Pagans with a purpose?

[Gentoo]

one could almost look at it as a balance - yes, this example is full of bad things that would heavily tilt the scales towards *evil*, but he may have also shown love and care for his sick mother, putting some weight onto the *good* side - my point being that you are right, no one is completely on the *evil* side, everyone has some *good* in them.

That is exactly what I was trying to say

 

[Comprehend]

I don't think someone just "decides" to be a serial killer. You become one. I don't believe in "evil", but I do believe corrupting the mind of someone to the point that they can no longer function as a balanced individual capable of makes decisions for the good of themselves and others. People who grow up to be something horrendous don't just wake up one day and become a tool of "evil". They become that way through years of not being able to cope with whatever life deals them. Psychology plays a lot into it. I also think that people do have free will and can just do stupid crap they shouldn't. It's not a matter of good and evil.

As for the last comment, I guess you could say so. Pagans have differing beliefs, even within the same pagan religions. I believe in a Divine Source, an energy of sorts that flows through and is a part of everything. I believe the gods to be manifestations of that force that attune to our minds in order to communicate the greater understanding accumulated by the whole. I realize that may sound confusing, and believe me it's confusing to try to describe, but that's the best I can do on the spot. If I took some more time and perhaps gathered some writings from my BOS then I might make it more understandable.

Draka, thanks for the info. You do a good job of explaining it. I think I am understanding the good and evil. rather than having some iron clad morality associated with actions, each action either has a net positive or negative effect but each dependant upon the situation and the perspective of the doer. (If I am getting it).

Actually the second paragraph about the Divine Source is quite understandable to me. I believe that what mormons call the Holy Ghost functions in much the same way and for a similar purpose. You have done a great job explaining this, I feel like I am beginning to grasp the basics ! (I'm excited).

 

[Feathers in Hair]

In some branches of Buddhism, there's a really good explanation of my approach to good and evil. Instead of those terms, there are things that are 'wise' decisions and thing that are 'unwise'. For example, saying that stealing is evil does not say why it's bad. Saying that stealing is an unwise choice helps one to realize that the alternative can be chosen. (In this case, either 'not stealing' or 'giving'.) There's a better explanation of this approach in several places, I'm sure, but I'm trying to explain it from my perspective.

 

[Comprehend]

Thanks for the questions, and a special thanks for asking them in a very respectful manor!

No problem

1. As you see your religion, is it meant to be a force for good or evil? Why? i'm not sure how to answer this.... is fire meant for good or evil? fire just is, and we use it for many different things - some of those things are good, some bad. without wanting to over simplify Paganism, it's the same as the fire example - the Pagan religion just is, and people can take it and use it how ever they want - as with all religions, individual Christians may use the authority in a corrupt, nigh on evil manor, but that does not say anything about the Christian religion, only that individual person.

The fire analogy is excellent. I agree, what individuals do reflects upon the individual.

in general though, Pagan morality is geared towards doing good, with ideas like Karma, the laws of return (if you don't know what that is, it's the idea that the results of our actions will be repaid to us three fold, so if i do good deeds, i should be rewarded in some way that is good, and if i do bad deeds, i should be rewarded in some way that is bad, relative to the initial deed.... it's not an exact science, and it can't be predicted, it doesn't necessarily have to be in the physical world.... someone else might be better at explaining that lol)

I have picked up on this just by reading all of your posts in other forums. It is quickly very obvious that you all are interesting in doing good.

2. What do you see the Pagan community working towards? the Pagan community doesn't really unite as one community, we don't know how many of us there are nor which traditions and practices are most popular. i would hope that individual Pagans and individual Pagan communities work for the greatest good they can achieve.

Makes sense to me with a religion that has so much lattitude with everything that it would be geared more towards individual or small group practice rather than large communities of like minded followers.

3. What about your religion makes you the most happy? the diversity of it, i can believe in one set of beliefs and my Pagan brethren may believe something entirely different, but we still celebrate each other - our religion encompasses diversity, making it a very open and tollerant religion which has a great appeal to me!

if you would like me to expand anywhere, please just ask, and blessed be!

This has definitely been my favorite question to ask, I can almost feel the happy feeling you guys have when you wrote your answers. I too cherish liberty and tolerance. It is great to continue learning about you all. thanks tons for the answers and all the time you take.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Is God a sentient essence or is it more like a force? (feel free to laugh if that was a stupid word to use)

Actually, I've wondered if God couldn't just be considered a force, so I don't think it was stupid at all. If I accept that God objectively doesn't exist, and that It was instead a meaningful symbol for me, then that God would be more like a force (perhaps with my sentience behind it?).

