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Pagan/Atheist Alliance?

Pastadamus

Member
Didn't know where else to post this, but for what it's worth I thought this was a great article.

Canadian Atheist: Is There an Unspoken Pagan/Atheist Alliance?

Is it just me or have you noticed that Pagans and Atheists seem (for the most part) to get along and even agree with one another most of the time?

If you visit atheist or religious forums, the trend seems to be pretty clear. I don't think I've ever had an argument with a pagan or met one online or in person that I disliked. I really started thinking about it after reading a comment about how some Christians feel their religion is under attack. I started wondering - probably for the millionth time - whether that's true. I then realized that you rarely see atheists arguing with Pagans, Hindu's, Buddhists etc. You will frequently see them arguing with Muslims or Christians.

As an avowed atheist, I notice that I generally don't have any problems with most Pagans due to the fact that Paganism is more or less tolerant and accepting of all; there are gay pagans, transgender pagans, agnostic pagans, pantheistc pagans, deistic pagans, etc who all bring a different persepctive to the table.

I've had similarly positive experiences with most Buddhists.
 

Pastadamus

Member
Religion is religion. They are all the same to me.

On the surface yes, but if we judge people by actions rather than labels, then the Pagans have got a lot on other groups.

When was the last time we saw a pagan blowing up an abortion clinic or carrying a "God hates F-gs" sign?

When was the last time we saw a Buddhist behead someone for drawing a picture of the Buddha?

When was the last time a "fairly devout" Bahá'í shot up an army base?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
To focus on the extremists of any group will mislead.
I find that alliances depend upon the particular issue at hand, & may be found anywhere.
You should see some atheists pounce upon me regarding gun control & economics!
One might think they believe me to be Satan himself.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Eh, I've met atheists I've disliked. However, this has mostly been because of their attitude problem, not their atheism itself. Honestly, I find the terms "theist" and "atheist" almost entirely worthless because all they do is beg another question: how are you defining the gods? Blind to any cultural biases, all "gods" represent are aspects of reality someone values or finds worthy of honoring and respecting in their lives. It could be an ideal like justice or their family and ancestors. Everybody has aspects they value and honor. As far as I'm concerned, that makes everybody a "theist," but those labels, again, are pretty useless. Tell me the sorts of things you value, cherish, or aspire to, and that tells me the "gods" you honor, regardless of whether or not you call it that. But I have unconventional perspectives on these things, it seems. :shrug:
 

Pastadamus

Member
Eh, I've met atheists I've disliked. However, this has mostly been because of their attitude problem, not their atheism itself.

Unfortunately being Atheist doesn't mean that you can't be a jerk. Those people probably would have been jerks no matter what. I.e. if they were Christian, Catholic, Muslim, Confucian or whatnot, they you would still not have gotten along with them since the problem was probably with them. It's important not to blame the whole for the problems of the few.
 

Penumbra

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Didn't know where else to post this, but for what it's worth I thought this was a great article.

Canadian Atheist: Is There an Unspoken Pagan/Atheist Alliance?

As an avowed atheist, I notice that I generally don't have any problems with most Pagans due to the fact that Paganism is more or less tolerant and accepting of all; there are gay pagans, transgender pagans, agnostic pagans, pantheistc pagans, deistic pagans, etc who all bring a different persepctive to the table.

I've had similarly positive experiences with most Buddhists.
I would say there kind of is. There is for me, but it's more broad than that.

In general I disagree with worldviews that don't seem well-evidenced, where people have many highly specific beliefs without correspondingly specific evidence.

So in that sense, whether one is Christian, Islam, Hindu, Pagan, or something else, I'm generally going to disagree with the approach.

But there's also a moral and character development aspect to religion as well. For example, there could be two religions A and B, and while I'd potentially view them as equally unevidenced, religion A and those that adhere to it might be generally inclusive of all people, diverse, loving, chill, etc. while religion B and those that adhere to it might be generally thinking their religion is the only correct one in the world, might preach about torture or wrath, might go after groups and wish to treat them as inferior without any real-world evidence, etc. In that example, while I'd have some disagreements with people of religion A, I don't necessarily view them as harmful. They could be quite helpful.

I went to a pagan ceremony at college once and the people were great.

Generally, the kinds of religious topics that bother me the most are when:
a) they try to combine religion and government
b) they blend it with dislike towards a group (like how homosexuality is illegal in most Muslim countries, how most gay marriage opponents in North America or Europe are Christian, etc)
c) they completely ignore science, and worse, wish to reduce the influence of science on society
d) they teach things that hurt people or are irrationally unethical

I don't exactly run into too many pagans doing that. I could say the same for very socially liberal Protestant Christians as well. Or deists. Or some Hindus or other worldviews.

And as for Buddhism, it has some secular applications. The philosophical aspects of it can be useful in a secular context, and the effects of various kinds of meditation have measurable impacts (and usually beneficial ones) on the brain.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Unfortunately being Atheist doesn't mean that you can't be a jerk. Those people probably would have been jerks no matter what. I.e. if they were Christian, Catholic, Muslim, Confucian or whatnot, they you would still not have gotten along with them since the problem was probably with them. It's important not to blame the whole for the problems of the few.

Agreed. Unfortunately, what often seems to happen in my culture is that entire groups get stereotyped for the actions of their more extreme minorities. Although I see this done more often to the disservice of Christianity, I also see it fairly regularly with atheism. No matter how much one attempts to ignore the nonsense of such stereotypes, it influences you anyway. We subconsciously listen to the voices that scream at us the loudest. This is why I really wish fundamentalists of all stripes would ****, for the tempt culture at large with their intolerance and bigotry.

Avoiding popular media seems to do a pretty good job of distancing myself from that stuff. :D
 

Erebus

Well-Known Member
I don't know if it could be considered an alliance as such, but I have noticed Atheists and Pagans (both on RF and in my day to day life) tend not to have much of a problem with each other. This doesn't mean there's never going to be heated debate or even arguments between the two, but in my experience it rarely gets too vicious.
I think it's because many Pagans leave others to their own views as far as religion is concerned and many atheists only have any real issues with religions they see as harmful.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
I don't do viscous arguments, period, and this tendency has little to nothing to do with my religion, honestly. I just think it's foolish to have those kinds of arguments. They strike me as childish competitions that accomplish nothing but egotistical posturing, personal hubris, and delusions of self-righteousness. Congrats man, you have a big wang. Big whoop de effing do. Whatever makes you feel good about yourself; I'm more than happy to let others "win" the "contest" by refusing to play the game in the first place. :shrug:
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I still don't get what sort of commonalities these two groups are supposed to inherently have. I'm not buying it.
We're both outside of the big name religions, & we aren't politically organized.
It's like how you & I have so much in common because we both don't collect stamps.
 
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fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
We're both outside of the big name religions, & we aren't politically organized.
It's like how you & I have so much in common because we both don't collect stamps.

I would propose an alliance between the non-stamp collectors and the non-coin collectors. We could all get together and do nothing.
 
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