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'No Such Thing' As Facts Anymore

beenherebeforeagain

beenherebeforeagain

Rogue Animist
Premium Member
fantome profane said:
Trump Surrogate's Jaw-Dropping Claim: 'No Such Thing' As Facts Anymore <-- Link
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/scottie-nell-hughes-there-are-no-more-facts

Is that a fact? Is it a fact that there are no such things as facts?

Can a society function in a fact-free environment? Can a government govern without facts? Do we care about facts anymore? And if not, how does this work?
Click to expand...
This is EXACTLY what George Orwell repeatedly talked about in his essays and novels: propaganda and public relations...
All politicians and political parties have always used these tools of rhetoric to confuse and (mis)lead the masses.

Individuals may care about the facts, but the fact is, if you can get support for your policies by lying, misdirection, obfuscation, redefining terms, and so on, then by all means do so...because power is all that matters, to some people...
 
Shadow Wolf

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
GodsVoice said:
There's no such thing is a real object in the simulation program we're involved in. Physicists have proven that with quantum mechanics.
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Quantum mechanics have not proven we are in some sort Matrix programing. They have demonstrated the fundamental nature of reality behaves in ways we never realized before, but science has not proven we live in a simulation or that things are not real.
GodsVoice said:
Is that someone else going to believe the accident as a "fact"?
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What this person believes has no influence over rather or not the accident happened. It either happened, or it didn't. I just drank a bottle of water. It doesn't matter what your believe. You can believe that I did not drink water, and instead drank something else or nothing at all, but that does not change the fact that I did drink a bottle of water. I fell asleep sometime last night while I was in the early stages of working on a drawing a picture. I don't know what time this happened. I can believe it happened at 10 PM or 2 AM, but it doesn't change the fact that there was a certain point, given by our methods of measuring time, when I fell asleep, and my belief does not change when this event happened.
 
GodsVoice

GodsVoice

Active Member
Shadow Wolf said:
Quantum mechanics have not proven we are in some sort Matrix programing. They have demonstrated the fundamental nature of reality behaves in ways we never realized before, but science has not proven we live in a simulation or that things are not real.

What this person believes has no influence over rather or not the accident happened. It either happened, or it didn't. I just drank a bottle of water. It doesn't matter what your believe. You can believe that I did not drink water, and instead drank something else or nothing at all, but that does not change the fact that I did drink a bottle of water. I fell asleep sometime last night while I was in the early stages of working on a drawing a picture. I don't know what time this happened. I can believe it happened at 10 PM or 2 AM, but it doesn't change the fact that there was a certain point, given by our methods of measuring time, when I fell asleep, and my belief does not change when this event happened.
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What you were observing was an illusion that cannot be stopped and proven to be true. Not even a picture of your drinking that bottle of water is proof for me that it is a fact because the computers we have today and programs we use can easily manipulate that pic and make me believe that it's you drinking that bottle of water.

I know that quantum mechanics is not proof that we're living in the computer generated simulation program that we are a part of. The AI and voice of the program that I have been listening to and obeying for 37 years was my teacher. I didn't learn anything from religious people or scientists about living in a computer program. The program taught me.
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
A "fact" can be different things.....
- A strongly held opinion which is widely believed but of dubious objectivity, eg, Donald Trump is a liar, Hillary is caring, the 2008 financial crisis was due to deregulation.
- An objectively verifiable statement, eg, the Earth revolves around the Sun, viruses can transfer genes to a host.
- A belief which is entirely unverifiable, eg, Allah is God.
- A belief which is entirely due to personal perspective, eg, bacon is tasty.
- A "factoid", which is an oft repeated statement believed to be fact, but is demonstrably wrong, eg, Ayn Rand "worshipped" a child murderer. (Alternet loves this one.)
- A "factoid" which is an oft repeated statement which is believed false, but is just too much fun to abandon, eg, Al Gore invented the internet.

So I don't trust "facts".
But with some verification, they can be useful.
 
Guy Threepwood

Guy Threepwood

Mighty Pirate
fantome profane said:
Trump Surrogate's Jaw-Dropping Claim: 'No Such Thing' As Facts Anymore <-- Link
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/scottie-nell-hughes-there-are-no-more-facts

Is that a fact? Is it a fact that there are no such things as facts?

Can a society function in a fact-free environment? Can a government govern without facts? Do we care about facts anymore? And if not, how does this work?
Click to expand...

There are few things more subjective than facts, I think it's better to recognize a 'fact' for what it is in practice, a label used in lieu of self evidence.
 
Guy Threepwood

Guy Threepwood

Mighty Pirate
BSM1 said:
This is not a "fact". A fact is something that can be proven no matter how you "feel" about it or how many people believe or disbelieve it's existence. What you have described about the earth warming up (globally) is not a fact; it is speculation that borders on myth.
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True ;

Global warming:- speculation at best, it's difficult to even pin down what 'global warming' 'climate change?' is even supposed to mean
China having a vested economic interest in global warming policy: About as utterly unambiguous as 'facts' can possbily get
 
Sunstone

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Facts are those things that confuse idiots and make their lives complicated.
 
BSM1

BSM1

What? Me worry?
Iti oj said:
So all the data that suggest otherwise is what?
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I believe you just said better than I: suggestion.


.
GodsVoice said:
That's only what the observers think happened in their minds. What if that observer who thinks he saw the accident tells his subjective experience of that accident to someone else ten years later? Is that someone else going to believe the accident as a "fact"?
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Still doesn't change the "fact' that in that given moment in time an accident happened. This fact can be verified by photographs, reports, and possibly the damaged cars if they were hauled off to a junk yard.
 
GodsVoice

GodsVoice

Active Member
BSM1 said:
I believe you just said better than I: suggestion.


.


Still doesn't change the "fact' that in that given moment in time an accident happened. This fact can be verified by photographs, reports, and possibly the damaged cars if they were hauled off to a junk yard.
Click to expand...

Some people cannot think very deeply so it will be impossible for you to understand that there is no real evidence to prove anything happened in the minds of men. Why do you think some people believe the earth is flat? Do they have any evidence to support their claim? Of course they do and if you believe that evidence, then you can become a "flat earth" believer.
 
BSM1

BSM1

What? Me worry?
GodsVoice said:
Some people cannot think very deeply so it will be impossible for you to understand that there is no real evidence to prove anything happened in the minds of men. Why do you think some people believe the earth is flat? Do they have any evidence to support their claim? Of course they do and if you believe that evidence, then you can become a "flat earth" believer.
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I understand and embrace the illusion of life, but the fact of the matter seems to be that you are resorting to hyperbole to support your position. Also, evidence has to be demonstrable and concrete to determine facts. Thoughts and beliefs are never facts.
 
GodsVoice

GodsVoice

Active Member
BSM1 said:
I understand and embrace the illusion of life, but the fact of the matter seems to be that you are resorting to hyperbole to support your position. Also, evidence has to be demonstrable and concrete to determine facts. Thoughts and beliefs are never facts.
Click to expand...

All the visible images are only illusions that decay and are destroyed. They are not tangible evidence to hold up as a fact.
 
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