One who sins is of the devil, and does not know God.

[CeilingCat]

As per the opening post. I always saw that statement in light of the rest of what it says to be a contradiction.
whoever sins is of the devil, right?
but if we sin we have an advocate with the father, right?
so, how can we have an advocate with the father, if we are of the devil?

 

[Johnlove]

Johnlove,

I've NEVER said we come to know God by studying. The Bible doesn't teach that, as you affirm here. I've said rather that already-saved Christians MUST study (desperately, some of them) to show themselves (already made) acceptable! We can start by acknowledging there are more verses than the ones you keep sharing from Matthew 7, John 16 and 1 Cor 2, and I say that to you in love! You must study. When you do, you will become a VERY powerful witness and apologist. I foresee that.

Again you don’t understand. Studding means I need to read and try to understand what I am reading.


I don’t think about what a scripture means God gives me the meaning.


I don’t think about what to say to people, if on the forums, or in person. Jesus gives me the words.


My witness is only as powerful as Jesus would have it be.

 

[savagewind]

Studying does not mean figure it out by studying it. It means know it. Most people know only some scripture. Study the scriptures means know all of it.

Again you don’t understand. Studding means I need to read and try to understand what I am reading

Please, it is studying not studding.

I don’t think about what a scripture means God gives me the meaning.

good.

I don’t think about what to say to people, if on the forums, or in person. Jesus gives me the words.
My witness is only as powerful as Jesus would have it be.

Interesting.

 

[Johnlove]

Studying does not mean figure it out by studying it. It means know it. Most people know only some scripture. Study the scriptures means know all of it.
Please, it is studying not studding.
good.
Interesting.

Sorry the ability to spell is not a gift God gave me.

 

[savagewind]

Sorry the ability to spell is not a gift God gave me.

It is OK.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Paul told Timothy to read scripture. Timothy needed to read the Old Testament to help him convince people Jesus was the Christ.


Jesus told me to get more into God’s written Word also. Because Jesus knew that I would need to know the bible to be able to witness on the forums.


I did not need to read the bible to come to know God. Jesus personally taught me to know him. Jesus had been personally teaching me for over a year before he told me to get more into the written Word.


Reading the bible can be useful, but it will not bring one to know God.


(1 Corinthians 2:10-13) “These are the very things that God has revealed to us through the Spirit, for the Spirit reaches the depts. Of everything, even the depths of God. After all, the depths of a man can only be known by his own spirit, not by any other man, and in the same way the depths of God can only be known by the Spirit of God


By the way a saved person does not describe anyone but someone who has accepted Jesus as the Christ.


Saved does not mean one is on his or her way to heaven, and will make it there. If you think people assumption is correct then show me the scripture that say that assumption is true.


Jesus in the following scripture told us who it is that will go to heaven with him.


(Matthew 7:21-23) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”

What then are they saved from if not from Hell? Because if it's ignorance regarding the Lord's person, knowledge cannot save...

 

[Johnlove]

What then are they saved from if not from Hell? Because if it's ignorance regarding the Lord's person, knowledge cannot save...

I am saying that saved does not mean one will go to heaven.


Jesus told us who it is that would come to heaven with him, and it was not those who sin.


(Matthew 7:21-23) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”


Personally I believe saved only means one will not go to hell. So I believe that there is another place where those who chose not to live all of God’s Words will go. A place of different degrees of punishment.


(John 12:47-48) “If anyone hears my words and does not keep them faithfully, it is not I who shall condemn him, since I have come not to condemn the world, but to save the world: he who rejects me and refuses my words has his judge already: the word itself that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day.”


I believe those who the words that Jesus gave us will be their Judge will never enter Heaven, but will spend eternity in a place other than hell.


(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. -------------“


I believe the above scripture tells of the place where people who do not keep God’s Word will go.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I am saying that saved does not mean one will go to heaven.


Jesus told us who it is that would come to heaven with him, and it was not those who sin.


(Matthew 7:21-23) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”


Personally I believe saved only means one will not go to hell. So I believe that there is another place where those who chose not to live all of God’s Words will go. A place of different degrees of punishment.


(John 12:47-48) “If anyone hears my words and does not keep them faithfully, it is not I who shall condemn him, since I have come not to condemn the world, but to save the world: he who rejects me and refuses my words has his judge already: the word itself that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day.”


I believe those who the words that Jesus gave us will be their Judge will never enter Heaven, but will spend eternity in a place other than hell.


(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. -------------“


I believe the above scripture tells of the place where people who do not keep God’s Word will go.

I addressed this on another thread. There are two destinations only for people.

 

[Johnlove]

I addressed this on another thread. There are two destinations only for people.

Show me the scripture that tells us there is only Heaven or Hell.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Show me the scripture that tells us there is only Heaven or Hell.

Revelation chapters 21 and 22. The redeemed walk in the light of life and in the New Jerusalem which is Heaven come down to meet Earth. The Father, Son and Spirit dwell within His temple. Sinners go to the White Throne Judgment and then to Hell.

