Overcoming Death

[YoursTrue]

What is the scripture that says in your flesh you shall see God?

I am not following you. Benefit from what kingdom?

Yes, well, it's an interesting question into which I did some research about seeing God in the flesh. I am thinking of the King James Version Job 19:26, and I realize it has different renderings, so it requires some study since it can have different connotations, so I appreciate the question. But then there is Job 42:5, where Job speaks of seeing God. "I had heard of thee by the hearing of the ear; But now mine eye seeth thee:" So yes, it needs to be analyzed well with the proper viewpoint.
Now the kingdom I am speaking of is that for which Jesus taught his disciples to pray: "Our Father in heaven, hallowed (or sanctified) be thy name; let your KINGDOM COME." There is much to learn about this kingdom, but he also prayed that God's will be done on the earth as in heaven. We know flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom. But a kingdom, or king, has subjects. How do you feel about that?

 

[Aupmanyav]

I cannot understand any of these religious people discussing quotes from their various books and various personages. When I ask for evidence, they all look left and right. Evidence, gentlemen, evidence. Come out with evidence if you have any.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Should humanity overcome death?

Death has dominated the human psyche, religion, philosophy, and culture since before the dawn of recorded history.

But should Humanity overcome death?

Or is it best to accept things as they are, and learn to live with the fact that death comes for all?

Well I really that maybe the thing is, death is often preceded by pain, and it is the pain that people dislike, and maybe have a harder time accepting. And though the two things relate to each other, they seem like separate things. I might fear death however, for a separate reason. It's a door that everyone goes through, and most people consider it to be a mystery as to what's on the other side. That can certainly evoke fear, but is somewhat difficult to even start imagining what might constitute such a fear, in the lucid sense, since not much is imaginable

But I think I fear pain more in a crucial sense, because it is a known-known. It can also lead to death. But I think for a moment about why I am less afraid hiking, for example, around an area that had a mountain lion in it, than one with a grizzly bear. And I think that this is because I have an idea, perhaps an errant one, that the mountain lion is more likely to go to the jugular, whereas I often seem to hear that bear species are prone to things like disemboweling of prey

So I think that at some point, technology may improve to where all the organs and nerves are replaced, except the brain. This is important because the brain doesn't have any nerves itself, I guess. So now, if the rest of body is mechanical, pain needn't be felt at their failure. And as well, they can merely be replaced if they fail, and if the brain remains supported until they can be replaced.

And at that point, the human organism, or what is left of it, need only fear what happens at death. And so then, perhaps it will refocus its fears to actually fear death more lucidly, because it needn't worry anymore about pain. (I know this last part is kind of sci-fi, but I had to go there)

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes, well, it's an interesting question into which I did some research about seeing God in the flesh. I am thinking of the King James Version Job 19:26, and I realize it has different renderings, so it requires some study since it can have different connotations, so I appreciate the question. But then there is Job 42:5, where Job speaks of seeing God. "I had heard of thee by the hearing of the ear; But now mine eye seeth thee:" So yes, it needs to be analyzed well with the proper viewpoint.

The Bible clearly says that no one has ever seen God at any time:

John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

1 John 4:12 No one has seen God at any time; if we love one another, God abides in us, and His love is perfected in us.

John 5:37 And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form.

1 Timothy 6:16 who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.

Source: 16 Bible verses about Not Seeing God

This post that @Bree posted back in February did a good job of showing how the Bible supports that no one has ever seen God. Humans have seen angels but they have never seen God.

In ancient times, God sent angels as his representatives to appear to humans and to speak in his name. (Psalm 103:20) For example, God once spoke to Moses from a burning bush, and the Bible says that “Moses hid his face, because he was afraid to look at the true God.” (Exodus 3:4, 6) Moses did not literally see God, though, for the context shows that he actually saw “Jehovah’s angel.”—Exodus 3:2.

Has Anyone Ever Seen God?

Now the kingdom I am speaking of is that for which Jesus taught his disciples to pray: "Our Father in heaven, hallowed (or sanctified) be thy name; let your KINGDOM COME." There is much to learn about this kingdom, but he also prayed that God's will be done on the earth as in heaven. We know flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom. But a kingdom, or king, has subjects. How do you feel about that?

I believe that Jesus was telling His disciples to pray for the kingdom of God to come to earth, and I believe it will. As a Baha'i, I do not believe that the kingdom of God is a kingdom with a king and subjects. I believe that the kingdom of God is the new world order that will be built on earth: Toward a New World Order?

I believe that humans will build this new world order, and eventually it will replace the old world order, which is crumbling all around us.

“This is the Day in which God’s most excellent favors have been poured out upon men, the Day in which His most mighty grace hath been infused into all created things. It is incumbent upon all the peoples of the world to reconcile their differences, and, with perfect unity and peace, abide beneath the shadow of the Tree of His care and loving-kindness. It behoveth them to cleave to whatsoever will, in this Day, be conducive to the exaltation of their stations, and to the promotion of their best interests. Happy are those whom the all-glorious Pen was moved to remember, and blessed are those men whose names, by virtue of Our inscrutable decree, We have preferred to conceal.

Beseech ye the one true God to grant that all men may be graciously assisted to fulfil that which is acceptable in Our sight. Soon will the present-day order be rolled up, and a new one spread out in its stead. Verily, thy Lord speaketh the truth, and is the Knower of things unseen.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 6- 7

 

[rational experiences]

In human consciousness living it states to self....we the living do not own death.

Only death owns death. Exact. Legal terminology.

It's exact human consciousness advised.

Bio life cellular existing is in it within water mass and it is by oxygenation processes.

We survive only is our law.

As waters mass is a mass. Humans biology isn't a mass. It's a body type.

When a body exists inside of another body that is just mass. .... The pressure of the natural mass eventually causes removal. Of what's inside of it.

You cannot control pressure change. If you tried we'd all die. Exact humans answer as we are human first said humans legal position.

Legal was implemented to contradict science theism of false human thinkers. Termed lying as you weren't ever personally speaking on behalf of any God.

Was that decision. Decided about Sion ..fusion..fission.

 

[YoursTrue]

The Bible clearly says that no one has ever seen God at any time:

John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

1 John 4:12 No one has seen God at any time; if we love one another, God abides in us, and His love is perfected in us.

John 5:37 And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form.

1 Timothy 6:16 who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.

Source: 16 Bible verses about Not Seeing God

This post that @Bree posted back in February did a good job of showing how the Bible supports that no one has ever seen God. Humans have seen angels but they have never seen God.

In ancient times, God sent angels as his representatives to appear to humans and to speak in his name. (Psalm 103:20) For example, God once spoke to Moses from a burning bush, and the Bible says that “Moses hid his face, because he was afraid to look at the true God.” (Exodus 3:4, 6) Moses did not literally see God, though, for the context shows that he actually saw “Jehovah’s angel.”—Exodus 3:2.

Has Anyone Ever Seen God?

I believe that Jesus was telling His disciples to pray for the kingdom of God to come to earth, and I believe it will. As a Baha'i, I do not believe that the kingdom of God is a kingdom with a king and subjects. I believe that the kingdom of God is the new world order that will be built on earth: Toward a New World Order?

I believe that humans will build this new world order, and eventually it will replace the old world order, which is crumbling all around us.

“This is the Day in which God’s most excellent favors have been poured out upon men, the Day in which His most mighty grace hath been infused into all created things. It is incumbent upon all the peoples of the world to reconcile their differences, and, with perfect unity and peace, abide beneath the shadow of the Tree of His care and loving-kindness. It behoveth them to cleave to whatsoever will, in this Day, be conducive to the exaltation of their stations, and to the promotion of their best interests. Happy are those whom the all-glorious Pen was moved to remember, and blessed are those men whose names, by virtue of Our inscrutable decree, We have preferred to conceal.

Beseech ye the one true God to grant that all men may be graciously assisted to fulfil that which is acceptable in Our sight. Soon will the present-day order be rolled up, and a new one spread out in its stead. Verily, thy Lord speaketh the truth, and is the Knower of things unseen.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 6- 7

No one on earth has seen God literally in the flesh. God is spirit. But with eyes of faith God can be seen. As it is written in the Bible, no man has ever seen God . When we die, we are not alive. We can be in God's memory and in that sense Moses and Abraham are living to Him and they will be resurrected Anyway, have a nice day.

 

[YoursTrue]

I cannot understand any of these religious people discussing quotes from their various books and various personages. When I ask for evidence, they all look left and right. Evidence, gentlemen, evidence. Come out with evidence if you have any.

Only God can give you faith. I agree that there are many different paths out there but not all lead to God. I also know it's a conundrum for some because of firmly entrenched conflicting ideas.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Only God can give you faith. I agree that there are many different paths out there but not all lead to God. I also know it's a conundrum for some because of firmly entrenched conflicting ideas.

