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Not God but not schizophrenia?

Terry Sampson

Well-Known Member
I am yet to raise the issue with my psychiatrist

Eddi, more than once I've considered recommending something to you to be discussed with your health care professionals, but I hesitated.
Now, I'm going to step out on a limb and suggest something, to be discussed with your health care professionals. I know of two forms of therapy, both involve a professional guiding you into an exploration of your subconscious mind:
  1. Hypnotherapy: A trained hypnotherapist hypnotizes you and guides you on an exploratory trip into your lower-more-important level of awareness.
  2. Interactive Guided Imagery: A trained Interactive Imagery Guide does not hypnotize you but does guide you on an exploratory trip into your lower-more important level of awareness.
The reason I didn't recommend hypnotherapy is because I read, briefly, that hypnotherapy may not be the best approach when working with a schizophrenic. I have not, however, encountered a similar caution regarding Guided Imagery when used with a schizophrenic.

That said, both can be rather expensive, and I don't know whether you have the financial resources necessary to engage either a hypnotherapist or a Guided Imagery therapist. Perhaps your psychiatrist may be of assistance in making future decisions regarding one or the other therapy.

Good luck.
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
Here’s a mental ill health journal entry :confused:

I hope some people will let me know what they think is going on…

(and yes, I am receiving ongoing medical attention and am in the care of mental health professionals! But they only look at my condition from a strictly medical perspective and seek to manage it rather than understand it)

I think I now know what’s wrong with me. Some background:

Since 2004 a being has been communicating with me by touch

I call this entity Butterfly

(I've posted about him on here before)

He says he’s God but I no longer believe him

Because of this I have been diagnosed as schizophrenic although I have never “heard voices” and my medicine hasn’t banished any of my symptoms, as it should

I have always felt this diagnosis to be inadequate

For a number of years I alternated between believing I was Jesus (and mankind’s savior!) and believing the whole world and all people were a computer simulation, in which I was “An Agent of the Simulation” in touch with “The Simulation”, as I called it

I no longer believe in any of that nonsense and am now a committed Christian

I think I now know what Butterfly is: a kind of Tulpa

According to tulpa.info a Tulpa is:

…an entity created in the mind, acting independently of, and parallel to your own consciousness. They are able to think, and have their own free will, emotions, and memories. In short, a tulpa is like a sentient person living in your head, separate from you. It’s currently unproven whether or not tulpas are truly sentient, but in this community, we treat them as such. It takes time for a tulpa to develop a convincing and complex personality; as they grow older, your attention and their life experiences will shape them into a person with their own hopes, dreams and beliefs.

See also: Tulpa - Wikipedia

They are also called "thought forms"

There are many online guides as to how one may cultivate a Tulpa but I believe I created one accidentally (which is possible, apparently) through the use of illegal drugs, music, introspection, and isolation (it’s a long, long story)

And (long, long story short) I believe the Tulpa I accidentally created either A) believes itself to be God, hence it identifies as God or B) knows it isn’t God but is out to make me make a fool of myself. But I’m willing to give it the befit of the doubt and believe that it truly does believe itself to be God and that it’s capacities are perhaps too limited for it to stop believing this

I’ve tried to try and make it more human, by giving it a proper name, a gender and identity etc. but have realized I cannot change it for the better (as you normally can with Tulpas) and it still identifies as God and doesn’t want to change

Do I believe that I have a direct line to God? Not anymore. But I did used to...

...but is there a being independent of me living in my brain that either gets its kicks telling me he’s God or that believes itself to be God? I think so. Such a view is not far off the idea of being possessed by demons, which is what people on this site have told me is wrong with me before.

Perhaps the demons that Christ expelled from people (as described in the Gospels) were some kind of Tulpa, rather than actual demons? We can only speculate.

I have tried casting it out in the name of God but that didn’t work

Conclusion: Not God but not schizophrenia! – a case of possession????

What do people think?

Does this sound likely?

I’d like to know!

Out of curiosity, if you don't mind me asking: How exactly does it communicate with you ? You have said you don't hear voice and that it communicates by touch, what do you mean by that exactly ?
 

Riders

Well-Known Member
I am bipolar and have been in group therapy with schizophrenics before. Both bipolar folks and schizophrenics have to be careful how we handle religion. Being Christian will not keep you from having hallucinations or getting on high highs from religion or believing in fictional Gods.

