One Dems Plan to Keep Trump from Presidency.

[metis]

Ok, those two republicans hated Trump,

Both had voted for him in 2016, so did you ever stop and think that just maybe they hated what he was doing?

It was nothing more than a show trial Stalin style. The outcome was predetermined.

Absolutely false, and you should be ashamed of posting that.

No where did they interview Pelosi and what her actions were, no where did they investigate where Kamala was, no where did they investigate the capital police failings on that day.

We know what she did to try and get Pence to bring in the National Guard.

When you make up or parrot such dung, it's pretty much impossible to have an intelligent and honest discussion with you. I watched most of the hearings, and it's appalling how little you actually know and how much you post nonsense. My guess is that you're getting your "news" from right-wing sources who are defending Trump and spewing the propaganda you are swallowing hook, line, & sinker.

 

[metis]

Trump orchestrated the insurrection. His insipid words hours into it didn't convince anybody. They were undoubtedly words given to him to speak that he objected to initially. When has he EVER said anything comparable?

Absolutely true as some in his own staff have testified under oath have stated.

 

[metis]

Have you heard how they talk about him? They hate him and the J6 committee was not impartial, they were not looking for the truth. It is naive to think that they were. The same party that ran that committee was the same party that was behind the fake dossier. Why should I believe them.

In order to make that the truth, then almost all those witnesses, most of which Trump hired or appointed, had to be lying while under oath.

Your position makes 0 sense even on the logical level.

 

[F1fan]

You use a lot of language that is not substantiated to poison the well. Like "Pence for not cheating", "obvious crimes", "insane criminal activity", "Maga Media" and "disinformation content" for example. So any counter argument looks like I am for criminal activity or obvious crimes and my claims cannot have merit which may or may not be the case.

Yet Trump is on video asking pence to cheat (which he didn't). And their are obvious crimes, they are on video. And MAGAmedia is an established term that means right wing disinformation that benefits trump and his allies. So could it be you just don;t like your political position exposed in such negative ways? You certainly don;t present arguments that rebut anything your critics assert. You just don't like it. That's the nature of discourse. If you have a position that is pro-democracy, acknowledges crimes, values government and law, and accepts observations about Trump that are disturbing, then you are keeping it a secret.

I never said no one did any criminal acts on Jan 6th, the people that did should be prosecuted fairly and with real justice. The facts are that there was questions about the fairness of some of the voting.

The Trump advocates filed 61 lawsuits in regards to voting irregulatities and 60 were dismissed. The only win was about how far observers could stand to hand vote counters, from 10 feet to 6 feet. So your side has nothing. The book Disproven has just come out and it disspells all the claims made by Trump and others. The author was hired by Trump to go find out if there was voter fraud.

For example, the PA courts and Governor changed voting laws prior to the election in violation of the US constitution that says states legislatures are the ones to change state election laws for federal elections not the courts or governors.

A non-issue. States have the authority to run their own elections. And many states changed their laws due to the problems and fears caused by the pandemic. The only problem for republicans is that more people voted because of the laws allowing more convenient methods. We know that republicans have been trying to limit voting for areas and groups that tend to vote democrat, and they are even on video admitting it. Huge scandal. It tells us that conservatives know their polices are not popular and need to cheat to win.

I don't believe there is good evidence that shows there was a conspiracy that included Trump to overthrow the election.

Then you haven't been paying attention to reputable reporting. It is readily available. I will post links later when I have more time.

Things got out of hand, Trump wanted a peaceful protest and later tweeted for people to leave.

There was nothing to protest. How many times have you been told it was all a lie? Jan 6 happened because Trump lied about voting fraud.

I do believe there is a different justice system for democrats and people against the democrats.

Look at Menendez. He's facing more charges. He's a democrat. I think you need better media sources.

The classified records charges against Trump show this difference. The recent report and testimony by Hur shows Biden had classified documents in less secure places over longer periods of time and violated the same laws Trump did, yet he gets a pass.

The difference is that Biden did not know of these documents. They were likely packed by aids. The same with pence. Biden cooperated fully. Trump not only took the documents deliberately he lied to the FBI and the Archives, and then hid boxes when there were warrants for a search. Trump got a heads up before the search, that is special treatment. The rest of us would have the cops show up at the door without warning. They can even break down your door if you refuse to cooperate. You could then be arrested for obstruction of justice, as Trump and his helpers are.

