Not Mature

[lewisnotmiller]

Makes sense to me, it's their child.

Cool. So they should be allowed to abort.

 

[The Hammer]

I could agree about possible achievements of your parents but,
are you not happy to be a live? would you rather be never born? you can't really lie about that.

I wouldn't care one way or the other because I wouldn't be here to care.

Whatever my living feelings are, is of no matter to the decision my mother could and should have made.

I don't want to die now, because I am already here. Had I been aborted, there would be no me to care.

Your play on emotions doesn't work on someone who spent most of their life being emotionally manipulated by others.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You know well when people do something wrong for the first time in their life, the first thing that bothers them is negative emotions such as guilt or shame, exception to this are psychopats due to lack of feelings for others.

You're assuming everyone who gets an abortion is thinking they've done something wrong.

For example, what does person feel when he\she for the first time kills another person?

Probably terrible, depending on the situation.
Terminating a pregnancy isn't the same thing though. And it also depends on the situation.

negative feelings are similar to anything that the person does for the first time, abortion is not an exception.
also ex. we all stole something in our life, but when done for the first time negative feelings do appear, especially if caught in stealing.

I've never stolen anything in my life.

You're trying to make "post-abortion trauma" a phenomenon or something, but there isn't much evidence for it. On the other hand, postpartum depression is a well documented, actual phenomenon.

These negative feeling tell that what what ever you did was wrong.
On another side doing good things never provokes any such feeling, it's rather simple nature, you don't have to be smart to figure this out on your own.

 

[paradox]

wouldn't care one way or the other because I wouldn't be here to care.

Whatever my living feelings are, is of no matter to the decision my mother could and should have made.

I don't want to die now, because I am already here. Had I been aborted, there would be no me to care.

of course, but you do care now, that's the point.
just because fetus or born baby doesn't have an IQ of 90 doesn't mean it wouldn't care to exist or not.

You're assuming everyone who gets an abortion is thinking they've done something wrong.

In shades, most would likely ignore feelings but surely they can't get rid of feelings even if those feeling are there only for 5 minutes.

I've never stolen anything in my life.

not even as a child?

You're trying to make "post-abortion trauma" a phenomenon or something, but there isn't much evidence for it.

No, but I'm sure that complete absence of feelings is unreal for human being.

 

[paradox]

Cool. So they should be allowed to abort.

I mean, if parents want their minor child to abort let them be, it's their child.
rape, conception of a minor, incest or health issue is valid IMO to allow abortion.

But abortion just because somebody wanted to have sex without protection is insane.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I mean, if parents want their minor child to abort let them be, it's their child.
rape, conception of a minor, incest or health issue is valid IMO to allow abortion.

But abortion just because somebody wanted to have sex without protection is insane.

Personally I couldn't imagine aborting. But I don't want to take that choice away from women. My choice (and my wife's) is ours. I think they should also get to choose.

 

[The Hammer]

of course, but you do care now, that's the point.
just because fetus or born baby doesn't have an IQ of 90 doesn't mean it wouldn't care to exist or not

Nope, that may be your point. But I still would have rather been aborted

 

[paradox]

Nope, that may be your point. But I still would have rather been aborted

yeah, I would also rather not exist, life is so tough

 

[SkepticThinker]

of course, but you do care now, that's the point.
just because fetus or born baby doesn't have an IQ of 90 doesn't mean it wouldn't care to exist or not.


In shades, most would likely ignore feelings but surely they can't get rid of feelings even if those feeling are there only for 5 minutes.

Well if the feelings are "There for only 5 minutes" than they did "get rid of feelings."

not even as a child?

Nope, I was way too shy and timid to even think about stealing anything.

No, but I'm sure that complete absence of feelings is unreal for human being.

We're not talking about a "complete absence of feelings."

 

[SkepticThinker]

of course, but you do care now, that's the point.
just because fetus or born baby doesn't have an IQ of 90 doesn't mean it wouldn't care to exist or not.


In shades, most would likely ignore feelings but surely they can't get rid of feelings even if those feeling are there only for 5 minutes.


not even as a child?


No, but I'm sure that complete absence of feelings is unreal for human being.

How about the blastocyst/zygote/fetus not having a brain? It's kinda hard to think without one of those.

