentoo]

Hey everyone. This is my first visit into this area and I have zero understanding of anything you guys practice. I have thought of a few questions that I thought would be interesting to know.

Please forgive me if I say something ignorant or offensive, it is not intended. Feel free to answer any single question or all of them.

1. As you see your religion, is it meant to be a force for good or evil? Why?

2. What do you see the Pagan community working towards?

3. What about your religion makes you the most happy?

P.S. I have already met a few of you and appreciate your kindness.

Hello

I think first what needs to be said is that Paganism isn't a religion in and of itself. It's more of an umbrella term used to describe religions that are either polytheistic or "pre-date" Christianity. I say "pre-date" because there is actually very little that does really pre-date Christianity. Wicca is very new for example, brought about in the 1950's that brings back a lot of old ways of thinking, like reveering the Earth for it's bounties.

To your questions:
1.) My religion is that of good. Wicca has a set of guidelines that you may have heard of. It's called the Wiccan Rede. It's a poem that was written in the 50's (by Doreen Valiente I think, don't quote me on that...), that can be summed up in it's last two lines: " 'An it harm none, do as ye will." or some form of that. It basically says that as long as there is no harm done to ANYone, including the Wiccan, then you can do what you want. It seems like that can be a free-for-all, but there is another guideline/rule to help keep it in place: The rule of three/the three-fold law, which states that any energy you put out (prayer, thought, actions, spells, rituals) will return to you three times over. This is a good 'incentive' to do good and not do harm.

2.) I see the Pagan community working to create a better society, happiness by offering another way to achieve religious fulfillness. There is a lot of work to be done, dispelling the misconceptions that others hold against us (work of the Devil and what-not). But I do think that we are making progress.

3.) What makes me most happy about Wicca is that I can form my own beliefs within the construction of Wicca. This religion's different because there is no set way of doing things, one can even reject the Rede and the three-fold law if they wish. You'll be hard pressed to find 2 Wiccans that believe the same things, even within the structure of the coven.

P.S. Thank you! I enjoy answering questions

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I think Gentoo did a great job answering the questions.

I'd like to add for question 2 that I think one of the purposes of the pagan community (using pagan in its mainstream sense of any religion based on Nature worship, polytheism, or Magick use) is to gain a closer relationship to Nature.

Also, in answering question 1, it should be kept in mind that many pagans do not hold a traditional sense of "good," and "evil." Instead, many see a positive/negative spectrum that is often times dependant on perspective. Generally though, I think members of the pagan community are working towards a positive relationship with the world.

Hope this helps!

 

[Comprehend]

1.) My religion is that of good. Wicca has a set of guidelines that you may have heard of. It's called the Wiccan Rede. It's a poem that was written in the 50's (by Doreen Valiente I think, don't quote me on that...), that can be summed up in it's last two lines: " 'An it harm none, do as ye will." or some form of that. It basically says that as long as there is no harm done to ANYone, including the Wiccan, then you can do what you want. It seems like that can be a free-for-all, but there is another guideline/rule to help keep it in place: The rule of three/the three-fold law, which states that any energy you put out (prayer, thought, actions, spells, rituals) will return to you three times over. This is a good 'incentive' to do good and not do harm.

Ok - Now we are talking. I was a philosophy major in undergrad and I understand this sort of thinking. The Wiccan Rede looks to me to do Kant (categorical imperitive) and Mill (utilitarianism) one better, while Kant and Mill allow for harm to be done for the "greater good" your crede allows only action that harms no one. That is impressive to me. I have much respect for anyone who would take such great care for those around him.

The rule of three would indeed be a powerful incentive.

2.) I see the Pagan community working to create a better society, happiness by offering another way to achieve religious fulfillness. There is a lot of work to be done, dispelling the misconceptions that others hold against us (work of the Devil and what-not). But I do think that we are making progress.

unfortunately I think this is also an area that we have common ground. We (LDS) are often accused of being a cult or inspired by the devil, etc. etc. It is unfortunate that some are so willing to believe the negative about those who are different. I believe we are all trying to be happy, we just have different understandings of what it is that will bring happiness.

