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Featured Our Father

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Fool, Mar 2, 2019.

  1. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    Can someone explain how a person becomes one of God's children?
     
  2. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    Romans 8:16
    The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:


    god's spirit created heaven and earth. just as jesus was created of spirit; so are all.

    there is no other.


    god alone is eternal; everything else is temporal, even heaven and earth will pass away but I AM forever.
     
  3. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    Your contention was - Jesus shouldn't be worshiped but only the Father should be, wasn't it?
    Why are we going to the 144,000?
     
  4. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    because 144,000 bear the name too. didn't you try to use a verse to justify idolatry?


    jesus told you, he who wishes to be greatest must be a servant to all. jesus didn't come to be serviced. like all who are sent, he came to serve. the bible says to take up "your" cross and follow. it doesn't say to take up jesus' cross and fall down and idolize.
     
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  5. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    You missed what was there in Philippians, again from the top....

    Philippians 2:9-11 New International Version (NIV)
    Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
    and gave him the name that is above every name,
    that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
    in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
    and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
    to the glory of God the Father.

    That is clearly, a go signal that you have to bend your knee to Jesus.

    The Magi bowed and worshiped the infant Jesus
    Matthew 2:11 New International Version (NIV)
    On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped him. Then they opened their treasures and presented him with gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh.

    Peter and his apostles worshiped Jesus
    petersink.jpg
    Matthew 14:25-33 New International Version (NIV)
    Shortly before dawn Jesus went out to them, walking on the lake. When the disciples saw him walking on the lake, they were terrified. “It’s a ghost,” they said, and cried out in fear.

    But Jesus immediately said to them: “Take courage! It is I. Don’t be afraid.”

    “Lord, if it’s you,” Peter replied, “tell me to come to you on the water.”

    “Come,” he said.

    Then Peter got down out of the boat, walked on the water and came toward Jesus. But when he saw the wind, he was afraid and, beginning to sink, cried out, “Lord, save me!”

    Immediately Jesus reached out his hand and caught him. “You of little faith,” he said, “why did you doubt?”

    And when they climbed into the boat, the wind died down. Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”

    Luke 24:45-53 New International Version (NIV)
    Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. You are witnesses of these things. I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.”

    When he had led them out to the vicinity of Bethany, he lifted up his hands and blessed them. While he was blessing them, he left them and was taken up into heaven. Then they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy. And they stayed continually at the temple, praising God.


    Even angels worship Jesus

    Hebrews 1:5-6 New International Version (NIV)
    For to which of the angels did God ever say,

    “You are my Son;
    today I have become your Father”?

    Or again,

    “I will be his Father,
    and he will be my Son”?

    And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,

    “Let all God’s angels worship him.”

    I believe you missed these verses.
     
  6. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    to revere someone doesn't require idolatry. the bible forbids it. jesus forbade it.
     
  7. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    The Lord Jesus is worshiped by his disciples
    The Lord Jesus is worshiped by God's angels
    The Lord Jesus was worshiped by people whom he performed miracles

    The ones who did not and refused to worship the Lord Jesus Christ are:
    the antichrists
    the Jews who killed him
    the devil and his children​

    I believe I have enlarged the words that you must see but still you did not see.
    Even those the Lord Jesus opened their eyes worship him.
    But those who have good pair of eyes, couldn't see?

    miracles.jpg

    John 9:1-38

    As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”

    “Neither this man nor his parents sinned,” said Jesus, “but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him. As long as it is day, we must do the works of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work. While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”

    After saying this, he spit on the ground, made some mud with the saliva, and put it on the man’s eyes. “Go,” he told him, “wash in the Pool of Siloam” (this word means “Sent”). So the man went and washed, and came home seeing.

    His neighbors and those who had formerly seen him begging asked, “Isn’t this the same man who used to sit and beg?” Some claimed that he was.

    Others said, “No, he only looks like him.”

    But he himself insisted, “I am the man.”

    “How then were your eyes opened?” they asked.

    He replied, “The man they call Jesus made some mud and put it on my eyes. He told me to go to Siloam and wash. So I went and washed, and then I could see.”

    “Where is this man?” they asked him.

    “I don’t know,” he said.

    They brought to the Pharisees the man who had been blind. Now the day on which Jesus had made the mud and opened the man’s eyes was a Sabbath. Therefore the Pharisees also asked him how he had received his sight. “He put mud on my eyes,” the man replied, “and I washed, and now I see.”

    Some of the Pharisees said, “This man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath.”

    But others asked, “How can a sinner perform such signs?” So they were divided.

    Then they turned again to the blind man, “What have you to say about him? It was your eyes he opened.”

    The man replied, “He is a prophet.”

    They still did not believe that he had been blind and had received his sight until they sent for the man’s parents. “Is this your son?” they asked. “Is this the one you say was born blind? How is it that now he can see?”

    “We know he is our son,” the parents answered, “and we know he was born blind. But how he can see now, or who opened his eyes, we don’t know. Ask him. He is of age; he will speak for himself.” His parents said this because they were afraid of the Jewish leaders, who already had decided that anyone who acknowledged that Jesus was the Messiah would be put out of the synagogue. That was why his parents said, “He is of age; ask him.”

    A second time they summoned the man who had been blind. “Give glory to God by telling the truth,” they said. “We know this man is a sinner.”

    He replied, “Whether he is a sinner or not, I don’t know. One thing I do know. I was blind but now I see!”

