New Zealand Recognizes Animals as Sentient

[Twilight Hue]

It's nice it has been acknowledged but it is only a statement of the obvious. "This being has a central nervous system, do we think it might be sentient? Gosh that's a tough one."
What will the practical effects in NZ society be? I'm guessing sheep farming isn't about to be made illegal.
What about the US? The country first of all needs a leader that is sentient.

We don't have any from either side.

 

[Twilight Hue]

My argument still stands. Infect and isolate, just like we would do to a lab animal. What makes it worse to do to a person, moreso then say a cat or dog? They feel love, pain, fear, and are empathetic, inasmuch as we are.

That would be sapience, not sentience.

 

[Valjean]

I'm sure the animals will be happy to comply themselves.

Animals don't have that social or behavioral option.

That would be sapience, not sentience.

???

 

[The Hammer]

That would be sapience, not sentience.

I think I was using the term correctly.

"The main difference between Sentience and Sapience is that the Sentience is a capacity to feel, perceive, or experience subjectively and Sapience is a deep understanding of or knowledge of a subject."

 

[Twilight Hue]

Animals don't have that social or behavioral option.

Neither do we collectively. We are animals ourselves at the end of the day.

 

[The Hammer]

I know personally I wouldn't be willing to be injected with a virus from an animal with no known vaccine, with the potential that it could kill me, just to have that virus then removed from my body and studied for the hopes of finding said vaccine.

This isn't about studying animals to see what viruses they have that are potentially dangerous to humans. This is about not testing medications, therapies, and other chemicals on non-human animals.

 

[The Hammer]

Neither do we collectively. We are animals ourselves at the end of the day.

We may be animals, but as a species we are able to empathise and utilize theory of mind, something no other species does (afaik), and that puts us in a unique position to preserve and protect, not ignore and/or violate.

 

[Valjean]

Neither do we collectively. We are animals ourselves at the end of the day.

But we're cultural animals. We may be strongly influenced by our biological heritage, but we're not bound by it. Culture is flexible.

 

[King Phenomenon]

This isn't about studying animals to see what viruses they have that are potentially dangerous to humans. This is about not testing medications, therapies, and other chemicals on non-human animals.

You mean our whole conversation could've been avoided?
Irregardless, don't we do this because some medications, therapys or chemicals might be harmful to humans?

 

[The Hammer]

You mean our whole conversation could've been avoided?
Irregardless, don't we do this because some medications, therapys or chemicals might be harmful to humans?

Yes, but it's also harmful to the animal as well. I think we need to find a more viable and ethical solution.

 

[Bear Wild]

New Zealand has officially recognized all animals as Sentient beings, and therefore should not be susceptible to thoughtless harm. This includes stopping medical and other forms of biological testing that is done on animals for the sake of humanity. Thoughts? Can we get something like this passed in the US? What will it take for the majority of society to recognize that animals are just as Sentient as we are.

New Zealand Recognizes All Animals As Sentient Beings

This is overdue and impressive at the same time. Frans de Waal in his books reviews the ridiculous conflict over this idea. This is unfortunately even more so in research in the United States which had to overcome the attitudes ingrained by people like Skinner. Despite all of the evidence in support there are still scientists who still argue against animals as sentient beings. Especially in western society there has been a desire to separate humans from all other life seeing all other life to be therefor a lack of willingness to recognize animals as sentient. It has only been recently this idea is accepted and thanks to many who took much criticism from the scientific community trying to promote this idea.

Unfortunately for the US there are huge barriers to overcome some rooted in religious attitudes, others an a intolerant conservative right wing currently with too much control. Trump reversing gains in animal protection and now opening up hunting on bear cubs! US needs to get rid of Trump if we are to have any hope.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I think I was using the term correctly.

"The main difference between Sentience and Sapience is that the Sentience is a capacity to feel, perceive, or experience subjectively and Sapience is a deep understanding of or knowledge of a subject."

