Pagan influence on Christianity

[Unveiled Artist]

That's not true. The Wicca religion was not a native religion like the Native Americans it's new. Peep in my UU church which is Pagan claim it as Pagan.

I've been taught at church there are 2 different definitions or 3 definitions of Pagan. The actual original definition of Pagan is people from the country.

Also some believe if you believe in multiple Gods you ate earth based or Pagan so that would include Hinduism.

Some people define Paganism as any religion at all outside of the Christian Judeo Muslim belief system.

Paganism with an upper P are religions like Heatherny, Wica, Druid, and other Eureopean religions.

paganism with a lower case p I am referring to indigenous religions that are native to that land.

For example, Roman Paganism is a Pagan (upper case) religion. Christianity has paganism in it because it is not a religion that is native to the land. It's a mix of religions and pagan traditions but I haven't read about christian history so much to know which Pagan (big P) traditions are specifically in Christianity.

When Christians speak of paganism, they aren't speaking of Wiccan, Druid, Heatherny, etc. They are speaking of what they think pagans/idengenous traditions believe and they define it all as polytheism and worshiping people and statues.

That could be in some Pagan religions. I am not a Pagan, I'm a pagan; so, I wouldn't know.

The cap P is thanks to @Quintessence for describing the differences.

In my words, Christians are referring to indigenous faiths anywhere around the globe not European traditions prior to Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

If you include the Baha'i Faith has pagan beliefs you will have document by references, and unfounded assertions.

Unless your religion started in 2017, or maybe after the 1900s, the cultures and traditions native to your faith are considered pagan (indigenous practices).

You don't have Eureopean origin; so, you're not Pagan. You do have traditions, so, yes, you have paganism in your religion. I can go online and pick out the traditions you have native to where your religion started.

Unless you're saying your religion is so new that it has no resemblance to any traditions of the land it originated from?

 

[Muslim-UK]

Do some forms of paganism acknowledge single God above all creation?

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Many christians are referring to paganism not Paganism as individual religions with their own practices with most Christians probably have no clue what they practice.

And that's the problem. The inclusion of an -ism indicates a way of thinking or a system. When christians talk about "pagans" they're flatly meaning non-christians. Practically, there's no such think as "paganism" (little P) because it's too broad. What's more, many of the religions included in this "paganism" do not identify as pagan or view their religions as paganism.

Also (for posterity) Paganism being Euro-centric doesn't meant that only Europeans can practice it; I know many Mexican Heathens. But they're worshiping European Gods in a European faith culture, not making it a syncretism with their native culture.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

And that's the problem. The inclusion of an -ism indicates a way of thinking or a system. When christians talk about "pagans" they're flatly meaning non-christians. Practically, there's no such think as "paganism" (little P) because it's too broad. What's more, many of the religions included in this "paganism" do not identify as pagan or view their religions as paganism.

Also (for posterity) Paganism being Euro-centric doesn't meant that only Europeans can practice it; I know many Mexican Heathens. But they're worshiping European Gods in a European faith culture, not making it a syncretism with their native culture.

Actually being in a christian everywhere where you wake up smelling christians, when christians say paganism, they actually mean you worship people, statues, believe in multiple gods, and practice witchcraft. If you tell them you are Muslim or Jewish, they don't say you are pagan but just a sinner going to hell (some of them) or like my friend earlier, a fall away catholic that will one day find god and come back to Mass.

I have a high bet that no Christian here knows anything about heathentry. When I said Spiritualist, they thought I worshiped spirits and that is when they call me pagan.

It's specifically have to do with witchcraft and practices that the bible forbids. If the bible doesn't forbid it, they just nod and think you are going the wrong path. When you say something witchy, then it's pagan.

I have yet to meet a Christian in all the years of my life that associated paganism as just "someone who isn't christian." The bible doesn't even refer to pagans like that anyway.

It's a totally different context than what Pagans or European pre-christian practitioners may be thinking of.

 

[shunyadragon]

Unless your religion started in 2017, or maybe after the 1900s, the cultures and traditions native to your faith are considered pagan (indigenous practices).

You don't have Eureopean origin; so, you're not Pagan. You do have traditions, so, yes, you have paganism in your religion. I can go online and pick out the traditions you have native to where your religion started.

