Non-Christians enter into the Kingdom?

[Shaul]

I would like to get opinions on how to interpret the Christian New Testament passage of Matthew 25:31-46. This is the parable of the sheep and goats. Here is a NIV copy of the text:

When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, He will sit on His glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate the people one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will place the sheep on His right and the goats on His left. Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave Me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me something to drink, I was a stranger and you took Me in, I was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you looked after Me, I was in prison and you visited Me.’Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You something to drink? When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? When did we see You sick or in prison and visit You?’And the King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of Mine, you did for Me.’Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave Me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, I was naked and you did not clothe Me, I was sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’And they too will reply, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You? ’Then the King will answer, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for Me.’ And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

The parable shows that on judgment day the people will be sorted and learn their fates. I notice the following. First the basis of the sorting is not based on any belief about who Jesus is. Rather it appears instead that the basis will be one of how charitable people are to one another. Which implies charity is more important than faith.

I would like to hear an exegesis of this parable from Christians or others. In particular as to whether this parable indicates that non-Christians have a portion in the world to come.

 

[Brian2]

I read it as you do.
The New Testament does teach that love is more important than faith
For a Christian however we believe and repent and our faith works through love, we show our faith through our works. But it is our faith (real faith and not just a head belief) that brings us the forgiveness that God offers through Jesus, so that we do not need to go through the judgement of Matt 25:31-46.

 

[Estro Felino]

Love saves us.
Because we are all sinners, Christians and non-Christians.
But love makes the difference. So even non-Christians are saved.

 

[Estro Felino]

I read it as you do.
The New Testament does teach that love is more important than faith
For a Christian however we believe and repent and our faith works through love, we show our faith through our works. But it is our faith (real faith and not just a head belief) that brings us the forgiveness that God offers through Jesus, so that we do not need to go through the judgement of Matt 25:31-46.

The Gospel says that angels shall come forth and sever the wicked from among the just.
It doesn't say "sever the non-Christians from among the Christians".

The just is not "Christians" because there are countless Christians who are wicked.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Well sheep and goats have different functions. There has to be a reason that humankind took to the husbandry of goats. I don't know what those specific reasons are, and how they'd transfer into metaphors, but they are probably there, nonetheless. Also look at my thread on the enchiridion, for an ancient philospher's use of a sheep metaphor. I guess they were considered as productive animals in a variety of ways

 

[lukethethird]

I can't imagine anything more horrifying than a Christian kingdom.

 

[We Never Know]

Love saves us.
Because we are all sinners, Christians and non-Christians.
But love makes the difference. So even non-Christians are saved.

What is the love that saves?
Love of what?

 

[Estro Felino]

What is the love that saves?
Love of what?

Love in your heart.
The desire of justice.
Altruism.

 

[Sirona]

Well sheep and goats have different functions. There has to be a reason that humankind took to the husbandry of goats. I don't know what those specific reasons are, and how they'd transfer into metaphors, but they are probably there, nonetheless. Also look at my thread on the enchiridion, for an ancient philospher's use of a sheep metaphor. I guess they were considered as productive animals in a variety of ways

I'm no expert on farming, but sheep are probably meek and complying, while goats tend to be more robust but also stubborn. Moreover, the goat has become an archetypical symbol of Satan (Baphomet - Wikipedia).

 

[We Never Know]

Well sheep and goats have different functions. There has to be a reason that humankind took to the husbandry of goats. I don't know what those specific reasons are, and how they'd transfer into metaphors, but they are probably there, nonetheless. Also look at my thread on the enchiridion, for an ancient philospher's use of a sheep metaphor. I guess they were considered as productive animals in a variety of ways

"husbandry of goats"

What does that mean exactly?

 

[Brian2]

The Gospel says that angels shall come forth and sever the wicked from among the just.
It doesn't say "sever the non-Christians from among the Christians".

The just is not "Christians" because there are countless Christians who are wicked.

Matt 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Yes there will be false disciples whom Jesus will reject as evildoers.

 

[Brian2]

I can't imagine anything more horrifying than a Christian kingdom.

I can and I don't want to be there. But if you look into the history of theocracies they are not pure Christian Kingdoms with Jesus as King.

 

[We Never Know]

The Gospel says that angels shall come forth and sever the wicked from among the just.
It doesn't say "sever the non-Christians from among the Christians".

The just is not "Christians" because there are countless Christians who are wicked.

Which angels?

9 types of angels....

1. Seraphim
2. Cherubim (Plural of Cherub)
3. Thrones
4. Dominions or Dominations
5. Virtues
6. Powers
7. Principalities
8. Archangels
9. Angels

 

[Brian2]

"husbandry of goats"

What does that mean exactly?

 

[Mock Turtle]

 

[Estro Felino]

Which angels?

9 types of angels....