    Then they asked him, “What did he do to you? How did he open your eyes?”

    He answered, “I have told you already and you did not listen. Why do you want to hear it again? Do you want to become his disciples too?”

    Then they hurled insults at him and said, “You are this fellow’s disciple! We are disciples of Moses! We know that God spoke to Moses, but as for this fellow, we don’t even know where he comes from.”

    The man answered, “Now that is remarkable! You don’t know where he comes from, yet he opened my eyes. We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly person who does his will. Nobody has ever heard of opening the eyes of a man born blind. If this man were not from God, he could do nothing.”

    To this they replied, “You were steeped in sin at birth; how dare you lecture us!” And they threw him out.

    Jesus heard that they had thrown him out, and when he found him, he said, “Do you believe in the Son of Man?”

    “Who is he, sir?” the man asked. “Tell me so that I may believe in him.”

    Jesus said, “You have now seen him; in fact, he is the one speaking with you.”

    Then the man said, “Lord, I believe,” and he worshiped him.
     
  8. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    When you say that the spirit bears witness that we are the children, does that mean that everyone is automatically a child of God? We do not have to do anything like join a church or be baptized? Everyone who ever lived is just automatically a child of God?
     
  9. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    yes, but all do not understand, or recognize that.

    jesus didn't join a church. an outward baptism doesn't really change the inner man.


    Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.


    immersion of self in the Father's name, brings self realization. john said that jesus would baptized with fire; which is reminiscent of the holy ghost.
     
  10. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Thanks, Tony. Yes, I am hale and hearty and hope and wish that you too are the same. Personal Agenda? Whose? Babis or Bahaullah? However, it does not matter to me. For me, they are both ignorant and claiming false things.
    Are they?
    [​IMG]
     
    #50 Aupmanyav, Mar 4, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2019
  11. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    call no man good, why do you call me good master?


    i show my parents and most elderly, and babies respect but i dare not idolize them.



    the word you're using is to show reverence to all who are


    1. to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence

    2. among the Orientals, esp. the Persians, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence

    3. in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication
      1. used of homage shown to men and beings of superior rank
        1. to the Jewish high priests

        2. to God

        3. to Christ

        4. to heavenly beings

        5. to demons
    Strong’s Definitions G4314 and a probable derivative of G2965 (meaning to kiss, like a dog licking his master's hand); to fawn or crouch to, i.e. (literally or figuratively) prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to, adore):—worship.


    Genesis 1:1 (KJV)


    no where in the bible does jesus ever say to worship him as an idol, or in idolatry. jesus fell down and worshiped god, he didn't worship himself, nor should any man be idolized.

    Rev 22:8-Rev 22:9 KJV And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
     
  12. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    Just curious then. Why would Jesus say "you must be born again"? It kind of sounds like you are born as a human the first time and then born again as a spirit being to be God's child. So being born again has nothing to do with it? What happens then when one is born again? I would really like to hear your views.
     
  13. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    quick synopsis

    the spirit is entombed in the earth at birth. let the dead bury the dead. earth gives birth to flesh, the spirit gives birth to spirit. unless you are born of water and spirit you can in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven.


    Gen 1:2 KJV And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters

    heaven and earth, self came to be because god spoke and the spirit moved.................


    he who overcomes the first death of the spirit and by rebirth, resurrection death of the body has no power over him.


    Revelation 20:6
    Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
     
  14. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Well-Known Member
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    Thats great, thank you and may you always be so.

    Regards Tony
     
  15. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    you crossed a line....
    the Our Father was given as answer to the request
    Teach us to pray

    the actual instruction....go to your closet and close the door
    and the Spirit that knows you will hear you

    either practice is kinda scary......if you think about it
     
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  16. Workman

    Workman UNIQUE

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    My understanding of this is little different, True! Jacob did see face to face with God, only though! Not in how it sounds like.


    1 Corinthians 13:12

    For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

    It speaks of the one whom finally sees past the glass(which many are still inside). And in whom for that one looks to through the glass, will see and know The Father(God). Therefore the one will already have known TheFace(knowledge), Thus! it is the Face that passed one through the glass, and the face is from the Father. When one finds face(knowledge) to wear(Learn) over his own(face to face),
    One will lighten!
    and walk among the unknown,
    and become known to it all.
     
  17. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    When you get out of all clap-trap, that is when you are born again.
     
  18. Workman

    Workman UNIQUE

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    I believe it is because The Father works through Jesus as well Jesus works for the Father. Meaning one can only access the Father through Jesus and his teachings, that is the only way to draw one closer to the father, is through Jesus Christ.
    Here Jesus speaks of the Father allowing Jesus himself to teach whom he loves and showing them the way to the father.
    Might I believe is different
    My understanding of this says for those who will not believe in God will be death and remain dusts for earth, but for their spirits are not worthy of it, be ‘Will’, be reclaimed back unto God.
    Jesus’ was TheFathers Order in strengthening(not something) oneself before Judgement day comes.
     
  19. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Oldest Heretic

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    My inclination is to worship through the Holy Spirit.
    it is the Holy spirit that is always with us.and is our souls personal connection to God
    My second inclination is to pray to God the Father, though I suspect that there is little reason to do so, as he is aware of everything including our needs.
    I rarely if ever pray through Jesus, even though that is how many church prayers end.
     
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  20. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    I'm high...:rolleyes:
     
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