No one should believe in evolution!

[Audie]

Then lets see your math.

How about please, let's not?

 

[Baroodi]

Then lets see your math.

My math was already demonstrated in tiny part of Quran 3 events together
a hint to the atomic weight of Iron Fe 57, No of electrons, Iron as the main component of the globe core as hinted bt placing the Iron chapter in the middle of Quran chapters. do you think this can happen by chance?

 

[Baroodi]

What are muslim’s position on astrology, fortune telling and palmistry (and other divination, eg oracle, crystal ball, etc), witchcraft and sorcery, alchemy, Baroodi?

I asked, because all these falls under the category of occultism, and that’s including numerology.

How is Islam, any different to pagan religions that also used numerology?

Very good

Fortune telling is against Islam, it is part of polytheism. No one can know what will happen tomorrow except God. Any one who pretend he has this quality he is out of Islam

 

[Baroodi]

No, you can literally do this with *any* text that is sufficiently long if you search enough and twist enough.

A good test: if you didn't know what to search for, would the message still be clear? if not, you are reading your desires into the text.

This is blind generalization, give examples please as I gave you

 

[Baroodi]

You posted:

Now as indicated by science
Iron Atomic weight is 57
Iron electrons are 26​

You claimed iron was mentioned in 57:26

Now I find iron is mentioned in 57:25

And We sent down iron, wherein is great military might​

... not in 57:26

As you stated there are 26 electrons in an iron atom.

You specifically stated the words from 57:25 and you specifically stated they were from 57:26.

​

So, you lied when you made the comment above. Were you hoping no one would check? Well, I did.
Also, it's ...

And We sent down iron, wherein is great military might​

not ...

We descended the Iron, Which has so much strength in it​

When I called you out, you tried a silly attempt at dodging...

​

Yeah, it is the verse above 26. It's verse 25. So your whole original comment about the knowledge in the quran and atomic weights was all a flat out lie on your part. The only other alternative is that your Messenger wrote down the wrong verse numbers when allah was dictating the quran. Maybe he was dehydrated from being out in the desert too long.

Actually, if you want to preserve any dignity, just admit you intentionally lied and slink away quietly.

I already replied to this, but may be you didn't see it or you ignored it. You are free to reject it but you can have a moment to think about it. Many atheists ( and the list is long) made a U turn to Islam because of such signs, Gary Miller is one example.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I already replied to this, but may be you didn't see it or you ignored it. You are free to reject it but you can have a moment to think about it. Many atheists ( and the list is long) made a U turn to Islam because of such signs, Gary Miller is one example.

Gary Miller was a Christian missionary, not an atheist. He was as confused as you are.

 

[Baroodi]

Except they aren't happening by "chance". The people who believe in numerology already know what conclusions they want to confirm, and it's not difficult to search any piece of text of any kind to find various numbers, ascribe to those numbers a specific meaning, then tell people what you want it all to mean. Almost every major religion has adherents who can use numerology to "demonstrate" that their texts (which often conflict with each other) are uniquely divinely inspired.

Biblical numerology - Wikipedia
Introduction to Gematria – Hebrew Numerology
Tarot and Numerology—Interpreting the meaning of numbers in your Tarot cards | Biddy Tarot
Hinduism and Numerology
Buddhist numerology

Muslims acknowledge the revelations to Ibraham and Moses (Thurat), David (psalm book), Jesus (the Bible) in addition to Quran which we believe is the dominant book which remained prestine. All others are non existent or badly fabricated. All current bibles are man written but we can expect traces from the divine subject passed on anecdotally.
compare the miracles of Number in Quran to the others and see how it is amazing

 

[Baroodi]

Gary Miller was a Christian missionary, not an atheist. He was as confused as you are.

You are right
I was confused. I want to quote Dr Laurence Brown.
Thanks, you are up-to-date
Garry Miller was a Church man, he studied Quran to criticize it but amazingly he converted to Islam

 

[ecco]

My math was already demonstrated in tiny part of Quran 3 events together
a hint to the atomic weight of Iron Fe 57, No of electrons, Iron as the main component of the globe core as hinted bt placing the Iron chapter in the middle of Quran chapters. do you think this can happen by chance?

Among the chapters of Quran Elhadeed is Number 57. The verse in which the word iron mentioned is verse No 26, this verse says (We descended the Iron, Which has so much strength in it) 57:26

Now as indicated by science
Iron Atomic weight is 57
Iron electrons are 26

Iron is referenced in 57:25, not 57:26.

 

[Polymath257]

This is blind generalization, give examples please as I gave you

Knowledge of atoms was seen in Lucretius, who made many arguments similar to the modern ones to establish the existence and behavior of atoms.

Knowledge of embryos comes from Galen, who described the anatomy of the body and steps in pregnancy.

Conjectures about the nature of the universe were common after Thales.

As for using any book. There was a study done using the book 'Moby Dick' and numerology and came up with the same sorts of coincidences that those promoting the Bible or Koran promote. It is literally *always* possible to read into almost any long text whatever you want, especially if you wan tto take things as being metaphor or analogies.