I always had the former pegged as being more of an instinctive based sentience.

Just enough for an animal to help avoid danger and find food.

I do suppose for example you could look at chimps and dolphins as something a little bit more than that so there might be some truth involving social animals in terms of sentience.

 

[Twilight Hue]

This is overdue and impressive at the same time. Frans de Waal in his books reviews the ridiculous conflict over this idea. This is unfortunately even more so in research in the United States which had to overcome the attitudes ingrained by people like Skinner. Despite all of the evidence in support there are still scientists who still argue against animals as sentient beings. Especially in western society there has been a desire to separate humans from all other life seeing all other life to be therefor a lack of willingness to recognize animals as sentient. It has only been recently this idea is accepted and thanks to many who took much criticism from the scientific community trying to promote this idea.

Unfortunately for the US there are huge barriers to overcome some rooted in religious attitudes, others an a intolerant conservative right wing currently with too much control. Trump reversing gains in animal protection and now opening up hunting on bear cubs! US needs to get rid of Trump if we are to have any hope.

Other animals in nature do the exact same thing. What makes things different with humans?

 

[Brickjectivity]

New Zealand has officially recognized all animals as Sentient beings, and therefore should not be susceptible to thoughtless harm. This includes stopping medical and other forms of biological testing that is done on animals for the sake of humanity. Thoughts? Can we get something like this passed in the US? What will it take for the majority of society to recognize that animals are just as Sentient as we are.

New Zealand Recognizes All Animals As Sentient Beings

Most kinds of cruelty to animals is illegal here in USA. I think of all creatures the worst treated (here) are probably fowls and pigs, but there are regulations stipulating what is or is not allowed.

 

[Bear Wild]

How will angling be affected?

If you read the amendments to the original Animal Welfare act you find it is about the mistreatment of animals rather than a ban on all hunting and fishing. The statement is you need to have respect for what you hunt and fish for as an organism that is sentient and be responsible.

 

[Valjean]

You mean our whole conversation could've been avoided?
Irregardless, don't we do this because some medications, therapys or chemicals might be harmful to humans?

Yes. We exploit the powerless to benefit the powerful. Might makes right. Self interest trumps the Golden Rule.

 

[Twilight Hue]

We may be animals, but as a species we are able to empathise and utilize theory of mind, something no other species does (afaik), and that puts us in a unique position to preserve and protect, not ignore and/or violate.

Being an apex predator, I would say that it could be construed as a natural checks and balances by giving us these types of feelings so we don't destroy every living thing on the planet.

You're right we do have a higher utility made possible by our developed brains.

 

[Bear Wild]

Other animals in nature do the exact same thing. What makes things different with humans?

So other animals believe that humans are not sentient? That probably comes from observing how inhumane humans can be. Do you blame them.

 

[Twilight Hue]

So other animals believe that humans are not sentient? That probably comes from observing how inhumane humans can be. Do you blame them.

You should watch those Krueger National Wildlife park videos on YouTube.

 

[Valjean]

This is overdue and impressive at the same time. Frans de Waal in his books reviews the ridiculous conflict over this idea. This is unfortunately even more so in research in the United States which had to overcome the attitudes ingrained by people like Skinner. Despite all of the evidence in support there are still scientists who still argue against animals as sentient beings. Especially in western society there has been a desire to separate humans from all other life seeing all other life to be therefor a lack of willingness to recognize animals as sentient. It has only been recently this idea is accepted and thanks to many who took much criticism from the scientific community trying to promote this idea.

Unfortunately for the US there are huge barriers to overcome some rooted in religious attitudes, others an a intolerant conservative right wing currently with too much control. Trump reversing gains in animal protection and now opening up hunting on bear cubs! US needs to get rid of Trump if we are to have any hope.

Historically, tribal, racial or national exploitation tends to persist until a less exploitative alternative becomes viable; I expect special (in the Darwinian sense) exploitation will be no different.