[Pagans] Fluff Bunnies

[Liu]

Am I welcome to comment in this thread? The OP sounds like it, the title doesn't, and some other comments here were not quite welcoming to my kind either.
On the other hand, these comments contained some misconceptions about my religion which I would gladly point out.

I could also tell you what a fluffy-bunny is in Satanism, but after reading this whole thread I still have only a vague idea of what it is in Paganism.

But before I know whether I'm welcome here I'll just reply to another question.

A variation of the word Satan means "truth" in Sanksrit, which is an Indo-European language..

What word is that?

To still your curiosity, he surely means "sat". It's a verbal root meaning "to be" (it's related to English "is"), but nominalized it means "being", "existence" and a whole bunch of other things, "truth" being among them.
Since Satanism is not bound to the Abrahamic religions, some of us find it reassuring to find other "origins" of our deity's name - however, there is no historical connection between these words, that's simply not how languages work. "sat" isn't even pronounced similarly, it's rather like "set" (don't get started on Set now, though, that's even more unlikely).

If you heathens wanna find a word in another language that is pronounced like Satan, you don't have too search that far away, just look at Old Norse, there we have the word "sátan" which is pronounced quite like in Hebrew. The problem? It means "the truss of hay"

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Am I welcome to comment in this thread? The OP sounds like it, the title doesn't, and some other comments here were not quite welcoming to my kind either.

I wouldn't mind cassandra; I think this was moved out of the Pagan DIR. The rest I can get to after work.

Sent from Windows 10 Mobile

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

I could also tell you what a fluffy-bunny is in Satanism, but after reading this whole thread I still have only a vague idea of what it is in Paganism.

For the most part (for those of us who use the phrase) it has a couple qualifying traits:
1. "Harry Potter" magic, and the insistence upon an individual's ability to cast it.
2. Ignore advice (especially advice asked for) and continuing with fantasy/wild-off Unverified Personal Gnosis (e.g. having intimate relations with a deity), gross misconception/misrepresentation (e.g. claims of "super curses" or extra-human ability), etc.

It's not often used to describe people - in my experience - so much as it describes actions and beliefs. While some may argue that it's bigoted to criticize belief in such a manner, there's a strong difference between believing in a god and believing that Dobby's spirit taught you the avadakedava, so people had better respect you. (Yes, I have encountered someone who claimed this.)

To still your curiosity, he surely means "sat". It's a verbal root meaning "to be" (it's related to English "is"), but nominalized it means "being", "existence" and a whole bunch of other things, "truth" being among them.
Since Satanism is not bound to the Abrahamic religions, some of us find it reassuring to find other "origins" of our deity's name - however, there is no historical connection between these words, that's simply not how languages work.

Trying to understand the motive here; why call it an origin, then? Satan is known to be a Hebrew word - that is it's origin without contest. I can (somewhat) understand cultural parallels in that of figures, but to me claiming that Satan has Hindu roots due to this word "sat" is... well the only word that comes to mind is inaccurate. As you've stated, that's not how language works.

If you heathens wanna find a word in another language that is pronounced like Satan, you don't have too search that far away, just look at Old Norse, there we have the word "sátan" which is pronounced quite like in Hebrew. The problem? It means "the truss of hay"

I always thought that the Hebrew word was pronounced "say-tan". If I'm reading it right, that word would be "soh-tan", I think? Oddly enough, I'm not the best at Old Norse yet. Mostly just Russian :/

 

[Liu]

I wouldn't mind cassandra; I think this was moved out of the Pagan DIR.

Still, it's in the Same Faith Debates, so I'm not sure. But whatever, if I shall not post here the admins shall tell me.

For the most part (for those of us who use the phrase) it has a couple qualifying traits:
1. "Harry Potter" magic, and the insistence upon an individual's ability to cast it.
2. Ignore advice (especially advice asked for) and continuing with fantasy/wild-off Unverified Personal Gnosis (e.g. having intimate relations with a deity), gross misconception/misrepresentation (e.g. claims of "super curses" or extra-human ability), etc.

It's not often used to describe people - in my experience - so much as it describes actions and beliefs. While some may argue that it's bigoted to criticize belief in such a manner, there's a strong difference between believing in a god and believing that Dobby's spirit taught you the avadakedava, so people had better respect you. (Yes, I have encountered someone who claimed this.)