 

[ecco]

I already replied to this, but may be you didn't see it or you ignored it.

Here was you reply:

It is the verse just above the one you quoted.

I agree, the verse above 57:26 is 57:25. I was glad to see you admit your mistake. Now, however, you are continuing to try to claim that 57:25 means 57:26. It doesn't.

You are free to reject it but you can have a moment to think about it. Many atheists ( and the list is long) made a U turn to Islam because of such signs, Gary Miller is one example.

Following is a partial list of Muslims who turned to atheism...

Part of an unorganized religion or no religion[edit]
Became atheists[edit]
Main article: List of converts to nontheism from Islam

Javed Akhtar is a noted Indian writer and lyricist.

Sarah Haider, cofounder of Ex-Muslims of North America.

Maryam Namazie, cofounder of the Council of Ex-Muslims of Britain.
" style="position: relative; margin-right: auto; margin-left: auto; width: 220px;">

Armin Navabi, founder of Atheist Republic, about leaving Islam.

Salman Rushdie, author of The Satanic Verses.[245]

• Alexander Aan – Indonesian atheist and ex-Muslim of Minang descent, who was attacked by an mob and arrested in 2012 for posting "God does not exist" and other antireligious writings on Facebook, attracting international attention.[246]
• Hamed Abdel-Samad – German-Egyptian political scientist, historian and author.
• Zackie Achmat – South African anti-HIV/AIDS activist; founder of the Treatment Action Campaign.[247]
• Ismael Adham – Egyptian writer and philosopher.[248]
• Bonya Ahmed – Bangladeshi-American author, humanist activist and blogger, wife of Avijit Roy; they were victims of a terrorist attack by Islamists.[249]
• Javed Akhtar – noted Indian writer and lyricist.[250]
• Mirza Fatali Akhundov – 19th century Azerbaijani playwright and philosopher.[251]
• Faisal Saeed Al Mutar – Iraqi-born satirist, human rights activist, writer, founder of the Global Secular Humanist Movement (GSHM).[252]
• Waleed Al-Husseini – Palestinian philosopher, essayist, writer, blogger and co-founder of Council of Ex-Muslims in France (fr) (CEMF).
• Bisi Alimi – Nigerian gay rights activist based in the United Kingdom

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

My math was already demonstrated in tiny part of Quran 3 events together
a hint to the atomic weight of Iron Fe 57, No of electrons, Iron as the main component of the globe core as hinted bt placing the Iron chapter in the middle of Quran chapters. do you think this can happen by chance?

Math has equations and numbers. Where are they?

 

[Milton Platt]

I am of the firm opinion that no one should ever believe in evolution. Belief is based of placing faith in something. Evolution is a scientific theory. No should ever accept a scientific theory by faith. One can believe in many things properly, such as the innate value of people, or that your favorite sports team is the greatest. But scientific theories aren’t like those. Scientific theories can be accepted as correct, or assented to, or tested and verified, or a host of other empirical and scientific actions. But to believe in a scientific theory is an oxymoron.

Whenever I encounter someone that says they believe in evolution I roll my eyes metaphorically and think to myself that here is someone that lacks a genuine understanding of evolution and science.

I will now don my asbestos suit and await comments.

Belief should be meted out in proportion to the evidence available to support the claim. Evolution has close to 200 years of accumulated data to support the theory. It is the underpinning of modern biology and zoology. There is no version of theology that has any such factual underpinnings.

 

[Thaif]

You are completely ignorant as to what science say.

You say that but I like to think that when people post stuff to me citing my ignorance that I go through any links and citations and try to understand what the research is trying to justify, even to the point of going to the actual physical library and failing that, purchasing material on-line. I think judging me as completely ignorant is a little unfair, but hey, this one is your call. Maybe your are correct, I am after, not a scientist unlike your esteemed self.

Scientists who have hypotheses that life were started by extraterrestrial, they weren’t talking about UFO or alien civilisation.

Sorry, I don't understand this sentence.

The people who do research on Abiogenesis where life started on Earth, trying to do experiments to recreate the condition of early Earth history, to make amino acid. (For instance, the Miller–Urey experiment, performed in the early 1950s.) The chemical compounds of certain chains of amino acids (there are many different types of amino acids) are what protein made out of. Proteins are one of major components required for life, as well as carbohydrates and nucleic acids (eg DNA & RNA); these three biological compounds are what biologists and biochemists called living matters. Those scientists propositioning hypotheses that life could have started extraterrestrial origin, are not so wild at all.

I understand what these scientists are trying to say and I have, in fact read up on most of the Miller-Urey and associated findings. A point here is that yes, amino acids can be produced under certain circumstances and yes, more than the 20 basic amino acids required for the genetic code were produced by Stanley and Harold's experiments, keep in mind that these experiments were produced in sterile lab environment and while they produced a component required by life as we know it, it was, a just a a series of amino acids, not life. You mention as a component of life being carbohydrates, you realise of course that you need life in the first place to produce carbohydrates as well as nucleic acids. Unlike me, you do research of course so I'll assume you are generalising here.