I knew Christian lady who had the Holy Ghost and when she had a schizophrenic hallucination she thought she was the Holy Ghost. So Christianity doesn't make you immune to the hallucinations.
 

Riders

Well-Known Member
Hi Eddi,

Starting at the most basic level: Do you want Butterfly in your life? Does Butterfly's presence cause any problems, make life more complicated, make it difficult to have relationships with friends, family, co-workers? Most ( if not all ) psychiatric illnesses are diagnosed if they are "in the context of reduced function". So... how do you feel? Are you functional? happy? Do you have goals? Are you achieving those goals?
If OP became a born again Christian, they have more then likely rejected Butterfly.
 

PoetPhilosopher

Veteran Member
I am bipolar and have been in group therapy with schizophrenics before. Both bipolar folks and schizophrenics have to be careful how we handle religion. Being Christian will not keep you from having hallucinations or getting on high highs from religion or believing in fictional Gods.

I knew Christian lady who had the Holy Ghost and when she had a schizophrenic hallucination she thought she was the Holy Ghost. So Christianity doesn't make you immune to the hallucinations.

I'm more or less a theist, but to me, respectfully, religion kind of has ill effects, so I have to be careful to balance it out with a more scholarly way of thinking.
 

Riders

Well-Known Member
I'm more or less a theist, but to me, respectfully, religion kind of has ill effects, so I have to be careful to balance it out with a more scholarly way of thinking.

YESSSSSSSSSS!! I am not going to church anymore even. I am going to start going to philosophy group. I mediate, but meditation is all I do really. Zen meditation so.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
It's My Birthday!
If OP became a born again Christian, they have more then likely rejected Butterfly.

I don't think that Eddi is rejecting Butterfly. See below:

I think I now know what Butterfly is: a kind of Tulpa

According to tulpa.info a Tulpa is:

…an entity created in the mind, acting independently of, and parallel to your own consciousness. They are able to think, and have their own free will, emotions, and memories. In short, a tulpa is like a sentient person living in your head, separate from you. It’s currently unproven whether or not tulpas are truly sentient, but in this community, we treat them as such. It takes time for a tulpa to develop a convincing and complex personality; as they grow older, your attention and their life experiences will shape them into a person with their own hopes, dreams and beliefs.

See also: Tulpa - Wikipedia

They are also called "thought forms"

There are many online guides as to how one may cultivate a Tulpa but I believe I created one accidentally
My question is: does Butterfly need to be rejected at all?
 

Riders

Well-Known Member
I don't think that Eddi is rejecting Butterfly. See below:


My question is: does Butterfly need to be rejected at all?

Here is the quot
Since 2004 a being has been communicating with me by touch

I call this entity Butterfly

(I've posted about him on here before)

He says he’s God but I no longer believe him


So I don't believe he's communicating with Butterfly. Christians would call it a demon.
 

Eddi

Agnostic
Premium Member
Out of curiosity, if you don't mind me asking: How exactly does it communicate with you ? You have said you don't hear voice and that it communicates by touch, what do you mean by that exactly ?
I don't mind talking about it

It responds to my inner voice by giving me a sensation of touch on my body - it feels like a light, gentle touch

Where he touches means different things

We have a system, but basically, touching the left of my head means "yes" and touching the right means "no"
 

Eddi

Agnostic
Premium Member
If OP became a born again Christian, they have more then likely rejected Butterfly.
For the record, I have rejected him

I no longer let him guide my thoughts

But he's still there

Like a guest who's massively outstayed his welcome

All I can do really is ignore him
 

Eddi

Agnostic
Premium Member
Here is the quot
Since 2004 a being has been communicating with me by touch

I call this entity Butterfly

(I've posted about him on here before)

He says he’s God but I no longer believe him


So I don't believe he's communicating with Butterfly. Christians would call it a demon.
Yes - Christians would call it a demon

None of the people at my church know about my illness

But if I ever have to explain my issues to them I would now say that I am possessed

They might think that somewhat medieval...

But the bible is full of cases of demonic possession!
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
I don't mind talking about it

It responds to my inner voice by giving me a sensation of touch on my body - it feels like a light, gentle touch

Where he touches means different things

We have a system, but basically, touching the left of my head means "yes" and touching the right means "no"

How do you know what each touch means ? Do you feel what it means ?
 