There are many examples of this and this is one reason why so many people will vote for Trump because he is being persecuted by the democrats to make sure he won't get elected.

Trump supporters are not well informed. They are surely being duped by MAGAmedia and it's disinformation.

If you think these democrats are all people just looking for justice or the truth you are very naive. Have you ever wondered why all these cases are happening now together right before the election? It is a very scary time in America and for our freedom and liberty.

First it is the DOJ that is investigating and indicting Trump. And have you noticed Trump is working hard to delay his trials in hopes of getting elected and then using his power to get the charges dropped? You and otehr MAGAs are woefully ignorant on these cases and the facts. You aren;t aware of the security risk he poses. I'm not sure how anyone can watch what Trump says and does and support him as president. He is disturbed and an emotional crisis.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

So you didn't see all the video footage.

Of, Jan 6th? Yes.

Did Biden knowingly "steal" the douments? Sounds like no. Did Trump? Sounds like yes. Then he hid them, relocated them, advised his lawyers to lie about them, and ignored subpoenas asking for him to return them. Glaring difference between these actions and behaviours, which you've failed to address again.

The Hur report says Biden knew he was sharing confidential information to his ghostwriter. From Hur report:

Based on our review of the notebooks and recorded interviews, when Mr. Biden came to potentially classified material in his notebook entries, he appears to have sometimes stopped at or skipped over the potentially classified materiaL Zwonitzer also recalled Mr. Biden mentioning the need to be careful "because he was worried that there was a possibility that ... some of this stuff [handwritten entries in the notebooks] could be classified." According to Zwonitzer, "there were things he couldn't tell me, lines he couldn't cross." At other times, however, Mr. Biden read his notes from classified meetings to Zwonitzer nearly word-for-word.

It's the unfortunate truth, as far as I can see. They don't even care that they support a civilly liable sexual abuser. If that's not bad enough for them, what is?

There is zero good evidence that he did it. They believed her and not him, that is it.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Every decent human being hates Trump. In all of the House, that included two Republicans.

Ok, have a great day!

 

[Subduction Zone]

There is zero good evidence that he did it. They believed her and not him, that is it.

No, that is false. There was plenty of good evidence that he did it. Are you forgetting all of the examples that have been given to you endlessly?

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Both had voted for him in 2016, so did you ever stop and think that just maybe they hated what he was doing?



Absolutely false, and you should be ashamed of posting that.



We know what she did to try and get Pence to bring in the National Guard.

When you make up or parrot such dung, it's pretty much impossible to have an intelligent and honest discussion with you. I watched most of the hearings, and it's appalling how little you actually know and how much you post nonsense. My guess is that you're getting your "news" from right-wing sources who are defending Trump and spewing the propaganda you are swallowing hook, line, & sinker.

Why do believe the Jan 6th report and committee findings?

1. It was a committee run and controlled by democrats that had total control of the government against their main political rival and total control of how the committee was run and what they put out.

2. They could have picked two republicans that were in favor of Trump instead. Why didn't they do that? They didn't so they can say it was bipartisan but still keep control of what was put out and concluded. They picked two republicans that wanted him convicted.

3. There was no avenue for any kind of rebuttal to what the committee was looking at from Trump's side.

4. Do you remember any mainstream media questioning what was being put out by the committee? They all just parroted what they claimed to be the truth. Why? They push back on anything a republican says but never what the democrat party says. If you look at it objectively you will see this.

5. How do we know we have all the evidence the committee had?

This was 100% a democrat party operation against a political opponent. So why would I believe it is the entire truth?

If the republicans started a committee of all republicans to find out if Biden took payment for influence and access and came to the conclusion that he did and he should be charged with crimes would you accept those conclusions?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Why do believe the Jan 6th report and committee findings?

1. It was a committee run and controlled by democrats that had total control of the government against their main political rival and total control of how the committee was run and what they put out.

Total control? I do not think so. They were able run how the investigation went, but I doubt if you could show that there was any exculpatory evidence for Trump, much less show that it was not allowed to be presented.

2. They could have picked two republicans that were in favor of Trump instead. Why didn't they do that? They didn't so they can say it was bipartisan but still keep control of what was put out and concluded. They picked two republicans that wanted him convicted.