3.) What makes me most happy about Wicca is that I can form my own beliefs within the construction of Wicca. This religion's different because there is no set way of doing things, one can even reject the Rede and the three-fold law if they wish. You'll be hard pressed to find 2 Wiccans that believe the same things, even within the structure of the coven.

Freedom and liberty are a wonderful thing aren't they?

Thank you so much for the answers. :unicorn:

 

[Comprehend]

I'd like to add for question 2 that I think one of the purposes of the pagan community (using pagan in its mainstream sense of any religion based on Nature worship, polytheism, or Magick use) is to gain a closer relationship to Nature.

Is nature a singular entity (in the use above) or a collection of all of the plants, animals, and the earth itself? Does this include a special diet etc?

Also, in answering question 1, it should be kept in mind that many pagans do not hold a traditional sense of "good," and "evil." Instead, many see a positive/negative spectrum that is often times dependant on perspective. Generally though, I think members of the pagan community are working towards a positive relationship with the world.

Hope this helps!

Good to know. Yes this is very helpful. Is the distinction between good and positive one of morality or lack thereof?

 

[Gentoo]

Ok - Now we are talking. I was a philosophy major in undergrad and I understand this sort of thinking. The Wiccan Rede looks to me to do Kant (categorical imperitive) and Mill (utilitarianism) one better, while Kant and Mill allow for harm to be done for the "greater good" your crede allows only action that harms no one. That is impressive to me. I have much respect for anyone who would take such great care for those around him.

The rule of three would indeed be a powerful incentive.

Taking care of our fellow man is apart of who I am, at least. Humans are a part of Earth as well and need just as much attention as the rest. And I thank you for your kind words

unfortunately I think this is also an area that we have common ground. We (LDS) are often accused of being a cult or inspired by the devil, etc. etc. It is unfortunate that some are so willing to believe the negative about those who are different. I believe we are all trying to be happy, we just have different understandings of what it is that will bring happiness.

From what I understand of LDS, yes, we do share a lot of common ground. I honestly don't know what the LDS's way of thinking on the Devil-figure, but most Pagans don't believe in one, so it's kind of laughable when someone says to me that my religion was created by him.

Freedom and liberty are a wonderful thing aren't they?

Indeed they are

Thank you so much for the answers. :unicorn:

You're very welcome. Thanks for asking such good questions Feel free to ask more if you have any.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

It's good to see you here! Thanks for the questions! (As I said, we enjoy them!)

1. As you see your religion, is it meant to be a force for good or evil? Why?

Most Pagan traditions do not categorize things as being 'good' or 'evil.' If I were forced to choose, though, I would say that I see it as a way toward being a force for good as it helps me to recognize my own self-worth and that of others, as well as promoting respect for the environment and compassion for others.

2. What do you see the Pagan community working towards?

That's a good question! As Gentoo mentioned, a great deal of it seems to be focused on creating a better society. To me, specifically, it means working toward speaking up for those that don't have a voice- the impoverished, the ones without power.

3. What about your religion makes you the most happy?

It recognizes my spirit animal (the creature that I was first incarnated as) as a creature of worth and affords it dignity. I love that!

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Is nature a singular entity (in the use above) or a collection of all of the plants, animals, and the earth itself? Does this include a special diet etc?

It certainly can be for either. There are pagans who may worship a Gaia figure, or nature as simply a symbolic representation of the Universe (or just the Earth). I used it in the latter sense, but that certainly doesn't speak for everyone.

I think that most pagans would agree that they see the world as invested with spiritual essense. (I could be wrong in this assumption, but that's what I've gathered from my research).

Some may have a special diet. I know one Wiccan who is vegetarian because of her beliefs.

As for my own belief, I am panentheistic, meaning I see God as the spiritual (subjective) essense of the Universe. Therefore, God is a part of Nature (as well as us and all life).

Good to know. Yes this is very helpful. Is the distinction between good and positive one of morality or lack thereof?