 

[paradox]

How about the blastocyst/zygote/fetus not having a brain? It's kinda hard to think without one of those.

maybe, that's why they have us to take care of them, especially mother should take care of their child, that's how nature works.

have you ever seen mother bird when somebody attempts to steal an egg?

 

[paradox]

Well if the feelings are "There for only 5 minutes" than they did "get rid of feelings."

yes but why are there negative feelings at all?
why don't I have negative feelings when doing something good?

Nope, I was way too shy and timid to even think about stealing anything.

you must be very special then, I remember when I stole a battery in a shop, I was 6 yo. and was beaten for this.

We're not talking about a "complete absence of feelings."

yes, my point is that negative feeling do appear naturally when you do something wrong, especially when done for the first time.

 

[SkepticThinker]

maybe, that's why they have us to take care of them, especially mother should take care of their child, that's how nature works.

have you ever seen mother bird when somebody attempts to steal an egg?

Now you're changing the subject.

 

[SkepticThinker]

yes but why are there negative feelings at all?

As I pointed out earlier, you don't know what kinds of feelings every person who has had an abortion has felt. Who says they're all negative?

Having negative feelings "for five minutes" is nothing like experiencing post-partum depression.

why don't I have negative feelings when doing something good?

That's for you to figure out for yourself. Everybody else isn't you.

you must be very special then, I remember when I stole a battery in a shop, I was 6 yo. and was beaten for this.

Not really. I just never felt like I had a right to take things that didn't belong to me. I had good parents.

I don't think beating kids is good parenting either.

yes, my point is that negative feeling do appear naturally when you do something wrong, especially when done for the first time.

You're assuming everyone who has had an abortion feels negatively about it, and implying that everybody feels like they've made the wrong decision.
Well, you don't know that.

 

[paradox]

Now you're changing the subject.

no I did say that lack intellect (or brain) doesn't man that one doesn't care to exist or not:

just because fetus or born baby doesn't have an IQ of 90 doesn't mean it wouldn't care to exist or not.

For example,
fetus can't decide to exist or not because it doesn't have brain
but once it's born and grown up it's happy to be alive.

that's my point.

 

[paradox]

You're assuming everyone who has had an abortion feels negatively about it, and implying that everybody feels like they've made the wrong decision.
Well, you don't know that.

well, there likely could be exceptions, a raped woman who made abortion would surely be happy.

That's for you to figure out for yourself. Everybody else isn't you.

Why don't you figure out on yourself and tell me?
we are talking about something that is common to all people.

 

[SkepticThinker]

no I did say that lack intellect (or brain) doesn't man that one doesn't care to exist or not:

Not having a brain means you can't care. Caring comes from brains.

For example,
fetus can't decide to exist or not because it doesn't have brain
but once it's born and grown up it's happy to be alive.

that's my point.

Huge difference between those two, eh?

So a blastocyst/zygote/fetus doesn't care if it exists or not because it doesn't have a brain that generates that caring feeling. So a blastocyst/zygote/fetus is incapable of caring whether or not it exists.

Obviously a birthed, living, breathing, fully grown human being with a functioning brain can care about it's existence. That person has a brain that can generate feelings of caring.

 

[SkepticThinker]

well, there likely could be exceptions, a raped woman who made abortion would surely be happy.


Why don't you figure out on yourself and tell me?
we are talking about something that is common to all people.

I can't tell you why you "don't have negative feelings when doing something good." That's up to you to figure out.


I sometimes have negative feelings when I exercise because I don't like it, but I know it's good for my health. So there you go.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

You think minors should make life and death decisions? That's a slippery slope.

They are obviously still in the process of learning those things about life, and then, having hopefully gained that knowledge in adulthood, or what of it they can, then I would think that society would deem the person suitably able to create life, and monitor and make decisions about the stages of that creation

Forcing a minor to give birth, on the other hand, I find utterly repulsive. The person giving birth might die if they are too young. If I knew someone who held that view in personal life, I would likely stop talking to that person, to be honest. it seems like something in line with practices from somewhere deep in the medieval age

 

[Heyo]

This is not your honest opinion.

You seem to be under the constant illusion to know the thoughts and feelings of other people better than they themselves. That is very annoying and in more extreme cases known as "gaslighting", a manipulation tactic that is, if not criminal, at least deeply immoral.
If I were to diagnose you, which I won't, I'd say that you are very self centred and can't empathize with people having different views than yourself. That'd be called "narcissistic personality (disorder)".