The Republicans lost the ability to demand who they had representing their party in earlier investigations of Trump. Once one shows that one is going to be dishonest and only try to hinder an investigation one cannot claim a right to be part of it. Did you forget the first impeachment trial where the dishonest Republican controlled Senate did not even allow any evidence to be presented, and there was plenty of it. You may be conflating which side has been dishonest in this whole process.

3. There was no avenue for any kind of rebuttal to what the committee was looking at from Trump's side.

Citation needed. And what sort of rebuttal could have been presented? No one has done so here yet and there have been plenty of chances.

4. Do you remember any mainstream media questioning what was being put out by the committee? They all just parroted what they claimed to be the truth. Why? They push back on anything a republican says but never what the democrat party says. If you look at it objectively you will see this.

Do you ever see the mainstream media denying that a rock will fall when it is dropped? When all of the evidence supports only one side what is to be questioned? You have not provided any evidence for Trump. No one ever has.

5. How do we know we have all the evidence the committee had?

The inability of Republicans who still have access to the evidence to provide a counter argument tells all.

This was 100% a democrat party operation against a political opponent. So why would I believe it is the entire truth?

Because it was a fairly open investigation. The Republicans had nothing. They have shown nothing since the investigation and they have had plenty of time and opportunity to do so. Do you know the most likely reason that all of the evidence points to Trump? It is because he was almost surely the cause of the problem.

If the republicans started a committee of all republicans to find out if Biden took payment for influence and access and came to the conclusion that he did and he should be charged with crimes would you accept those conclusions?

If they had actual evidence, yes. Meanwhile their star witness turned out to be a Russian plant that lied. Find some evidence that Biden is guilty and I have no problem prosecuting him. Even Hunter Biden who did break some laws has shown far more integrity than the Republicans. He wanted an hearing. Providing that it was open so both sides could see who was asking what and what evidence was provided. It was the Republicans that refused to do that.

Throughout this whole process it has always been the Democrats that wanted things as open as possible and the Republicans that wanted everything behind closed doors. That should tell you enough on its own.

 

[fantome profane]

3. There was no avenue for any kind of rebuttal to what the committee was looking at from Trump's side.

Do you understand that this was not a trial? This was a Congressional Committee that was charged with finding the truth and presenting it to the American people.

This was like the 911 committee, that was likewise charged with finding the the facts surrounding the September 11th attack. The 911 committee did not have any avenue for rebuttal from the terrorists, nor should they have.

And I don't see any reason the Jan 6th committee should provide a rebuttal from terrorists either.

 

[F1fan]

Of, Jan 6th? Yes.

The Hur report says Biden knew he was sharing confidential information to his ghostwriter. From Hur report:

Based on our review of the notebooks and recorded interviews, when Mr. Biden came to potentially classified material in his notebook entries, he appears to have sometimes stopped at or skipped over the potentially classified materiaL Zwonitzer also recalled Mr. Biden mentioning the need to be careful "because he was worried that there was a possibility that ... some of this stuff [handwritten entries in the notebooks] could be classified." According to Zwonitzer, "there were things he couldn't tell me, lines he couldn't cross." At other times, however, Mr. Biden read his notes from classified meetings to Zwonitzer nearly word-for-word.

There is zero good evidence that he did it. They believed her and not him, that is it.

The classified information was in his personal notebooks. Not government documents. Completely different issue.

Now should a former government official have classified information on personal notebooks is a question that should have an answer.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

There is zero good evidence that he did it. They believed her and not him, that is it.

If you believe that "there is zero good evidence that he did it," you haven't been paying attention. It's possible Carroll made it all up, but the story is credible, Carroll is not known to be a liar, and Trump is a self-confessed sexual predator who enjoys grabbing women by their genitals. If Carroll is making it all up, Trump gave her the opportunity to do so credibly by making that claim. If you say something like that, you open the door, just as if you are ever heard saying that you want somebody dead, somebody else can kill them and you'll be the principal suspect.

I used to be a hospice medical director, and from time to time, we would have patients claim repeatedly that their hospice caregivers were abusing them. I can't say that they were lying, but I knew the accused caregivers, could vouch for their caring nature, and nobody else made the same complaints about them, meaning that if they were lying, they made it possible for those caregivers to abuse them with impunity and be believed when they denied it.

Why do believe the Jan 6th report and committee findings?

