Pagan/Atheist Alliance?

[freethinker44]

I still don't get what sort of commonalities these two groups are supposed to inherently have. I'm not buying it.

It's just nice to have another group that we can share recipes for cooking babies with. For some reason, other groups frown on that sort of thing.

 

[gnomon]

Didn't know where else to post this, but for what it's worth I thought this was a great article.

Canadian Atheist: Is There an Unspoken Pagan/Atheist Alliance?



As an avowed atheist, I notice that I generally don't have any problems with most Pagans due to the fact that Paganism is more or less tolerant and accepting of all; there are gay pagans, transgender pagans, agnostic pagans, pantheistc pagans, deistic pagans, etc who all bring a different persepctive to the table.

I've had similarly positive experiences with most Buddhists.

No.

Atheism is not a religious organization like the various paganist religious organizations.

Personally, and at risk of RF pagans taking a stab at me, I have found the majority of pagans in the real world to be incredibly dull when regarding social and religious history. In other words, showing the same lack of proper knowledge of history of social and religious history while at the same time condemning the so called Christian militant dominance over Western Europe. In other words.......boring.

 

[Quintessence]

Pardon, sir gnomon, but what's "paganist?" Also, what organization? Where is it, because I must have missed it amongst all the cats scattering in wildly different directions...

On the fear of stabbing, don't worry. I don't stab people, even when I really, really want to. And yes, Neopagans typically don't have "proper knowledge" (though to be honest I'm not sure what you mean by that) of social/religious history. Neither do the overwhelming majority of people on this planet. Does that mean you find most people dull in general?

 

[Desert Snake]

Merry meet, I agree with Gnomon on this one. Close minded too.

 

[Quintessence]

Sorry, I think I missed the memo where being almost pathologically non-dogmatic was redefined as "closed-minded." Good gods, man, contemporary Paganism is so stupidly open-minded, the problem is it's brains falling out, not them being closed. Get it right, man.

 

[Desert Snake]

Semantics.

 

[Quintessence]

If you say so. But that was totally the LOLz of the day. Blew the LOLz at gnomon out of the water, no contest. I have heard many a criticism of Neopaganism - and have made many myself - and that has never, ever been among them. ROFLLOLZ. That's right up there with calling Unitarian Universalism "closed-minded." Massive LULZ.

 

[gnomon]

Pardon, sir gnomon, but what's "paganist?" Also, what organization? Where is it, because I must have missed it amongst all the cats scattering in wildly different directions...

On the fear of stabbing, don't worry. I don't stab people, even when I really, really want to. And yes, Neopagans typically don't have "proper knowledge" (though to be honest I'm not sure what you mean by that) of social/religious history. Neither do the overwhelming majority of people on this planet. Does that mean you find most people dull in general?

The stab is nothing more than disagreement with my response. Which is to be expected and I must say I must rightfully accept.

I am speaking from personal experience. Namely that personal experience that in the real world beyond forums every single pagan I have associated with, from friends and lovers, exhibited the same personality which is the dress in black, polish nails black, blame Christianity for everything, etc.

I think you would call them fluffy bunnies on one end or ... well, I don't know on the other end. Even on these forums I have seen Asatru member express the same incomplete knowledge of the progression of a religion such as Christianity throughout Europe and irresponsibly blaming cultural demise on the one hand as opposed to cultural mixing on the other.

I think true paganism is that which tries it's best to revive ancient religious concepts from multiple parts of the world, recognizes that pagan traditions from one culture are not the same as those from another based upon a generic definition of paganism and that there is zero equation with that of atheism.

 

[Desert Snake]

If you say so. But that was totally the LOLz of the day. Blew the LOLz at gnomon out of the water, no contest. I have heard many a criticism of Neopaganism - and have made many myself - and that has never, ever been among them. ROFLLOLZ. That's right up there with calling Unitarian Universalism "closed-minded." Massive LULZ.

I'm joking, neo-paganism is cool.

 

[Nayana]

In my experience and reading, Pagans and atheists rarely fight. In my opinion, atheist most usually have most of their disagreements with large organised religions, most notably Abrahamic religions.

I've also noticed that many atheists I talk to simply have no opinion on paganism, that could be a reason as well for the "alliance". It's a fast growing religion but it's not particularly organised and Pagans tend to work within smaller communities and as far as I've seen tend to not be very public about their religious beliefs.

 

[gnomon]

In my experience and reading, Pagans and atheists rarely fight. In my opinion, atheist most usually have most of their disagreements with large organised religions, most notably Abrahamic religions.

I've also noticed that many atheists I talk to simply have no opinion on paganism, that could be a reason as well for the "alliance". It's a fast growing religion but it's not particularly organised and Pagans tend to work within smaller communities and as far as I've seen tend to not be very public about their religious beliefs.

I would recommend the Skeptic/Atheist arguments with Hindu religions. Especially in the context of the latest criminal trial of a woman raped and killed upon a bus in India and a prominent politician in India whose position on such matters is considered conducive of such situations.

Then there is the entire situation of the Dalits and the Fakirs in India. There, just one among many, is the situation of atheists among Eastern religious believers.

