1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured On the Shoulders of Newton . . .

Discussion in 'Science and Religion' started by Native, Jan 10, 2021.

  1. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2018
    Messages:
    10,736
    Ratings:
    +9,674
    Religion:
    RC (culturally at least)
    Yes, I gather he never proceeded to take holy orders, as was at the time expected to hold position at Cambridge, being a kind of unconventional Unitarian. Thanks for the tip about the book: it looks worth a read. I may buy it.
     
  2. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2018
    Messages:
    10,736
    Ratings:
    +9,674
    Religion:
    RC (culturally at least)
    Well he probably would have been. He was a man of his time, after all, and a Protestant, for whom making up your own theology from what you read in the bible would have been standard practice.
     
  3. Native

    Native Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,042
    Ratings:
    +463
    Religion:
    Natural Perceptions
    Let alone if Newton knew just a little more of the modern understanding electromagnetic forces, which Newton described in this way:
    In modern times in cosmology, the term "Spirit" is a quick way to call forward names as "crank, crackpot and idiot".

    And if someone even dares to connect the here Newtonian term "spirit" to the term "electricity" as arguments in modern science, all consensus thinkers are quickly ready to smack you on your head.
     
  4. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    18,424
    Ratings:
    +21,457
    Religion:
    Non-theist
    Newton did some fundamental work in optics, including the discovery that a prism will split white light into a spectrum that can then be recombined to give white light.

    The early experiments on magnetism done by Gilbert had noticed its polarities by 1600, well before Newton. But the connection between this an electricity wasn't made until the early 19th century by Ampere.

    Whether Newton saw his 'spirit' as having anything to do with either electricity (not well studied in Newton's time) or to magnetism (studied, but still a lot unknown) is not known.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Native

    Native Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,042
    Ratings:
    +463
    Religion:
    Natural Perceptions
    Native said:
    To me THIS is a huge problem!
    Einstein is even worse than Newton in this specific matter.
    Once when you´ve explained what even Newton could´nt, I can begin to take this seriously.
     
  6. Native

    Native Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,042
    Ratings:
    +463
    Religion:
    Natural Perceptions
    And of course modern cosmological science choses to be stuck on Newtons unexplainable *force* instead of ALSO following the guru Newtons hints about other natural forces.
     
  7. Onoma

    Onoma Active Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2016
    Messages:
    575
    Ratings:
    +429
    I like this quote:

    "Amongst the Interpreters of the last age there is scarce one note who hath not made some discovery worth knowing, and thence seem to gather that God is about opening these mysteries. The success of others put me upon considering it; and if I have done anything which may be useful to the following writers, I have by design"

    ~ Sir Isaac Newton

    Interestingly, iirc, Greeks were known to have used glass globes filled with water to split light, but I'm wagering you probably knew this already
     
  8. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    18,424
    Ratings:
    +21,457
    Religion:
    Non-theist
    And, of course, you ignore the explanation given by Einstein.

    Yes, there are other natural forces *also*. To each in their place, as discovered by observation and testing.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Native

    Native Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,042
    Ratings:
    +463
    Religion:
    Natural Perceptions
    Nope. He simply induced the same idea to the Moon by correct calculations ascribed to unknown and unexplained forces.
     
  10. Native

    Native Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,042
    Ratings:
    +463
    Religion:
    Natural Perceptions
    We´re not discussing Einstein in this Op.
     
  11. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    18,424
    Ratings:
    +21,457
    Religion:
    Non-theist
    Yes, the same force that makes the apple fall also keeps the moon in its orbit. The same basic equations govern both. The calculations are *based* of the force through F=ma. How can those calculation be 'correct' and the force not?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    18,424
    Ratings:
    +21,457
    Religion:
    Non-theist
    And once again, Newton's applied his ideas to our solar system. The galaxy as a whole was not known about during his time. His laws of motion and proposed inverse square law of gravity served to *correct* the answers of earlier investigators. But they also served to explain the results of Galileo and Kepler.

    Newton's 'action at a distance' was philosophically controversial, but the fact that it worked in practice is the only test that is relevant. And it did, spectacularly, for over 200 years. After that, Einstein's ideas modified Newton's and obtained even more accuracy.

    if you want to complain that Newton's law of gravity is an action at a distance with no mechanism, you have to deal with the fact that Einstein's modifications are *not* an action at a distance.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  13. Native

    Native Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,042
    Ratings:
    +463
    Religion:
    Natural Perceptions
    You quoted in this matter:

    Native said:
    Let alone if Newton knew just a little more of the modern understanding electromagnetic forces, which Newton described in this way:

    In modern times in cosmology, the term "Spirit" is a quick way to call forward names as "crank, crackpot and idiot".

    And if someone even dares to connect the here Newtonian term "spirit" to the term "electricity" in modern science", all consensus thinkers are ready to smack you on your head.
    ---------------
    Please have the curtacy not to fiddle around with my sentenses when you´re quoting me.
     
  14. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    18,424
    Ratings:
    +21,457
    Religion:
    Non-theist
    I did not 'fiddle' with your sentences. I quoted without any changes.
     
  15. Native

    Native Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,042
    Ratings:
    +463
    Religion:
    Natural Perceptions
    You´re conflicting and confusing mathematical calculations in a force, which per definition just is induced and not deducted by logics.

    Explain the force to me before I can take it seriously.
     
  16. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    18,357
    Ratings:
    +9,328
    Religion:
    None
    Newton again exhumed for a science v woo woo encounter
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  17. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    18,424
    Ratings:
    +21,457
    Religion:
    Non-theist
    If we are putting Newton in his time, the fact that his laws explained Kepler's laws as well as Galileo's observations was considered strong evidence in his favor. That is same laws could be used to 'correct' the inaccuracies in Kepler's laws as well as explain everything from statics, to the dynamics of moving things, as well as later describing the dynamics of rotating bodies, was quite sufficient reason to take Newton's ideas seriously.

    That they had the issue of having a force at a distance was eventually seen a minor one compared to how much and in how many different situations Newton's ideas were found to work.

    Once the study of electricity and magnetism was carried far enough, even those forces were seen as *one* of the forces to which Newton's laws could be applied. And they were successfully.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  18. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    18,424
    Ratings:
    +21,457
    Religion:
    Non-theist
    OK, F=GMm/r^2, attractive and along the line between the masses. That *is* the explanation.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Native

    Native Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,042
    Ratings:
    +463
    Religion:
    Natural Perceptions
     
  20. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    18,424
    Ratings:
    +21,457
    Religion:
    Non-theist
    Quotes of quotes are usually not included by the software here.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
Loading...