I think it leads to morality. As you know, ethical philosophy is a rather convoluted subject. While this positive/negative spectrum typically has to do with the energy work in Magick, it seems natural to apply it to morality. Rather than taking a deontological approach like many other religions (and Kant), it allows greater flexibility for the practitioner to decide what is morally positive and negative. I don't think many pagans would take it as a utilitarian approach (though I could be wrong), as they would believe that the ends are not always seen, therefore justifying an action based on results would not always be possible.

Hope that made some sense.

 

[Comprehend]

It's good to see you here! Thanks for the questions! (As I said, we enjoy them!)

Good to be here

Most Pagan traditions do not categorize things as being 'good' or 'evil.' If I were forced to choose, though, I would say that I see it as a way toward being a force for good as it helps me to recognize my own self-worth and that of others, as well as promoting respect for the environment and compassion for others.

this is such an interesting idea to me. I have always thought in terms of good and evil so it is fun to think this way. respect for the environment and compassion for others is definitely high on my list as well.

That's a good question! As Gentoo mentioned, a great deal of it seems to be focused on creating a better society. To me, specifically, it means working toward speaking up for those that don't have a voice- the impoverished, the ones without power.

I think you do a good job with it.

It recognizes my spirit animal (the creature that I was first incarnated as) as a creature of worth and affords it dignity. I love that!

yes, I was reading your spirit animal thread and thought it was very interesting. I couldn't think of anything to post there that wouldn't sound dumb so I just read it.

 

[Comprehend]

It certainly can be for either. There are pagans who may worship a Gaia figure, or nature as simply a symbolic representation of the Universe (or just the Earth). I used it in the latter sense, but that certainly doesn't speak for everyone.

I think that most pagans would agree that they see the world as invested with spiritual essense. (I could be wrong in this assumption, but that's what I've gathered from my research).

That is definitely an interesting idea. Mormons believe that the earth has a sort of spiritual essense as well. (I hate to keep telling you about my religion but I just keep thinking of the similarities, I know this is supposed to be about Pagans).

As for my own belief, I am panentheistic, meaning I see God as the spiritual (subjective) essense of the Universe. Therefore, God is a part of Nature (as well as us and all life).

Is God a sentient essence or is it more like a force? (feel free to laugh if that was a stupid word to use)

I think it leads to morality. As you know, ethical philosophy is a rather convoluted subject.

yes I do! :yes:

While this positive/negative spectrum typically has to do with the energy work in Magick, it seems natural to apply it to morality. Rather than taking a deontological approach like many other religions (and Kant), it allows greater flexibility for the practitioner to decide what is morally positive and negative. I don't think many pagans would take it as a utilitarian approach (though I could be wrong), as they would believe that the ends are not always seen, therefore justifying an action based on results would not always be possible.

I am terribly interested in energy (mostly light) and how it relates to religion. I am not an ends justify the means kind of guy either, but I am deontological (duties and rights). Thanks for all of the time and info. ya'll are great.

 

[Draka]

Hey everyone. This is my first visit into this area and I have zero understanding of anything you guys practice. I have thought of a few questions that I thought would be interesting to know.

Please forgive me if I say something ignorant or offensive, it is not intended. Feel free to answer any single question or all of them.

1. As you see your religion, is it meant to be a force for good or evil? Why?

2. What do you see the Pagan community working towards?

3. What about your religion makes you the most happy?

P.S. I have already met a few of you and appreciate your kindness.

1. Good and evil are difficult terms to work with. Especially since there technically is no force for "evil" in my beliefs. We, as humans, do the best we can. Some obviously fall short of that, regardless of beliefs or religion. Gentoo described the Wiccan Rede and the Threefold Law though, and that is what motivates us to do the best we can. Now, this isn't to say that sometimes people won't get harmed, as long as that wasn't the intention behind what we did. We have the best intentions, but no one is perfect.

2. Acceptance for one. Look how long it's taken for Sgt. Stewart to get a Pentacle on his headstone. It's hard to get accepted even in death. Another thing is environmentalism and protection of endangered species and much more. The human race tends to rape this planet and it's the only home we have. We honor it and want it taken care of.

3. The overwhelming feeling of connection to everyone and everything. To be able to feel and know that the Divine runs through me and everyone around me. To feel a part of All.