Because we saw the insurrection, we heard testimony from participants including many that were convicted, and we saw the committee's evidence (footage, witness testimony from credible witnesses working in the Trump White House).

It was a committee run and controlled by democrats that had total control of the government against their main political rival and total control of how the committee was run and what they put out.

There were two Republicans on the committee, but they weren't reporting to MAGA congresspersons. That was McCarthy's choice. McCarthy’s decision left the MAGAs in the Republican conference completely in the dark. The GOP never knew what the committee had, couldn’t prepare defenses for Trump, couldn't influence the direction of the investigation, couldn't ask contrary questions during public or private proceedings, couldn't leak anything, and couldn't dilute the panel’s findings in advance of the final report. But that's what they chose.

They could have picked two republicans that were in favor of Trump instead. Why didn't they do that?

They chose members of Congress that were neither for nor against Trump, just people that were against criminal behavior.

They didn't so they can say it was bipartisan but still keep control of what was put out and concluded.

It was bipartisan.

They picked two republicans that wanted him convicted.

There's no indication that either of them had any opinion before reviewing the evidence. They both voted for Trump in 2016.

There was no avenue for any kind of rebuttal to what the committee was looking at from Trump's side.

Everybody was free to attempt to rebut the committee's finding, and several tried.

Do you remember any mainstream media questioning what was being put out by the committee?

There were plenty of pundits challenging the committee. Hannity and Carlson come to mind. People like Cooper, Tapper, Maddow, and Melber were satisfied with the committee's report.

This was 100% a democrat party operation against a political opponent.

The committee was bipartisan and its mission was not political. It was to investigate the events surrounding J6, prepare a report, and if relevant, make a criminal referral to the DOJ. Smith is tasked with the same mission and had good enough evidence to convince a grand jury to indict Trump in criminal court. Those grand jurors weren't working for the Democratic Party. They were independently doing their civic duty.

Playing the partisan politics card doesn't work here except with MAGAs. Trump is claiming the same thing about his upcoming criminal trials, framing them as partisan politics intended to keep him out of the White House. Nobody impartial is buying that, either. Multiple judges have already ruled against the claim.

The next committee to judge that evidence will be the jury hearing the case in court. They'll be reviewing the evidence Smith presents to them. You should expect a conviction.

If the republicans started a committee of all republicans to find out if Biden took payment for influence and access and came to the conclusion that he did and he should be charged with crimes would you accept those conclusions?

If they had compelling evidence, yes.

Funny you should mention that. The MAGA-directed Biden impeachment rumblings were exactly what you accused the J6 committee of - pure partisan politics generating no credible charges. You saw what happens when you go that route. Nothing.

 

[metis]

Why do believe the Jan 6th report and committee findings?

1. It was a committee run and controlled by democrats that had total control of the government against their main political rival and total control of how the committee was run and what they put out.

2. They could have picked two republicans that were in favor of Trump instead. Why didn't they do that? They didn't so they can say it was bipartisan but still keep control of what was put out and concluded. They picked two republicans that wanted him convicted.

3. There was no avenue for any kind of rebuttal to what the committee was looking at from Trump's side.

4. Do you remember any mainstream media questioning what was being put out by the committee? They all just parroted what they claimed to be the truth. Why? They push back on anything a republican says but never what the democrat party says. If you look at it objectively you will see this.

5. How do we know we have all the evidence the committee had?

This was 100% a democrat party operation against a political opponent. So why would I believe it is the entire truth?

If the republicans started a committee of all republicans to find out if Biden took payment for influence and access and came to the conclusion that he did and he should be charged with crimes would you accept those conclusions?

The above is nothing but partisan political nonsense matched with ignorance as to what was said under oath even by former Trump supporters. You simply didn't pay attention to the many hours that this was covered, and now you are too willing to make up lame excuses.

Go watch more of the Fox Propaganda Channel for all I care.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Of, Jan 6th? Yes.

You didn't watch the hearings, but you saw all the footage that was presented?

Of, Jan 6th? Yes.