Unless you're saying your religion is so new that it has no resemblance to any traditions of the land it originated from?

If you include the Baha'i Faith has pagan beliefs you will have document by references, and not unfounded assertions.

Still waiting . . .

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Actually being in a christian everywhere where you wake up smelling christians, when christians say paganism, they actually mean you worship people, statues, believe in multiple gods, and practice witchcraft. If you tell them you are Muslim or Jewish, they don't say you are pagan but just a sinner going to hell (some of them) or like my friend earlier, a fall away catholic that will one day find god and come back to Mass.

I've seen Evangelicals (the people who are most prone to using "pagan" derogatorily) call Jews and Muslims - and even Catholics - pagans. There's even a throw-away line in an episode of South Park where Mr. Garrison tells Sheila Broflovski (the town Jews) "I guess this is what happens when you raise your kid to be pagan."

I have yet to meet a Christian in all the years of my life that associated paganism as just "someone who isn't christian." The bible doesn't even refer to pagans like that anyway.

Technically the bible doesn't mention pagans at all. But when someone uses the term "pagan(ism)" to everything from Lacota beliefs to Hinduism, that's associating "pagan(ism)" as another word for "non-christian".

 

[shunyadragon]

Salam/Hello

I understand the The Bahai religion is based on pure Monotheism. Which one of these 'Pagan' beliefs, present in Judaism, Christianity and Islam go against the teachings of the Most High? Which ones, if any in your opinion fly in the face of pure Monotheism and why.

Thanks

Specifically the belief in all three that Genesis, and the Pentateuch are literal scripture as Revelation and the consequences of those beliefs.

Judaism has backed way from this in recent centuries appealing to Midrash. Christians and Muslims often question or reject evolution based on Genesis.

In Christianity the belief in inherited guilt, incarnation of God, and the Tritheism of Trinity. are inherited pagan beliefs.

 

[shunyadragon]

I've seen Evangelicals (the people who are most prone to using "pagan" derogatorily) call Jews and Muslims - and even Catholics - pagans. There's even a throw-away line in an episode of South Park where Mr. Garrison tells Sheila Broflovski (the town Jews) "I guess this is what happens when you raise your kid to be pagan."

Technically the bible doesn't mention pagans at all. But when someone uses the term "pagan(ism)" to everything from Lacota beliefs to Hinduism, that's associating "pagan(ism)" as another word for "non-christian".

Yes, when the word is used in the older sense, but I use pagan in terms of Judaism Christianity and Islam as the corruption of religion,and not in a derogatory sense as in Native religions. Actually in relation to Judaism, Christianity and Islam I am referring Canaanite, Ugarit, Babylonian, Roman pagan beliefs.

As a Baha'i I believe all religions throughout the history of humanity including Native religions are founded in Revelation, but later corrupted by pagan beliefs. I realize I may have not been clear on this distinction in the past. I apologize.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

If you include the Baha'i Faith has pagan beliefs you will have document by references, and not unfounded assertions.

Still waiting . . .

Sheesh!!!!!

Your traditions are paganism. They are traditions that are native to your land.

Do you mean to tell me your religion is so new that it has no background from its original place the faith was born?

 

[shunyadragon]

Sheesh!!!!!

Your traditions are paganism. They are traditions that are native to your land.

Do you mean to tell me your religion is so new that it has no background from its original place the faith was born?

If you include the Baha'i Faith has pagan beliefs you will have to document by references, and not unfounded assertions.

Still waiting . . .

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I've seen Evangelicals (the people who are most prone to using "pagan" derogatorily) call Jews and Muslims - and even Catholics - pagans. There's even a throw-away line in an episode of South Park where Mr. Garrison tells Sheila Broflovski (the town Jews) "I guess this is what happens when you raise your kid to be pagan."


Technically the bible doesn't mention pagans at all. But when someone uses the term "pagan(ism)" to everything from Lacota beliefs to Hinduism, that's associating "pagan(ism)" as another word for "non-christian".

We live in different areas. In the bible, pagans are referred to as idol worshipers. It's used in the OT quite a bit.

Not European traditions just people who worship idols, practice witchcraft, and so forth. Same as homosexuality. They put everything under one umbrella and don't research the meaning of the word and the practitioners who practice it.