But since I assume that God objectively exists as the subjective force of the Universe, I must assume that It is sentient in some way.

Btw, I'm impressed at your sincerity, openness, and polite manner.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

What do you call someone who for whatever reason decides to be a serial killer or something of that nature? I would think of them as a force for evil. They clearly aren't trying to do anything good. A couple of others have also taken issue with the good/evil idea. They like positive/negative better, is that your preference as well?

While I remain open to the idea that there may be an external evil force at work (I can certainly think of some example), I am more willing to accept that person as misguided. I personally don't believe that humans have complete free will (more of a semi-freewill), so why a serial killer kills may not be completely his or her thought. It may have to do with biology, genetics, psychology, or maybe spirituality (philosophy?).

Either way, I think there is the possibility of forgiveness for such a person.

 

[Comprehend]

Not if you don't believe in evil. They are an anomoly. A destructive person. I sick person. A menace. But are not a "force of evil". That thought lends itself to the belief that there is an evil being that guides and directs evil-doings and revels in our destruction. That is not a belief we care to hold.

ok. *brain hurts* this is a difficult concept. I will keep pondering how it works. thanks draka

 

[Comprehend]

Oohh... I understand now...

Hmm...

I hesitate to say that they would be a force for evil, the terminology of "evil" for one, it's too restricting to me. On the spectrum of good and evil, I have a hard time believing that anyone can be completely on either side: good people have their bad points, just as bad people have their good points (of course, good and bad are used relatively).

So to be a true force for evil, even within the serial killer example, they would have to have absolutely NO redeeming qualities about them. Even though he did kill multiple people, maybe he did it quickly or while the victims were sleeping... the suffering would have been less, whether the killer meant that or not.

AAAAHHH Gentoo !!! I get it. I see how you guys look at this !

*wipes perspiration from forehead*

It was starting to hurt my brain :bonk:

 

[Comprehend]

since I assume that God objectively exists as the subjective force of the Universe, I must assume that It is sentient in some way.

Could you explain what a subjective force would be. I am picturing a kind of divine will that permeates the Universe and somehow influences our beings to do or be positive?

Assuming that this force is sentient, would you say that it has a will and if so does it activily work to achieve it's will (or influence us as it may be)?

Btw, I'm impressed at your sincerity, openness, and polite manner.

And I am likewise impressed with all of you. I keep shaking my head as I get to know all everyone. I would be quite embarrased to tell you what I thought pagans were like before I found this forum (so I won't ) BUT, you guys have quickly changed my mind and I am happy to learn.

 

[Draka]

Could you explain what a subjective force would be. I am picturing a kind of divine will that permeates the Universe and somehow influences our beings to do or be positive?

Assuming that this force is sentient, would you say that it has a will and if so does it activily work to achieve it's will (or influence us as it may be)?

I'm going to try to field this as best I can. Again, there's no gaurantee that what I will say is what others believe. I'll just tell you how I think of it. I use the words Divine and Source interchangably

I don't really think of the Divine as a sentient being in and of itself. More of an energy that permeates and creates and is made up of all life at the same time, throughout the universe. Being a part of everything, the spark of life itself, it is hard to say that it has a voice or mind of its own. I consider our spirits to be but mere small parts of this Source. Therefore, since we are all linked, and are contributing parts of ourselves and our knowledge, it is us that fuels the knowledge of the Source, along with all other life. When we are in great need or want to communicate with the Divine we call upon certain aspects of the Divine. Asking for certain knowledge. What is revealed to us is, of course, in a manner that we understand...which is why there are so many differing tales of revealed inspiration. What we see, be it particular gods or goddesses or angels or however they appear, are merely the manifestations of what we allow our minds to perceive. We are a part of the Divine, so our own minds feed what we are capable of handling being presented to us. If my mind is open to seeing a beautiful goddess present herself with the information or guidance I seek, then I will most likely see that. If you are conditioned or open to seeing what you perceive as an angel, then that is what you will see. We are, in essence, fueling the manner in which we will be communicated to. It is up to us to determine how we use the information and guidance presented to us.