Thanks for the summary. There are some similarities in this to what we call a fluff bunny in Satanism, but also some differences.
Similar is certainly the denial of facts. However, living in a fantasy world often rather makes one a inverse-Christian than a very fluffy person.

Also, I wouldn't call someone a fluff bunny just because they have UPGs, that would make pretty much any occultist one. Fluffy about it is when one doesn't recognize their UPGs as such but strongly believes in them to be objectively true without making any attempt of searching for further, more objective, proofs.

But the core of being a fluffy Satanist is unreflectively believing in absolute morals. In my opinion, amorality (or subjectivity of morality) is one of the main aspects of Satanistic philosophy, so if someone has a strong moral dualism (no matter which side they consider themselves to be on), it's a clear sign of them being beginners, and if they see themselves as the good fighting against those evil Abrahamics, or something along those lines, then they are fluff bunnies (in the other case, inverse-Christians).

It also for example includes claims like "a real Satanist would never sacrifice an animal" without giving further reasons or without saying that this is only true for their own personal kind of Satanism, not for Satanism in general.

I'm not saying that anyone who strongly believes in some kind of absolute morals is no true Satanist - I have met several online who have a few absolute morals (e.g. "torture is always wrong"), but they came to such conclusions not just by a mix of their upbringing and their spontaneous feelings, but rather by actual self-reflection, so I can respect them even though I may disagree.

Technically one could also include all those who white-wash our deity, i.e. who only want to associate Satan with "positive" attributes, saying he is just misunderstood or misrepresented by mainstream religions. That would be a huge majority of the Luciferians, though, and could also be considered a legitimate belief, so I wouldn't use the insult of fluff-bunny on them, as fluffy as they look like to me.

Trying to understand the motive here; why call it an origin, then? Satan is known to be a Hebrew word - that is it's origin without contest. I can (somewhat) understand cultural parallels in that of figures, but to me claiming that Satan has Hindu roots due to this word "sat" is... well the only word that comes to mind is inaccurate. As you've stated, that's not how language works.

That's why I put "origin" in quotation marks. It's not about the actual historic origin (at least it wouldn't for me), but about finding a justification of using a name when one's religion has nothing to do with the culture this name stems from (or at least not more than with other cultures). Nothing but word-games, though.

I always thought that the Hebrew word was pronounced "say-tan". If I'm reading it right, that word would be "soh-tan", I think? Oddly enough, I'm not the best at Old Norse yet. Mostly just Russian :/

I don't know any Hebrew, so my guess on the pronunciation might be wrong - I just went by the Latin, Greek and German pronunciation, assuming it must be closer than at least the English one. I think "shay-tan" is the Arabic pronunciation.

My Old Norse is much better than my Hebrew, and the "á" is just a long a, like in "father". At least that's what my textbooks told me, it might differ from dialect to dialect.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Also, I wouldn't call someone a fluff bunny just because they have UPGs, that would make pretty much any occultist one. Fluffy about it is when one doesn't recognize their UPGs as such but strongly believes in them to be objectively true without making any attempt of searching for further, more objective, proofs.

Well, there's certainly that, yes. But also MUS (Made Up [REDACTED]) that is insisted upon as true (e.g. "How do you know that's not the case?") when told by multiple people that it's not possible or inaccurate. It's not just UPG - hell, I've had those. As an example, there was a girl on a Pagan chat site that I'm on who insisted upon her overly personal and loving relationship... with the Morrighan. A Celtic goddess of war and death. Literally not your best friend in life, but the one who takes you from this world when you fall in battle. She was painting her as some loving, mother goddess when she had multiple Pagans - those knowledgeable of Celtic myth, and even a few Druids themselves - telling her that what she was telling us was nothing more than a fantasy. Politely, at fist, but a little more firm when she resorted to name-calling and insults.

That's a sure way to recognize a "fluffy" person; someone who lashes out with insults when presented with criticism.

Technically one could also include all those who white-wash our deity, i.e. who only want to associate Satan with "positive" attributes, saying he is just misunderstood or misrepresented by mainstream religions.

Those are what I call "Love & Light," and honestly I hold them in as much disdain as I do fluffies. As I've said before and will always, life isn't a Disney movie.

For the origins of Satan, and that whole discussion, I may start a topic elsewhere to carry on that conversation. I've much to weigh in on it, a few criticisms (constructive) to give, and feel that there's much to discuss that several people could benefit from.

I think "shay-tan" is the Arabic pronunciation.

Pretty sure that's the Sean Connery pronunciation