Yeah, faith only and no evidence. Let us see how long this 'no evidence' thing lasts. If you cannot give any evidence, then your own faith is no better than any other, don't brag about it. I can give evidence for what I believe.

 

[YoursTrue]

Yeah, faith only and no evidence. Let us see how long this 'no evidence' thing lasts. If you cannot give any evidence, then your own faith is no better than any other, don't brag about it. I can give evidence for what I believe.

I used to feel the same way as you. Someone (a minister) told me that only God can give you this faith, and I was frustrated at that point because I didn't believe in God. At that point. So I politely said ok. But then I prayed finally after many years and asked God if He's there to give me this gift of faith. And He did. It does get a little detailed after that, but that's basically how it happened. The evidence to me was clear. I don't expect you to believe me, but now I look at the world and the Bible and people and religion differently.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I used to feel the same way as you. Someone (a minister) told me that only God can give you this faith, and I was frustrated at that point because I didn't believe in God. At that point. So I politely said ok. But then I prayed finally after many years and asked God if He's there to give me this gift of faith. And He did. It does get a little detailed after that, but that's basically how it happened. The evidence to me was clear. I don't expect you to believe me, but now I look at the world and the Bible and people and religion differently.

These kind of stories are nothing new. No details required, you have told your story.
Such stories impress the uneducated and dimwits and not people like me.
"First, get your nose cut, then yo will see Emperor's New Clothes".

 

[PearlSeeker]

Should humanity overcome death?

Death has dominated the human psyche, religion, philosophy, and culture since before the dawn of recorded history.

But should Humanity overcome death?

Or is it best to accept things as they are, and learn to live with the fact that death comes for all?

Not until we are able to inhabit other planets. Right now no more death would also mean no more birth.

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

Should humanity overcome death?

Death has dominated the human psyche, religion, philosophy, and culture since before the dawn of recorded history.

But should Humanity overcome death?

Or is it best to accept things as they are, and learn to live with the fact that death comes for all?

I wonder, if everyone/anyone in this thread is privy to the "2045 Initiative" their website is 2045.com. I will link their introductory YouTube video posted on their website. Also on their website is the calendar defining their milestone goals.

I would have to inquire, after they successfully 'transfer a human consciousness onto a hard drive'; "Is that anything more than a 'copy/pasted' shell of the human it is supposed to be representing? Is there any way we can test or parse out evidence to prove it isn't just an android exhibiting advanced machine learning in order to ace the Turing Test?

I have my doubts. If I were to be the individual having their consciousness transferred, I don't believe that will be me 'copy/pasted' onto a hard drive.

 

[Fool]

Should humanity overcome death?

Death has dominated the human psyche, religion, philosophy, and culture since before the dawn of recorded history.

But should Humanity overcome death?

Or is it best to accept things as they are, and learn to live with the fact that death comes for all?

life is eternal change. from what i came unto what i will always be. the end is just another beginning. round and round we go


(18) The disciples said to Jesus, "Tell us how our end will be."
Jesus said, "Have you discovered, then, the beginning, that you look for the end? For where the beginning is, there will the end be. Blessed is he who will take his place in the beginning; he will know the end and will not experience death."

 

[InChrist]

We could try it and then stop if it is not working out. I understand some of the potential problems, but they might be surmountable.

One serious threat is stagnation. Up until now we have always been changing. If we stop dying then we could stagnate in many ways. The upside of that is we could remain one thing, one species and never diverge (by evolution) into many species.

Death is a part of this temporal world, but I think most people long for or sense there is more because God, the Creator has put eternity in our hearts... Ecclesiastes 3:11

 

[Brickjectivity]

Death is a part of this temporal world, but I think most people long for or sense there is more because God, the Creator has put eternity in our hearts... Ecclesiastes 3:11

Ecclesiastes bemoans that eternity has been put into our hearts but that it is denied us. Most people who believe in the afterlife usually excuse Ecclesiastes as not authoritative scripture. Maybe you should do that.

 

[InChrist]

Ecclesiastes bemoans that eternity has been put into our hearts but that it is denied us. Most people who believe in the afterlife usually excuse Ecclesiastes as not authoritative scripture. Maybe you should do that.

I don’t think so. I believe God has put a sense of eternity in the human heart because He created us in His image as eternal beings and desires the we find eternal life with Him through Christ the Savior.