They are talking about amino acids found in meteorites and comets that have crashed to Earth.
A large meteorite, called Murchison meteorite, broke up in the sky and crashed in several places not far from small Australian town called Murchison. Collecting all the pieces of meteorite is that have a total mass of just over 100 kilograms. What scientists discovered upon the meteorite was over 90 different types of amino acids. Asteroids and meteorites in space are debris from previous nearby supernovas. And these debris are old as the solar system. They are composed of different types of metals and minerals. But the existence of amino acids in meteorites tell us that these can survive in the harsh environment of space and be preserved in the meteorite. During the early Earth history, the Earth was bombarded frequently by comet and meteorites. The possibility that some of these meteorites and comets might contain amino acids, are very high.

And equally, as said, having a thing needed to produce life as we know it, does not necessarily produce life. Amino acids are not a life form, they are an ingredient, the same as water and sunlight, which we see as a needed requirement for life as life in the way we understand it.

Like I said before extra-terrestrial origin don’t mean your strawman claim of “space alien people”. They are talking about amino acids found in meteorites, not extra-terrestrial people.

Not a strawman in the case of Abiogenesis and my argument. This process would assume that the unproven "science" in question is repeatable and provable and is entirely relevant to the subject, which it at this stage is not. I really hate it when people try bringing up a strawman accusation when there is no need.

You would know this if bothered to a little reading and research, instead making up nonsense about “space alien people”.

Okay, I'm not a scientist but accusing me of not doing and research is as much nonsense as your provocative post. I mention "space alien people" (Did I use that term, I haven't even re-read my own post ) Only to point out that I don't think they exist.

And the discovery of these amino acids in the Murchison meteorite is just one evidence of many evidences supporting the extra-terrestrial origin. So it isn’t “zero evidence” as you’ve claimed.

It is zero evidence, you can show that a building block of life is in a meteor and I can point at the sun say that is equally a requirement of life.

And the discovery of these amino acids in the Murchison meteorite is just one evidence of many evidences supporting the extra-terrestrial origin. So it isn’t “zero evidence” as you’ve claimed.

What are these other evidences you speak of?
Man, I've just come back from a vacation to this...
I've read a few of your posts before and I really hoped this would be an interesting read, try harder mate, maybe broaden your reading away from Wiki and Quora?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

My math was already demonstrated in tiny part of Quran 3 events together
a hint to the atomic weight of Iron Fe 57, No of electrons, Iron as the main component of the globe core as hinted bt placing the Iron chapter in the middle of Quran chapters. do you think this can happen by chance?

Absolutely.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Those scientists propositioning hypotheses that life could have started extraterrestrial origin, are not so wild at all.

Personally, I find the idea wildly fascinating. That life developed elsewhere in the universe, survived space, crash landed here and here we are today. If it could be proven true, that we started somewhere else and got here, and answer one question that suddenly lost significance in the light of a thousand questions to come.

 

[gnostic]

Very good

Fortune telling is against Islam, it is part of polytheism. No one can know what will happen tomorrow except God. Any one who pretend he has this quality he is out of Islam

But I find that divine revelation, prophecies and miracles equally problematic.

And I have seen Muslims, recently here, and in the past, using numerology, playing the number games with verses in the Qur’an.

Numerology, like astrology, is occult in nature.

Numerology is no more maths, than astrology with astronomy.

 

[gnostic]

And equally, as said, having a thing needed to produce life as we know it, does not necessarily produce life. Amino acids are not a life form, they are an ingredient, the same as water and sunlight, which we see as a needed requirement for life as life in the way we understand it.

I didn’t say that amino acids are life form, I have said that they are building block of living matters.

Living matters, not life form.

Proteins are living matters, and it is made of specific types of amino acids.

If you remove the amino acids from the proteins, then proteins wouldn’t exist.

 

[gnostic]

Personally, I find the idea wildly fascinating. That life developed elsewhere in the universe, survived space, crash landed here and here we are today. If it could be proven true, that we started somewhere else and got here, and answer one question that suddenly lost significance in the light of a thousand questions to come.

Biochemists are still undecided on whether the amino acids already exist on earth, or whether they came from meteorites or comets.

The evidences for both are here and now, but whether the ultimate origin of amino was terrestrial or extraterrestrial, we may never know.

 

[gnostic]

It is zero evidence, you can show that a building block of life is in a meteor and I can point at the sun say that is equally a requirement of life.

That amino acids were found in the meteorite, is not “zero evidence”, Thaif.

If they didn’t find amino acids in the Murchison meteorite, then I would agree with you about there being no evidence.

There are 70 different types of amino acids found in Murchison meteorite. Of those found in the meteorite, 15 amino acids in the meteorite, are what occurred naturally on earth.

As to whether amino acids originally come from the Earth itself, or from meteorites that crashed on Earth, we don’t know.

No ones know yet. And since amino acids can be found on meteorites, survive and exist after crashing, then I don’t see how you can deny it isn’t probable.

The amino acids are just one several probabilities.

I am not ignoring either probabilities (terrestrial or extraterrestrial origin), until there are more evidences to tip the scale, so I am open-minded about both scenarios.