Again, I hope I make some sense here and just haven't rattled on with no one understanding what I'm trying to say. My beliefs are my own and I don't expect anyone else here to agree with me at all. I may just be crazy...who knows?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

1. As you see your religion, is it meant to be a force for good or evil? Why?

2. What do you see the Pagan community working towards?

3. What about your religion makes you the most happy?

1. My religion views "Good and Evil" as nothing more than words. But in the general cense, it would be good.

2. One thing I do is educating others, and dispelling myths about Paganism.

3. No one is accused of "believing wrong,"and abstaning from alot of the world is not required.

 

[Comprehend]

In some branches of Buddhism, there's a really good explanation of my approach to good and evil. Instead of those terms, there are things that are 'wise' decisions and thing that are 'unwise'. For example, saying that stealing is evil does not say why it's bad. Saying that stealing is an unwise choice helps one to realize that the alternative can be chosen. (In this case, either 'not stealing' or 'giving'.) There's a better explanation of this approach in several places, I'm sure, but I'm trying to explain it from my perspective.

I like that. Wise decisions. I think my mother would tell you I mostly made "unwise" decisions as a kid . I like that it shows you options just by the nature of the term. also it sounds really cool like the karate kid master is teaching you something, while saying something is bad sounds like you are talking to a kid.

 

[Gentoo]

AAAAHHH Gentoo !!! I get it. I see how you guys look at this !

*wipes perspiration from forehead*

It was starting to hurt my brain :bonk:

I'm more than happy to help

 

[Comprehend]

I'm going to try to field this as best I can. Again, there's no gaurantee that what I will say is what others believe. I'll just tell you how I think of it. I use the words Divine and Source interchangably

I don't really think of the Divine as a sentient being in and of itself. More of an energy that permeates and creates and is made up of all life at the same time, throughout the universe. Being a part of everything, the spark of life itself, it is hard to say that it has a voice or mind of its own. I consider our spirits to be but mere small parts of this Source. Therefore, since we are all linked, and are contributing parts of ourselves and our knowledge, it is us that fuels the knowledge of the Source, along with all other life. When we are in great need or want to communicate with the Divine we call upon certain aspects of the Divine. Asking for certain knowledge. What is revealed to us is, of course, in a manner that we understand...which is why there are so many differing tales of revealed inspiration. What we see, be it particular gods or goddesses or angels or however they appear, are merely the manifestations of what we allow our minds to perceive. We are a part of the Divine, so our own minds feed what we are capable of handling being presented to us. If my mind is open to seeing a beautiful goddess present herself with the information or guidance I seek, then I will most likely see that. If you are conditioned or open to seeing what you perceive as an angel, then that is what you will see. We are, in essence, fueling the manner in which we will be communicated to. It is up to us to determine how we use the information and guidance presented to us.

Again, I hope I make some sense here and just haven't rattled on with no one understanding what I'm trying to say. My beliefs are my own and I don't expect anyone else here to agree with me at all. I may just be crazy...who knows?

Draka - I think that sounds very cool. It is almost like a metaphysical internet where we are all connected, sharing and contributing (except you said it much more eloquently). I love it.

 

[Comprehend]

1. My religion views "Good and Evil" as nothing more than words. But in the general cense, it would be good.

2. One thing I do is educating others, and dispelling myths about Paganism.

3. No one is accused of "believing wrong,"and abstaning from alot of the world is not required.

well there is plenty of work for you to do dispelling myths. that is a much needed service in the Pagan world.

very cool answers. thanks Luke.

 

[BFD_Zayl]

Hey everyone. This is my first visit into this area and I have zero understanding of anything you guys practice. I have thought of a few questions that I thought would be interesting to know.

Please forgive me if I say something ignorant or offensive, it is not intended. Feel free to answer any single question or all of them.

1. As you see your religion, is it meant to be a force for good or evil? Why?

2. What do you see the Pagan community working towards?

3. What about your religion makes you the most happy?

P.S. I have already met a few of you and appreciate your kindness.

1. as others have said "good" and "evil" are points of perspective, but i guess you could say i work between the two. trying to keep a balance if you will.
2. hopefully towards unity and a better tomorrow, but alot of pagan groups are to far apart and lack the proper funding at the moment to do so.
3.i would not say it makes me happy...im content with the knowledge i get from it though, it is a very tedious path and you have to work hard, but it is rewarding in the end.

 

[Pardus]

1. As you see your religion, is it meant to be a force for good or evil? Why?
What are these concepts? I have never experienced good or evil.

2. What do you see the Pagan community working towards?
Not much of anything, it is not a religion of comformity therefore its members do not conform to one purpose.

3. What about your religion makes you the most happy?
It is not about happiness, it is about what works for me.

 

[Kay]

As for my own belief, I am panentheistic, meaning I see God as the spiritual (subjective) essense of the Universe. Therefore, God is a part of Nature (as well as us and all life).

:yes: