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Over half of Americans are sick and tired of both Republicans and Democrats..

Discussion in 'North American Politics' started by Nowhere Man, May 31, 2020.

  1. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    Even I find myself wishing there was a new third political party completely unrelated to the two-party dictatorship we have today. And this article gave out a good question. Why don't we have a third party?

    if you really want to know how evil both the Republicans and Democrats are just read this article.....

    https://joinsam.org/blog/61-americans-want-see-new-political-party-where-it

    How they got away in the first place with intentionally slamming the political door and throwing away the key, is completely beyond me in a supposedly free republic.

    The real frustrating thing right now?

    Is that there is absolutely no third-party in sight to finally overthrow this horrific two-party dictatorship that has ground this country into the ground.

    When was the last time a major party change occurred? The Whigs?
     
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  2. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    I came across this grassroots party and it looks very intriguing.

    https://joinsam.org/

    If you're now sick of the two party dictatorship.....

    What's your opinion about them?
     
  3. Mindmaster

    Mindmaster Well-Known Member
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    I'd prefer it if political parties were banned from politics. I'd like my politicians to serve their people and not some borg collective. It probably used to be the case that spending more money would win you the election, but with the Internet you certainly can run a shoe-string campaign without anyone else's assistance. Time to upgrade our political process.

    But, anyway, I've felt the same way -- the two political parties aren't Dems and Reps they're the rich and the poor. You and me ain't in the club, lol.
     
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  4. crossfire

    crossfire Antinomian feminist heretic freak ☿
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    Oh, I agree, the republicrats suck. Why people keep voting for them is beyond me.
     
  5. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    Just for comparison, we (Australia) have 2 primary parties.
    However, it takes 500 members...or 1 sitting Member of Parliament...plus a written constitution and a $500 fee to register a political party.

    The preferential voting system here also gives those parties more clout than they would have in a first part the post system.

    Not suggesting our system is without flaws at all, just that it seems relatively easier and cheaper to organise a new party.
     
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  6. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    The solution is very simple. Vote out of office every incumbent candidate in every election regardless of party affiliation unless and until we get someone in office that ACTS (not just talks about it) to stop the legalized bribery of our legislative branch of government. Until we wipe the slate clean, and elect people who will take action to end the wholesale bribery and corruption, none of our "elected representatives" are ever going to represent us. They will continue to represent the wealthy elites that are paying for their campaigns, their many political perks, their family member's huge salaries for do-nothing jobs, and their own huge salaries when they "retire" from politics.

    Never vote for an incumbent again (unless as stated above). Vote for a third party candidate if you must (it doesn't matter which one), write in a candidate if you must (it doesn't matter which one), or simply don't vote for that specific office (but vote for all the others.) The message must be sent loud and clear: that we will vote, but we will NOT vote for any incumbent, ever again, unless they are willing to act (not just talk) to end the legalized bribery and the corruption that results. Until we stop this corruption, there is no hope of our ever gaining any positive change. And we are running out of time, because the corrupt politicians that are in power, now, are quickly rigging our electoral system so that our votes will no longer even matter.
     
    #6 PureX, May 31, 2020
    Last edited: May 31, 2020
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  7. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    Theyve been saying that for so long that Ill give my prediction now that I a confident will stand. O er half of Americans will continue to vote Dem and Rep for years to come.
     
  8. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise

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    Hehe personally I vote for the Sex Party who I think initially started as a Sex Worker rights group. They’re a bit more harsh towards religious clout than I am, but ehh
    I think they’ve rebranded now, which takes the fun out of it slightly. But to hell with the two majors. Independent all the way.
    Incidentally my uncle used to work for the Greens after retiring from teaching. Seems to be a common thing around here. Weird
     
  9. icehorse

    icehorse Well-Known Member
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    Agreed with the OP. The vast majority of them are seriously corrupt. Toss 'em all out.

    So for our fellow RFers who live where there are multiple parties and coalition governments - any thoughts? You like your system better?
     
  10. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    I like it better, but it has it's flaws. I've lived in multiple countries where there were multiple parties and coalition governments, and I've seen both stable and less stable examples first hand. This is kinda general views, but I can give specific examples, etc, if it's of any interest...

    1) Having multiple parties does make it more likely that one party will 'in theory' represent your opinions and views better. I say in theory, because coalition governments lead to compromised positions anyway.
    2) Having multiple parties forming coalitions makes it more likely that at some point in a governments lifespan there is a fracture, and the coalition falls apart, leading to a minority government. That doesn't happen much in a place like Australia, but was a constant fact of life in Papua New Guinea.
    3) With our system in Australia, multiple small parties impacts heavily on the Senate, since you're voting on a national basis. And less impact in some House of Representatives seats, since those various smaller parties simply aren't contesting in the majority of seats.
    4) We use preferential voting, so it means small parties, even those with no chance of winning a seat, can have some influence by directing their preferences to one of the major parties or the other.

    Simple example on that last point in case it's unclear.
    Let's imagine there are three parties contesting my local seat (say Labour, Liberal and Green).
    Liberal get 40% of the vote
    Labour gets 35% of the vote
    Greens get 20% of the vote
    5% of the vote are blank or invalid or whatever.

    If the Greens have directed their voters to put Green, then Labour, then Liberal, you could expect a majority of Green preferences to end up with Labour.