 

[Comprehend]

1. Good and evil are difficult terms to work with. Especially since there technically is no force for "evil" in my beliefs. We, as humans, do the best we can. Some obviously fall short of that, regardless of beliefs or religion. Gentoo described the Wiccan Rede and the Threefold Law though, and that is what motivates us to do the best we can. Now, this isn't to say that sometimes people won't get harmed, as long as that wasn't the intention behind what we did. We have the best intentions, but no one is perfect.

What do you call someone who for whatever reason decides to be a serial killer or something of that nature? I would think of them as a force for evil. They clearly aren't trying to do anything good. A couple of others have also taken issue with the good/evil idea. They like positive/negative better, is that your preference as well?

2. Acceptance for one. Look how long it's taken for Sgt. Stewart to get a Pentacle on his headstone. It's hard to get accepted even in death. Another thing is environmentalism and protection of endangered species and much more. The human race tends to rape this planet and it's the only home we have. We honor it and want it taken care of.

Acceptance is what everyone wants to some degree or another. I am glad you choose to care for the planet. I think that is also a good idea.

3. The overwhelming feeling of connection to everyone and everything. To be able to feel and know that the Divine runs through me and everyone around me. To feel a part of All.

this almost sounds like some of the eastern mystic religions, are there any similarities?

 

[Gentoo]

What do you call someone who for whatever reason decides to be a serial killer or something of that nature? I would think of them as a force for evil. They clearly aren't trying to do anything good.

May I?

In most situations, there is no one driving that serial killer but himself. If I do something wrong, I need to take responsibility for what I've done rather than say "the Devil made me do it". Maybe the Devil did make him do it, but more often than not, he knew what he was doing.

These are just my thoughts...

Even though that was kinda disjointed, did that make any sense?

 

[Awen]

What do you call someone who for whatever reason decides to be a serial killer or something of that nature?...A couple of others have also taken issue with the good/evil idea. They like positive/negative better, is that your preference as well?

I'd call them human. In terms of good/bad, humans are capable of both.

As such, and like Gentoo said, this means that we are each responsible for our own actions and we must bear the relative consequences.

I like to think that we are guided by individual choice, rather than forces of good or evil...things aren't so black-and-white.

While I do prefer the use of terms such as 'positive'/'negative', I believe that it all comes down to intent. Sure, positive/negative intent exists, but as a whole, I strive for balance.

(Hope that makes sense!)

 

[Comprehend]

May I?

In most situations, there is no one driving that serial killer but himself. If I do something wrong, I need to take responsibility for what I've done rather than say "the Devil made me do it". Maybe the Devil did make him do it, but more often than not, he knew what he was doing.

These are just my thoughts...

Even though that was kinda disjointed, did that make any sense?

Yes, it makes sense. I think I didn't ask the question very good though. I will try again. I believe that person is responsible for their actions too. I didn't mean that there was an outside evil force acting upon them (although personally I believe that can happen as I believe there is a devil) but that in your system of belief, wouldn't the person themselves be a force for evil if it was their intent to cause random horror and death?

 

[Draka]

What do you call someone who for whatever reason decides to be a serial killer or something of that nature? I would think of them as a force for evil. They clearly aren't trying to do anything good. A couple of others have also taken issue with the good/evil idea. They like positive/negative better, is that your preference as well?


Acceptance is what everyone wants to some degree or another. I am glad you choose to care for the planet. I think that is also a good idea.


this almost sounds like some of the eastern mystic religions, are there any similarities?

I don't think someone just "decides" to be a serial killer. You become one. I don't believe in "evil", but I do believe corrupting the mind of someone to the point that they can no longer function as a balanced individual capable of making decisions for the good of themselves and others. People who grow up to be something horrendous don't just wake up one day and become a tool of "evil". They become that way through years of not being able to cope with whatever life deals them. Psychology plays a lot into it. I also think that people do have free will and can just do stupid crap they shouldn't. It's not a matter of good and evil.