What does it mean that we have eternity in our hearts (Ecclesiastes 3:11)? | GotQuestions.org

 

[Brickjectivity]

I don’t think so. I believe God has put a sense of eternity in the human heart because He created us in His image as eternal beings and desires the we find eternal life with Him through Christ the Savior.

What does it mean that we have eternity in our hearts (Ecclesiastes 3:11)? | GotQuestions.org

All that is required is context. Same chapter. It opposes everything you're saying, and gotquestions should return to the trash bin from which it came. But that does not mean that there is no afterlife. It means that the author of Ecclesiastes does not think there is one.

[Ecc 3:10-12 NIV] 10 I have seen the burden God has laid on the human race. 11 He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the human heart; yet no one can fathom what God has done from beginning to end. 12 I know that there is nothing better for people than to be happy and to do good while they live.

[Ecc 3:15 NIV] 15 Whatever is has already been, and what will be has been before; and God will call the past to account.

[Ecc 3:18-19 NIV] 18 I also said to myself, "As for humans, God tests them so that they may see that they are like the animals. 19 Surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; humans have no advantage over animals. Everything is meaningless.​

 

[InChrist]

All that is required is context. Same chapter. It opposes everything you're saying, and gotquestions should return to the trash bin from which it came. But that does not mean that there is no afterlife. It means that the author of Ecclesiastes does not think there is one.

[Ecc 3:10-12 NIV] 10 I have seen the burden God has laid on the human race. 11 He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the human heart; yet no one can fathom what God has done from beginning to end. 12 I know that there is nothing better for people than to be happy and to do good while they live.

[Ecc 3:15 NIV] 15 Whatever is has already been, and what will be has been before; and God will call the past to account.

[Ecc 3:18-19 NIV] 18 I also said to myself, "As for humans, God tests them so that they may see that they are like the animals. 19 Surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; humans have no advantage over animals. Everything is meaningless.​

I think context includes the whole book, as well as the entirety of the scriptures and rightly dividing the teachings of the Bible when it is speaking of physical life and/ or spiritual eternal life.


Then the dust will return to the earth as it was,
And the spirit will return to God who gave it. Ecclesiastes 12:7


Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter:

Fear God and keep His commandments,
For this is man’s all.
14 For God will bring every work into judgment,
Including every secret thing,
Whether good or evil.
Ecclesiastes 12:13-14

 

[Brickjectivity]

I think context includes the whole book, as well as the entirety of the scriptures and rightly dividing the teachings of the Bible when it is speaking of physical life and/ or spiritual eternal life.


Then the dust will return to the earth as it was,
And the spirit will return to God who gave it. Ecclesiastes 12:7


Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter:

Fear God and keep His commandments,
For this is man’s all.
14 For God will bring every work into judgment,
Including every secret thing,
Whether good or evil.
Ecclesiastes 12:13-14

I haven't decided whether to press this issue or not, and I think there is no way to continue discussing it pleasantly. We have arrived at the place of Cain and Abel. I don't think that Cain intends to kill his brother, but he is overcome with rage and his strength is multiplied beyond what he is used to. His brother dies as a result, and he is asked "Where is your brother?" To this he replies with the question "Am I my brother's keeper?" This is the problem with quarrels. What if your argument becomes too strong for me and I am destroyed instead of helped?

 

[InChrist]

I haven't decided whether to press this issue or not, and I think there is no way to continue discussing it pleasantly. We have arrived at the place of Cain and Abel. I don't think that Cain intends to kill his brother, but he is overcome with rage and his strength is multiplied beyond what he is used to. His brother dies as a result, and he is asked "Where is your brother?" To this he replies with the question "Am I my brother's keeper?" This is the problem with quarrels. What if your argument becomes too strong for me and I am destroyed instead of helped?

We don’t have to continue discussing the issue, if you prefer. I don’t even consider this a quarrel, just a discussion, exchange of perspectives, and sure some disagreement. Yet, I have absolutely no desire to destroy you or be unpleasant. I don’t know why you would think so. I desire to speak what I believe to be truth with love because I know you are loved by God. I am aware that everyone is at a different place spiritually and believers in Jesus Christ who are sincere in seeking truth will find it, not by fighting, but because of His faithfulness to mature our understanding. If you are wrong or I am wrong in understanding various biblical passages, God will correct us in His way and timing. That’s my perspective. I think we learn even during disagreements.
Have a good evening.