Johnlove, the problem arises when Jesus personally tells you doctrines that tens of millions of Bible loving, fundamentalist, sola scriptura, Greek and Hebrew studying Jesus worshippers haven't heard anywhere before. Though I agree with you wholeheartedly that the vast majority of people who claim to be saved aren't, and many people who claim to know the Bible do not, that the minority is still tens of millions of us who are saved and know we're saved from Hell to Heaven and not somewhere else. With respect, the Witnesses and Mormons are absolutely wrong in this matter. And it bothers me when your doctrine matches theirs!

But I think some of the confusion arises because there is a redeemed, new Earth in the Bible. But there are no saved people who can visit this Earth without also being allowed in Heaven. One ticket--two admissions.

 

[Johnlove]

Revelation chapters 21 and 22. The redeemed walk in the light of life and in the New Jerusalem which is Heaven come down to meet Earth. The Father, Son and Spirit dwell within His temple. Sinners go to the White Throne Judgment and then to Hell.

Johnlove, the problem arises when Jesus personally tells you doctrines that tens of millions of Bible loving, fundamentalist, sola scriptura, Greek and Hebrew studying Jesus worshippers haven't heard anywhere before. Though I agree with you wholeheartedly that the vast majority of people who claim to be saved aren't, and many people who claim to know the Bible do not, that the minority is still tens of millions of us who are saved and know we're saved from Hell to Heaven and not somewhere else. With respect, the Witnesses and Mormons are absolutely wrong in this matter. And it bothers me when your doctrine matches theirs!

But I think some of the confusion arises because there is a redeemed, new Earth in the Bible. But there are no saved people who can visit this Earth without also being allowed in Heaven. One ticket--two admissions.

If Jesus wanted people to know everything about the hereafter he would have let people know.


You see I have no interest is convincing others about God. For now all I am to do is give a word to those who say they are Christian.

 

[Katzpur]

With respect, the Witnesses and Mormons are absolutely wrong in this matter.

Just so that we're clear on this... would you explain Mormon doctrine as you understand it?

 

[BilliardsBall]

If Jesus wanted people to know everything about the hereafter he would have let people know.


You see I have no interest is convincing others about God. For now all I am to do is give a word to those who say they are Christian.

I'd recommend instead you witness to lost people.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Just so that we're clear on this... would you explain Mormon doctrine as you understand it?

Am I going to Heaven? I'm not a Mormon, but have trusted Jesus Christ for salvation. Thanks.

 

[Johnlove]

I'd recommend instead you witness to lost people.

I witness to those Jesus has for me to witness.


You should know that if one sins he or she is lost.


(1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because is of the devil. The devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work”

 

[Katzpur]

Am I going to Heaven? I'm not a Mormon, but have trusted Jesus Christ for salvation. Thanks.

Absolutely! It has been said that Mormonism believes in the largest Heaven and the smallest Hell of any Christian denomination.

 

[hispanicmormon]

I don’t think about what a scripture means God gives me the meaning.

While God does inspire us when we read scripture, we have to do the work and study to discover hidden meanings. You have to ask yourself what something means. Not only do you have to pray to God for guidance to understand what a scripture means, but you have to study the historical and theological context of the scripture.

Am I going to Heaven? I'm not a Mormon, but have trusted Jesus Christ for salvation. Thanks.

The Mormons actually have it right. Read 2 Corinthians 12:2. There are 3 heavens, as taught in Mormon theology.

 

[Johnlove]

While God does inspire us when we read scripture, we have to do the work and study to discover hidden meanings. You have to ask yourself what something means. Not only do you have to pray to God for guidance to understand what a scripture means, but you have to study the historical and theological context of the scripture.

Scripture tells us that the Holy Spirit will teach us everything, then if that is true why do we need to study the written Word of God?


(1 John 2: 27) “But you have not lost the anointing that he gave you, and you do not need anyone to teach you; the anointing he gave teaches you everything: you are anointed with truth, not with a lie, and as it has taught you, so you must stay in him.”




The Mormons actually have it right. Read 2 Corinthians 12:2. There are 3 heavens, as taught in Mormon theology.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Absolutely! It has been said that Mormonism believes in the largest Heaven and the smallest Hell of any Christian denomination.

Then 1) am I going to the "third" or highest heaven? and 2) why should I leave my evangelical church to become a Mormon?

Thank you.

 

[Katzpur]

Then 1) am I going to the "third" or highest heaven? and 2) why should I leave my evangelical church to become a Mormon?

Thank you.

It would be extremely presumptuous of me to try to second-guess where you're going to end up after the Final Judgement. Apparently you already know that we believe in a three-tiered Heaven, as we believe is referenced in 1 Corinthians 15). We believe that the highest "degree of glory," compared in glory to the sun, is called the Celestial Kingdom. The second highest, with a glory comparable to that of the moon, is the Terrestrial Kingdom. The lowest, with a glory like that of the stars, is the "Telestial Kingdom." It is almost certain that you would not go to the lowest kingdom and it is entirely possible that you may go to the highest. The thing is, we don't believe that death marks the final opportunity for us to make choices which will impact our ultimate destination. Of course, this is a very simplistic explanation, but the bottom line is that we do not believe a person's final reward in heaven is to be based upon his denomination here on earth. Mormons are not assured a spot in the Celestial Kingdom any more than non-Mormons are guaranteed to end up in one of the lower kingdoms.