Eddi

Agnostic
Premium Member
My question is: does Butterfly need to be rejected at all?
If by "rejected" you mean ignored and given no say in how I live my life and what I believe in then I'd say yes, it does need to be rejected

Look at what happened when I listened to it when it affirmed I was Jesus...

I'd say that all in all, it's a bad influence on me and doesn't have my best interests at heart

I think it is quite mischievous but not entirely malevolent

Perhaps it is a punishment of some kind?

Although I can't imagine what sin would deserve having a being live in your mind as punishment, it sounds rather severe to me
 
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Eddi

Agnostic
Premium Member
How do you know what each touch means ? Do you feel what it means ?
What happens is, I say something in my mind that I direct at it, such as "Are you God?"

It then responds:

What part of the body it touches means different things, so I don't feel what it means - instead I know what it means by what part of my body it touches in response to my question

So if it wanted to strongly affirm something as a very strong "Yes" it would give a certain sense of pressure on the left of my head, above my eye: "Yes" would be signified by the location of the touch on my body

If it wanted to say "no" to something I asked it it would place a similar sensation on the right of my head

Does this help?
 
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dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
It's My Birthday!
If by "rejected" you mean ignored and given no say in how I live my life and what I believe in then I'd say yes, it does need to be rejected

Look at what happened when I listened to it when it affirmed I was Jesus...

I'd say that all in all, it's a bad influence on me and doesn't have my best interests at heart

I think it is quite mischievous but not entirely malevolent

Perhaps it is a punishment of some kind?

Although I can't imagine what sin would deserve having a being live in your mind as punishment, it sounds rather severe to me
Thank you for this. I didn't want to assume that Butterfly is a bad influence.

Have you tried getting some therapy in addition to medication? A good therapist with a diverse background might be really helpful for you.
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
What happens is, I say something in my mind that I direct at it, such as "Are you God?"

It then responds:

What part of the body it touches means different things, so I don't feel what it means - instead I know what it means by what part of my body it touches in response to my question

So if it wanted to strongly affirm something as a very strong "Yes" it would give a certain sense of pressure on the left of my head, above my eye: "Yes" would be signified by the location of the touch on my body

If it wanted to say "no" to something I asked it it would place a similar sensation on the right of my head

Does this help?

Let me rephrase my question: How did you determine what touching each body part means ?

To use your example: How did you figure that touching the left side of your head means a 'Yes' rather than a 'No' ?
 

Eddi

Agnostic
Premium Member
Let me rephrase my question: How did you determine what touching each body part means ?

To use your example: How did you figure that touching the left side of your head means a 'Yes' rather than a 'No' ?
I can't remember the first time we worked it out but it would have happened something like this:

Me: Are you God?

Butterfly: LEFT

Me: Does that mean yes?

Butterfly: LEFT

Me: What means no?

Butterfly: RIGHT

Me: So left is yes and right is no?

Butterfly: LEFT

Me: Are you God?

Butterfly: LEFT

And so on from there - this has been going on since 2004

Also, before we worked out this system it made a sensation on the left of my head when someone said something positive, and a sensation on the right when they said something negative, although it wouldn't communicate with me until later

I hope this helps?
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
I can't remember the first time we worked it out but it would have happened something like this:

Me: Are you God?

Butterfly: LEFT

Me: Does that mean yes?

Butterfly: LEFT

Me: What means no?

Butterfly: RIGHT

Me: So left is yes and right is no?

Butterfly: LEFT

Me: Are you God?

Butterfly: LEFT

And so on from there - this has been going on since 2004

Also, before we worked out this system it made a sensation on the left of my head when someone said something positive, and a sensation on the right when they said something negative, although it wouldn't communicate with me until later

I hope this helps?

I see! Yes, it does.

If you focus, can you reproduce the same sensation on your body all by yourself ? Or is it able to do something you can't ordinarily do ?
 

Eddi

Agnostic
Premium Member
I see! Yes, it does.

If you focus, can you reproduce the same sensation on your body all by yourself ? Or is it able to do something you can't ordinarily do ?
No, I can't reproduce those sensations myself

Only Butterfly can cause them
 
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