The Hur report says Biden knew he was sharing confidential information to his ghostwriter. From Hur report:

Based on our review of the notebooks and recorded interviews, when Mr. Biden came to potentially classified material in his notebook entries, he appears to have sometimes stopped at or skipped over the potentially classified materiaL Zwonitzer also recalled Mr. Biden mentioning the need to be careful "because he was worried that there was a possibility that ... some of this stuff [handwritten entries in the notebooks] could be classified." According to Zwonitzer, "there were things he couldn't tell me, lines he couldn't cross." At other times, however, Mr. Biden read his notes from classified meetings to Zwonitzer nearly word-for-word.

I see another poster has already addressed this. But notice how you ignored my other questions which clearly show the massive difference between the Trump scenario and the Biden/Pence scenario.

There is zero good evidence that he did it. They believed her and not him, that is it.

He's been found liable for sexual abuse and defamation in a court of law. With a judge. Then fined for further defaming her on television and in tweets. You can read them for yourself. He did it, based on the preponderance of evidence.
But I don't expect Trump supporters to accept reality, unfortunately, when it comes to Dear Leader. I can only imagine what you'd be saying if Joe Biden were in this situation.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Why do believe the Jan 6th report and committee findings?

1. It was a committee run and controlled by democrats that had total control of the government against their main political rival and total control of how the committee was run and what they put out.

Nope. Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger were also on the committee. They're Republicans.

2. They could have picked two republicans that were in favor of Trump instead. Why didn't they do that? They didn't so they can say it was bipartisan but still keep control of what was put out and concluded. They picked two republicans that wanted him convicted.

Adam Kinzinger and Liz Cheney both voted for Trump.

3. There was no avenue for any kind of rebuttal to what the committee was looking at from Trump's side.

Trump was invited to the hearings. He didn't go.

4. Do you remember any mainstream media questioning what was being put out by the committee? They all just parroted what they claimed to be the truth. Why? They push back on anything a republican says but never what the democrat party says. If you look at it objectively you will see this.

Nonsense.

5. How do we know we have all the evidence the committee had?

They passed it all onto the DOJ.

This was 100% a democrat party operation against a political opponent. So why would I believe it is the entire truth?

Nope. That is just factually incorrect.

If the republicans started a committee of all republicans to find out if Biden took payment for influence and access and came to the conclusion that he did and he should be charged with crimes would you accept those conclusions?

You mean like the one investigating Hunter Biden and trying to impeach Joe Biden with no evidence of any crimes?

 

[Subduction Zone]

He's been found liable for sexual abuse and defamation in a court of law. With a judge.

And a jury. In that case there was a jury of nine and the finding for Carroll was unanimous. I think that for that sort of case in New York State (and it gets complicated so I could be wrong) they only needed eight jurors to vote "guilty".

 

[SkepticThinker]

And a jury. In that case there was a jury of nine and the finding for Carroll was unanimous. I think that for that sort of case in New York State (and it gets complicated so I could be wrong) they only needed eight jurors to vote "guilty".

Yes! Thank you. Forgot that part.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

The classified information was in his personal notebooks. Not government documents. Completely different issue.

Now should a former government official have classified information on personal notebooks is a question that should have an answer.

It is not completely different but whatever. It was a choice by the justice department that reports to Biden not to prosecute. Just like it was a choice not to prosecute Hillary. They both broke laws on classified information and had no authority to declassify anything, Trump had that authority as president. Hillary did not cooperate, she deleted emails, destroyed phones etc. and just because someone cooperates does not mean they should not be held accountable for their crimes. Trumps documents were locked at Mar a Lago, Bidens were multiple places not secured and were used as reference material to write a book. The justice department that reports to Biden is making a choice to prosecute their main political opponent when they have precedent not to. Talk about dangers to democracy, this is it.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

The above is nothing but partisan political nonsense matched with ignorance as to what was said under oath even by former Trump supporters. You simply didn't pay attention to the many hours that this was covered, and now you are too willing to make up lame excuses.

Go watch more of the Fox Propaganda Channel for all I care.

Ok, have a great weekend.

 

[metis]

They both broke laws on classified information and had no authority to declassify anything,

But Trump was the only one who refused to turn them over.

Trumps documents were locked at Mar a Lago,

Absolutely false, as one of the men Trump hired just recently said that Trump wanted them to be moved so he could "use" them again, plus Trump was showing them to unauthorized personnel.

The justice department that reports to Biden is making a choice to prosecute their main political opponent when they have precedent not to.

The Justice Department motely operates as an independent agency in the Executive Branch, and Trump has threated to use it for "retribution" against his political enemies.