As for the last comment, I guess you could say so. Pagans have differing beliefs, even within the same pagan religions. I believe in a Divine Source, an energy of sorts that flows through and is a part of everything. I believe the gods to be manifestations of that force that attune to our minds in order to communicate the greater understanding accumulated by the whole. I realize that may sound confusing, and believe me it's confusing to try to describe, but that's the best I can do on the spot. If I took some more time and perhaps gathered some writings from my BOS then I might make it more understandable.

 

[Mike182]

Thanks for the questions, and a special thanks for asking them in a very respectful manor!

1. As you see your religion, is it meant to be a force for good or evil? Why? i'm not sure how to answer this.... is fire meant for good or evil? fire just is, and we use it for many different things - some of those things are good, some bad. without wanting to over simplify Paganism, it's the same as the fire example - the Pagan religion just is, and people can take it and use it how ever they want - as with all religions, individual Christians may use the authority in a corrupt, nigh on evil manor, but that does not say anything about the Christian religion, only that individual person.

in general though, Pagan morality is geared towards doing good, with ideas like Karma, the laws of return (if you don't know what that is, it's the idea that the results of our actions will be repaid to us three fold, so if i do good deeds, i should be rewarded in some way that is good, and if i do bad deeds, i should be rewarded in some way that is bad, relative to the initial deed.... it's not an exact science, and it can't be predicted, it doesn't necessarily have to be in the physical world.... someone else might be better at explaining that lol)

2. What do you see the Pagan community working towards? the Pagan community doesn't really unite as one community, we don't know how many of us there are nor which traditions and practices are most popular. i would hope that individual Pagans and individual Pagan communities work for the greatest good they can achieve.

3. What about your religion makes you the most happy? the diversity of it, i can believe in one set of beliefs and my Pagan brethren may believe something entirely different, but we still celebrate each other - our religion encompasses diversity, making it a very open and tollerant religion which has a great appeal to me!

if you would like me to expand anywhere, please just ask, and blessed be!

 

[Draka]

Yes, it makes sense. I think I didn't ask the question very good though. I will try again. I believe that person is responsible for their actions too. I didn't mean that there was an outside evil force acting upon them (although personally I believe that can happen as I believe there is a devil) but that in your system of belief, wouldn't the person themselves be a force for evil if it was their intent to cause random horror and death?

Not if you don't believe in evil. They are an anomoly. A destructive person. I sick person. A menace. But are not a "force of evil". That thought lends itself to the belief that there is an evil being that guides and directs evil-doings and revels in our destruction. That is not a belief we care to hold.

 

[Gentoo]

Yes, it makes sense. I think I didn't ask the question very good though. I will try again. I believe that person is responsible for their actions too. I didn't mean that there was an outside evil force acting upon them (although personally I believe that can happen as I believe there is a devil) but that in your system of belief, wouldn't the person themselves be a force for evil if it was their intent to cause random horror and death?

Oohh... I understand now...

Hmm...

I hesitate to say that they would be a force for evil, the terminology of "evil" for one, it's too restricting to me. On the spectrum of good and evil, I have a hard time believing that anyone can be completely on either side: good people have their bad points, just as bad people have their good points (of course, good and bad are used relatively).

So to be a true force for evil, even within the serial killer example, they would have to have absolutely NO redeeming qualities about them. Even though he did kill multiple people, maybe he did it quickly or while the victims were sleeping... the suffering would have been less, whether the killer meant that or not.

 

[Mike182]

Oohh... I understand now...

Hmm...

I hesitate to say that they would be a force for evil, the terminology of "evil" for one, it's too restricting to me. On the spectrum of good and evil, I have a hard time believing that anyone can be completely on either side: good people have their bad points, just as bad people have their good points (of course, good and bad are used relatively).

So to be a true force for evil, even within the serial killer example, they would have to have absolutely NO redeeming qualities about them. Even though he did kill multiple people, maybe he did it quickly or while the victims were sleeping... the suffering would have been less, whether the killer meant that or not.

one could almost look at it as a balance - yes, this example is full of bad things that would heavily tilt the scales towards *evil*, but he may have also shown love and care for his sick mother, putting some weight onto the *good* side - my point being that you are right, no one is completely on the *evil* side, everyone has some *good* in them.