    So Labour would win, despite having a lower primary vote, because all the votes that went to the Greens would end up counting for Labour.
    (I mean...obviously not all, I'm over-simplifying, but that's the basic impact)

    Whether you see that as good or bad is the million dollar question, but in general terms I like our system (including the fact that voting is compulsory here).
     
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  11. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    They're now the Reason Party. They merged with another minor party who were focused on niche issues. Motorists, or Cyclists, or something?
    Couple of reasons, I think, but they were struggling to keep 500 registered members for a while (which you need to be a registered party), so they thought the merge and rebrand would help with that.

    Influence of religion on politics is definitely a key part of their platform.
     
  12. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise

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    Yeah. Not surprising given their origins.
    I kind of jive with them the most. Especially after Labour proved how weak it was during the SSM debacle. We need new blood
     
  13. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    How could a single issue party be remotely viable?
     
  14. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    The recent extended mess in Israel has even more soured me on parliamentary systems.

    And to me it's a false equivalent to calling the two parties equally corrupt. It's clear as crystal to me that the right is much more corrupt. The left is not saintly by any means, but the right has embraced darkness and is reveling in it.

    The problem is not the parties but the American people. When we change the political system will change but not before. I hope and pray that change is manifest soon but it's not there today.
     
  15. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise

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    I don’t think they are a single issue party, though. They started as a group of campaigners. That’s how they got their original name.
    But once they became a political party they broadened their horizons, so to speak. They are very outspoken about religious influence in politics and are particularly critical of the Roman Catholic Church’s response to their recent sex abuse scandal. Wanting to remove tax free statuses of Churches and even Church run charities (that I’m a bit iffy on, to be sure.). They regularly campaign for secular humanistic values, they strongly supported SSM as far as I’m aware and I’m fairly certain they’re very big into workers rights in general. They also want drug reform, preferring a rehabilitation approach over criminality and they are staunch supports of euthanasia (when done with explicit consent, of course.) They also want to decriminalise sex work and remove censorship restrictions. They’re also big on improving public transport, more free wifi in public areas, wish to reduce the influence of “pokies” (harmful gambling practices designed to get people addicted) and strongly support vaccination for all, for herd immunity.
    They describe themselves as a “civil libertarian alternative.”
    Reason Party (Australia) - Wikipedia

    I mean I don’t always agree with their proposals, but I must admit, I do quite like how pragmatic they seem. At least on certain issues.

    As for the Greens, they too are not a one issue party.
    They believe in social justice, non violence and environmentalism. They dislike tax cuts which favour the top brackets and are for gun control and are concerned with animal welfare. I think they’re for legalisation of drugs, but don’t quote me on that. Wouldn’t surprise me, given their position on other issues. Wanting to extend Medicare to dental and mental health, strongly support efforts to address climate change, want public services to be optimised for the public needs and strongly support gay rights, euthanasia and are generally very left wing, in terms of American politics
    They can be a bit more “out there” sometimes with their environmentalism, since they basically started as environmental group.
    But they’re usually in alliance with Labour.
    Australian Greens - Wikipedia
     
    #15 SomeRandom, May 31, 2020
    Last edited: May 31, 2020
  16. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    I have posted threads.....should we abolish the two party system

    I still think we should
     
  17. icehorse

    icehorse Well-Known Member
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    I used to think the Dems were better intended, just massively ineffective. But slowly I've come to think that they're just less transparent about being on the take. Part of what we've been seeing lately from the GOP is that it's radical wing is calling the shots. Because the GOP is always outnumbered, they've survived by towing the party line. But I suspect that behind closed doors a lot of moderate GOPers are mortified by what their party is doing.
     
  18. crossfire

    crossfire Antinomian feminist heretic freak ☿
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    The Left in America is not really Left, it's just a bit closer to center than the Right in America.
     
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  19. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    I'm not so sure, in light of the clear opposition by almost half the country.

    Personally I still think it's still too much left of center mostly due to the Nanny State mentality and the sheer volume of compulsory legislation as opposed to incentive-based legislation.
     
  20. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    I think a lot of this "nanny state" is a straw man, or over simplification, etc. and it isn't like the right has never tried to control people or limit their rights or freedom in same way. I hope you recall the examples I've pointed out in the pass? Society needs safety nets, but of course they shouldn't be abused and used as hammocks. And of course nobody likes higher taxes, but I think we can find ways to stretch the dollar and spend more efficiently on top of gutting waste and redirecting funding (military spending is already more that of the next biggest seven combined, and 5 of those are our allies.) And then there is the money wasted fighting victimless crimes. Costly prisons being overcrowded due to disproportionate and excessive sentences, etc. Cannabis, prostitution, gambling, etc. could be legalized, licensed, regulated, taxed, etc. to create revenue which would help keep taxes low. It would also make such activity safer out of the shadows.
    Also, we need universal healthcare as opposed to a predatory racket that drives people either into debt or into the grave. There is a reason the rest of the developed, civilized world has and prefers such a system.
    I'm also not "ant-gun", but I'm for requiring strict and extensive testing, training, licensing, etc. for any and all firearms.
    Also, while I'm staunchly for equality, rights, etc. I'm not a fan of PC/SJW culture; a lot of it is hypocritical and antithetical to liberty.
    Okay, I'm done rambling.
     
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