Once again, at the expense of raising the ire of RF pagans, I would state that the relation between atheists and modern pagans is that many modern pagans are reacting against dominant organized religions and less about actual pre-Abrahamic or existing non-Abrahamic religious traditions.

 

[Quintessence]

I am speaking from personal experience. Namely that personal experience that in the real world beyond forums every single pagan I have associated with, from friends and lovers, exhibited the same personality which is the dress in black, polish nails black, blame Christianity for everything, etc.

Oh my gods! You've actually met one of those allegedly Neopagan fluffy-emo-angsty-fad-goths?! The community likes to gripe about them, but I've never see any substantial proof of their existence and had them figured for a mythical creature. Do you have pictures?

I don't pretend to know the history of religion in any depth. I also don't pretend to be a reconstructionist where this knowledge is most relevant, so getting a master's in history isn't exactly a priority for me. Instead I got a masters in a natural science, which is very relevant to my path since I basically worship things like that big awesome ball of hydrogen gas in the sky that we depend upon for our existence. My focus on science oddly gives me more in common with American-brand atheists than many other Neopagans, as American atheists are often very into science. More so than the typical Neopagan I've met.

 

[Madhuri]

I would recommend the Skeptic/Atheist arguments with Hindu religions. Especially in the context of the latest criminal trial of a woman raped and killed upon a bus in India and a prominent politician in India whose position on such matters is considered conducive of such situations.

Then there is the entire situation of the Dalits and the Fakirs in India. There, just one among many, is the situation of atheists among Eastern religious believers.

I may be missing something but what does this have to do with the topic?

 

[gnomon]

Oh my gods! You've actually met one of those allegedly Neopagan fluffy-emo-angsty-fad-goths?! The community likes to gripe about them, but I've never see any substantial proof of their existence and had them figured for a mythical creature. Do you have pictures?

I don't pretend to know the history of religion in any depth. I also don't pretend to be a reconstructionist where this knowledge is most relevant, so getting a master's in history isn't exactly a priority for me. Instead I got a masters in a natural science, which is very relevant to my path since I basically worship things like that big awesome ball of hydrogen gas in the sky that we depend upon for our existence. My focus on science oddly gives me more in common with American-brand atheists than many other Neopagans, as American atheists are often very into science. More so than the typical Neopagan I've met.

I commend your education.

I must admit that my personal view on my own culture's education standards, whether it be religious, cultural or political is rather dim. But yes, growing up in my region the dominant sort of pagan/neo-pagan practitioners were more of the "fluffy bunny" or "Silver Ravenwolf" type intermixed with the supposed gothic "Christianity is to blame for everything" all dress in black type.

It was forums such as these that taught me that modern pagans were not given over to simple stereotypes but, as working in a bookstore for the past 18 years, talking to people interested in such subjects I'm sad to say such simple stereotypes predominate my experience.

 

[gnomon]

I may be missing something but what does this have to do with the topic?

It's just an aside but there has been a strong skeptic community in India exposing fakirs and the hold traditional religious concepts, often associated with pagan concepts for merely not being Abrahamic (which is wrong but let's face it...), have in influencing the populace at large.

The strongest condemnation I have found against the case I specifically mentioned has come from the Skeptic community rather than religious organizations. There is as well the actions of Skeptics exposing fakirs in India, the falsity of Eastern health practices in so called Eastern Religious medicine, etc.

Furthering this discussion would probably require another topic.

 

[Pastadamus]

Then there is the entire situation of the Dalits and the Fakirs in India. There, just one among many, is the situation of atheists among Eastern religious believers.

To be fair, the situation of the Dalits is probably not something that comes from Hinduism. There are poor people in every country and India is no exception, being a developing country. Do some Hindus misuse the Hindu scriptures in order to justify keeping the Dalits poor and oppressed? Honestly it's hard to say and it's possible but you can't put all the blame on the Hindu religion.

There are much bigger problems in say Saudi Arabia where the 1% has more wealth than the 99% and are building huge luxury hotels, while people around the world are starving.

 

[dust1n]

Some Pagans I find myself disagreeing with as they can be right-wing sometimes.

 

[Nayana]

Some Pagans I find myself disagreeing with as they can be right-wing sometimes.

I feel the pain. I know some Pagans who are so right wing they might as well be a part of a southern Baptist evangelical church.

 

[dust1n]

I feel the pain. I know some Pagans who are so right wing they might as well be a part of a southern Baptist evangelical church.

Indeed. Same LHP.


But then, some pagans/lhp I get along with perfectly. Some fall into my favorite posters. I don't knows.

Generally if people can hold up a good conversation or make valid points, we tend to get along.

 

[Nayana]

Indeed. Same LHP.


But then, some pagans/lhp I get along with perfectly. Some fall into my favorite posters. I don't knows.

Generally if people can hold up a good conversation or make valid points, we tend to get along.

I agree. I remember when I used to be on another pagan/wiccan forum there always was fights between the severe right wing pagans/wiccans and the pagans/wiccans who were so open their brains fell out and still had a chip on their shoulder about the, uh, "burning times" . Needless to say the debates were an incoherent mess haha.