1. Seraphim
2. Cherubim (Plural of Cherub)
3. Thrones
4. Dominions or Dominations
5. Virtues
6. Powers
7. Principalities
8. Archangels
9. Angels

In my opinion, the second angelic hierarchy (Powers-Virtues-Dominions).
I don't know what angels.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I would like to get opinions on how to interpret the Christian New Testament passage of Matthew 25:31-46. This is the parable of the sheep and goats. Here is a NIV copy of the text:

It is an argument for catholicism or for The Way. In this passage in Matthew Jesus is not referring to financial poverty but to the poverty of those without Moses wisdom. He's saying that the Jews should share their fellowship with non Jews. You can see this if you refer back to chapter 5 where he preaches about the poor in spirit, and in that he is praising a humble Jewish way of life and calling the Jews the "Salt of the earth" and saying that unless you salt the earth with your own lives that there is no point in your being. He says you are the light of the world and must let your light shine.

Is it an argument for assimilation? I am not sure. A lot of things he says are a little difficult. He says a lot of things which seem addressed to his crowd of Jewish people. He often calls very difficult things 'Easy': "Blessed are you when people insult you...because of me." (5:11)

If Christians then step into the story as his listeners then a lot of it still makes sense, however it is a little different. Its always been difficult reading...all of the NT has.

 

[Frank Goad]

I would like to get opinions on how to interpret the Christian New Testament passage of Matthew 25:31-46. This is the parable of the sheep and goats. Here is a NIV copy of the text:

When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, He will sit on His glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate the people one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will place the sheep on His right and the goats on His left. Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave Me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me something to drink, I was a stranger and you took Me in, I was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you looked after Me, I was in prison and you visited Me.’Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You something to drink? When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? When did we see You sick or in prison and visit You?’And the King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of Mine, you did for Me.’Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave Me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, I was naked and you did not clothe Me, I was sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’And they too will reply, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You? ’Then the King will answer, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for Me.’ And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

The parable shows that on judgment day the people will be sorted and learn their fates. I notice the following. First the basis of the sorting is not based on any belief about who Jesus is. Rather it appears instead that the basis will be one of how charitable people are to one another. Which implies charity is more important than faith.

I would like to hear an exegesis of this parable from Christians or others. In particular as to whether this parable indicates that non-Christians have a portion in the world to come.

If you go into this website: SAB: 1 Corinthians 13

And go all the way down the websites webpage.Note 4 seems to be saying that charity(good works)is better then faith and hope.This seems to agree with what your saying.

 

[Frank Goad]

I would like to get opinions on how to interpret the Christian New Testament passage of Matthew 25:31-46. This is the parable of the sheep and goats. Here is a NIV copy of the text:

When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, He will sit on His glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate the people one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will place the sheep on His right and the goats on His left. Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave Me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me something to drink, I was a stranger and you took Me in, I was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you looked after Me, I was in prison and you visited Me.’Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You something to drink? When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? When did we see You sick or in prison and visit You?’And the King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of Mine, you did for Me.’Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave Me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, I was naked and you did not clothe Me, I was sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’And they too will reply, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You? ’Then the King will answer, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for Me.’ And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

The parable shows that on judgment day the people will be sorted and learn their fates. I notice the following. First the basis of the sorting is not based on any belief about who Jesus is. Rather it appears instead that the basis will be one of how charitable people are to one another. Which implies charity is more important than faith.

I would like to hear an exegesis of this parable from Christians or others. In particular as to whether this parable indicates that non-Christians have a portion in the world to come.

If you go into this website: SAB: 1 Corinthians 13

And go all the way down the websites webpage.Note 4 seems to be saying that charity(good works)is better then faith and hope.This seems to agree with what your saying.

In John 5:29.It looks like it has people being rewarded for being good people.Or at lest that is how I read it.I thought it looked like it was talking about the same things quoted above.

 

[pearl]

From the explanatory notes, NABRE

* [25:31–46] The conclusion of the discourse, which is peculiar to Matthew, portrays the final judgment that will accompany the parousia. Although often called a “parable,” it is not really such, for the only parabolic elements are the depiction of the Son of Man as a shepherd and of the righteous and the wicked as sheep and goats respectively (Mt 25:32–33). The criterion of judgment will be the deeds of mercy that have been done for the least of Jesus’ brothers (Mt 25:40). A difficult and important question is the identification of these least brothers. Are they all people who have suffered hunger, thirst, etc. (Mt 25:35, 36) or a particular group of such sufferers? Scholars are divided in their response and arguments can be made for either side. But leaving aside the problem of what the traditional material that Matthew edited may have meant, it seems that a stronger case can be made for the view that in the evangelist’s sense the sufferers are Christians, probably Christian missionaries whose sufferings were brought upon them by their preaching of the gospel. The criterion of judgment for all the nations is their treatment of those who have borne to the world the message of Jesus, and this means ultimately their acceptance or rejection of Jesus himself; cf. Mt 10:40, “Whoever receives you, receives me.” See note on Mt 16:27.