That and I never heard christians call Jews pagans only Catholics and JW and other people with liturgical faiths. Depends.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

If you include the Baha'i Faith has pagan beliefs you will have document by references, and not unfounded assertions.

Still waiting . . .

Do not bold your writing.

Read my definition of paganism.

Are you saying that your religion is so new it has no history and connection to which Bahai religion originated?

(No, you are not Eureopean Pagans. Stop asking)

 

[Unveiled Artist]

If you include the Baha'i Faith has pagan beliefs you will have document by references, and not unfounded assertions.

Still waiting . . .

Do not bold your writing.

Read my definition of paganism.

Are you saying that your religion is so new it has no history and connection to which Bahai religion originated?

(No, you are not European Pagans. Stop asking)

 

[Riders]

Paganism with an upper P are religions like Heatherny, Wica, Druid, and other Eureopean religions.

paganism with a lower case p I am referring to indigenous religions that are native to that land.

For example, Roman Paganism is a Pagan (upper case) religion. Christianity has paganism in it because it is not a religion that is native to the land. It's a mix of religions and pagan traditions but I haven't read about christian history so much to know which Pagan (big P) traditions are specifically in Christianity.

When Christians speak of paganism, they aren't speaking of Wiccan, Druid, Heatherny, etc. They are speaking of what they think pagans/idengenous traditions believe and they define it all as polytheism and worshiping people and statues.

That could be in some Pagan religions. I am not a Pagan, I'm a pagan; so, I wouldn't know.

The cap P is thanks to @Quintessence for describing the differences.

In my words, Christians are referring to indigenous faiths anywhere around the globe not European traditions prior to Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.

Mio Thanks for clearing that uo.However I don't remember responding to the capital p vs little p anyways thanks for the info.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Mio Thanks for clearing that uo.However I don't remember responding to the capital p vs little p anyways thanks for the info.

Yeah. Something I remembered from Quintessence. Kept it ever since. Shrugs.

 

[Augustus]

Jewish philosopher Philo was influenced by Plato, and the later Greek writer(s) of John's Gospel, took the same idea and made Jesus pbuh the Logos. John's creation account is said to mirror the story in Genesis, but there is no God besides God, no Word made incarnate. You can see how outside philosophy contributed to turning a Prophet of God into God Himself.

There are Hellenic influences on Christianity, why would anyone expect otherwise?

Islam didn't emerge out of a vacuum either.

Looking further, if we examine Sun worship and Mithraism/Sol Invictus we can see how many Pagan beliefs crossed over into Christianity.

Mithraism too

Going for the youtube full house?

#12zodiac12apostles

Who is the Qur'an talking to when it mentions the day of congregation? The Prophet pbuh of course, and what did the Prophet pbuh say regarding this day? At least 63 Hadiths, and that's just in Imam Buhkari's blessed collection:

13. Friday Prayer from Sahih Al-Bukhari translated by M. Muhsin Khan - Hadith (Hadis) Books

Hadith were recorded centuries after the fact based on tradition, contain stories about a rock with legs, flying donkeys, moons splitting in half and all other kinds of fantastical things.

The flying donkey and splitting moon are both mutawatir and thus the highest possible degree of authenticity. The rock that ran off with Moses' clothes is sahih.

If you want to believe that fair enough, no skin off my nose. People can believe whatever they like about things you can't 'prove' either way.

Why should non-Muslims trust your theology any more than you trust the theology of non-Muslims though?

It's just another religious tradition. You expect yours to get special treatment though.

No believing Jew in their right mind would drop the Sabbath in favour of a Pagan celebration of Sun worship including Jesus pbuh:

Well, the Arabs dropped the Sabbath and chose to honour the day of Venus - Roman Friday. Seems all is possible if you apply the same standards to both cases (i.e they din't honour the day of Venus, the 2 just coincided).

It's called supersessionism, as a Muslim you understand the concept.

Christianity and Islam are supersessionist, and thus change things about the 'inferior' religions they replaced.

 

[NayaVeda]

Give me commentary or something. I don't like guessing and getting into an argument if I don't know your two sentence point.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

What is your point?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

What is your point?

Don't feed the troll.