Our Father

[Terrywoodenpic]

When you say that the spirit bears witness that we are the children, does that mean that everyone is automatically a child of God? We do not have to do anything like join a church or be baptized? Everyone who ever lived is just automatically a child of God?

Clearly we are of creation and the children of God.
However not all of God's children recognise him.
we do not need to Join a church to do so.
However Jesus set us the example of being baptised,
and Joining a Church is for the worship of God and a mutual support of our faith.

 

[Fool]

My understanding of this is little different, True! Jacob did see face to face with God, only though! Not in how it sounds like.


1 Corinthians 13:12

For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

It speaks of the one whom finally sees past the glass(which many are still inside). And in whom for that one looks to through the glass, will see and know The Father(God). Therefore the one will already have known TheFace(knowledge), Thus! it is the Face that passed one through the glass, and the face is from the Father. When one finds face(knowledge) to wear(Learn) over his own(face to face),
One will lighten!
and walk among the unknown,
and become known to it all.

to know thyself as the Lord doesn't require that much acrobatics.

here is another way of describing what paul was talking implying.

Two birds, beautiful of wings, close companions, cling to one common tree: of the two one eats the sweet fruit of that tree; the other eats not but watches his companion. The self is the bird that sits immersed on the common tree; but because he is not lord he is bewildered and has sorrow. But when he sees that other who is the Lord and the beloved, he knows that all is His greatness and his sorrow passes away from him. When, a seer, he sees the Golden-hued, the maker, the Lord, the Spirit who is the source of Brahman, then he becomes the knower and shakes from his wings sin and virtue; pure of all stains he reaches the supreme identity.

 

[Fool]

Clearly we are of creation and the children of God.
However not all of God's children recognise him.
we do not need to Join a church to do so.
However Jesus set us the example of being baptised,
and Joining a Church is for the worship of God and a mutual support of our faith.

the body is the temple of the holy spirit; so wherever two, or more, gather in my name(exodus 3:14), there I AM.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

quick synopsis

the spirit is entombed in the earth at birth. let the dead bury the dead. earth gives birth to flesh, the spirit gives birth to spirit. unless you are born of water and spirit you can in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven.


Gen 1:2 KJV And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters

heaven and earth, self came to be because god spoke and the spirit moved.................


he who overcomes the first death of the spirit and by rebirth, resurrection death of the body has no power over him.


Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Sorry to be so slow to understand. Born again sounds like something that happens after the first birth. When exactly do you say it occurs? Please explain a little more.

 

[Fool]

Sorry to be so slow to understand. Born again sounds like something that happens after the first birth. When exactly do you say it occurs? Please explain a little more.

born again, change of mind, born of the spirit.


mind = spirit in hebrew ruach

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Clearly we are of creation and the children of God.
However not all of God's children recognise him.
we do not need to Join a church to do so.
However Jesus set us the example of being baptised,
and Joining a Church is for the worship of God and a mutual support of our faith.

God made Adam from the dust of the earth. Does that mean that Adam was God's child? I cam make a statue of of person out of clay but that statue is not my child. Isn't there more to being a child of God than just being a part of something that was created?

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

born again, change of mind, born of the spirit.


mind = spirit in hebrew ruach

So when a person makes a conscious decision to change their mind about God then rhey are born again at that point?

 

[Fool]

So when a person makes a conscious decision to change their mind about God then rhey are born again at that point?

the bible speaks of the spirit as being eternal, the mind. most minds become so conditional they can't see the obvious.

case in point, the gordian knot.


the carnal self is temporal. the mind is eternal

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

God made Adam from the dust of the earth. Does that mean that Adam was God's child? I cam make a statue of of person out of clay but that statue is not my child. Isn't there more to being a child of God than just being a part of something that was created?

I do not take the creation stories literally nor do I believe in an adam.
So the rest of what you say does not follow.

the bible speaks of the spirit as being eternal, the mind. most minds become so conditional they can't see the obvious.

case in point, the gordian knot.


the carnal self is temporal. the mind is eternal

I rather think not. Our bodies and minds die. Only our souls return to God.

 

[Fool]

I do not take the creation stories literally nor do I believe in an adam.
So the rest of what you say does not follow.



I rather think not. Our bodies and minds die. Only our souls return to God.

a soul is a person. a person doesn't return to god.


the spirit returns to god. the problem arises when the actor identifies with the character, the ego, the soul it's playing; when in fact it really isn't that self, that soul. it is unconditional.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

a soul is a person. a person doesn't return to god.


the spirit returns to god. the problem arises when the actor identifies with the character, the ego, the soul it's playing; when in fact it really isn't that self, that soul. it is unconditional.

I and many other Christians use soul interchangeably with spirit.

Our spirits are of God and return to God. They are that part of us through whom the Holy Spirit communicates. They are that part that sustains life. They are the only part that is eternal. Our egos, and identity are ephemeral.

 

[Fool]

I and many other Christians use soul interchangeably with spirit.

Our spirits are of God and return to God. They are that part of us through whom the Holy Spirit communicates. They are that part that sustains life. They are the only part that is eternal. Our egos, and identity are ephemeral.

true but the bible doesn't.


spirit in the nt is not a synonym for soul in the nt.

they are two different words.


soul from strong's g5590 = psyche

spirit from strong's g4151 = pneuma


so the soul is associated directly with the body of a person

the spirit isn't neccessarily associated directly with a person

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

I do not take the creation stories literally nor do I believe in an adam.
So the rest of what you say does not follow.



I rather think not. Our bodies and minds die. Only our souls return to God.

So do you have any thoughts on what Jesus meant when hw said "you must be born again"? Or do you not believe that happened?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

So do you have any thoughts on what Jesus meant when hw said "you must be born again"? Or do you not believe that happened?

To be born again is to start our lives afresh in the knowledge and love of God. Through repentance and the forgiveness of God.
It does not mean we are "saved" once and for ever.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

true but the bible doesn't.


spirit in the nt is not a synonym for soul in the nt.

they are two different words.


soul from strong's g5590 = psyche

spirit from strong's g4151 = pneuma


so the soul is associated directly with the body of a person

the spirit isn't neccessarily associated directly with a person

When I use the words as I did in my post they are synonymous.