New proseltysing tactic

[oldbadger]

My neighbour friends explained that the LDS has 'service only' missions. Nice.

I just can't see how breaking the laws of a country does anyone any good. Americans on their way to Alaska get turned around at the border of they're carrying stuff (guns, certain prescription meds) that are illegal in Canada. It's risky and irresponsible, besides being disrespectful of the host country, in my opinion.

..... you think JWs are running guns into Canada?

Oh.... sorry..... that was some kind of comparison to JWs knocking on your door with young children...... sorry.

Look..... haven't you got that sign up yet?

Put a bigger sign up! Something along the lines of 'No bloody sales calls. No Canvassers. No Politicians (whatever.... if you like any of those, just leave 'em off your list!) ..... No Religions! etc etc etc Certainly No Children.! And then you can have a pointing finger at the bottom of the sign with 'That means you!'.


Have you ever seen the film 'Second Hand Lions'...? You would love that.

 

[Pegg]

Would this preaching be punishable by the laws of the land if it were known to be taking place?

yes, they sure would.

But as humans, we are accountable to God first and foremost.

If the governments of this world try to stop us from doing what God has asked, then we follow the example of the Apostles:

Acts 5:27 So they brought them and stood them before the San′he·drin. Then the high priest questioned them 28 and said: “We strictly ordered you not to keep teaching on the basis of this name, and yet look! you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching, and you are determined to bring the blood of this man upon us.” 29 In answer Peter and the other apostles said: “We must obey God as ruler rather than men.

 

[Kalidas]

yes, they sure would.

But as humans, we are accountable to God first and foremost.

If the governments of this world try to stop us from doing what God has asked, then we follow the example of the Apostles:

Acts 5:27 So they brought them and stood them before the San′he·drin. Then the high priest questioned them 28 and said: “We strictly ordered you not to keep teaching on the basis of this name, and yet look! you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching, and you are determined to bring the blood of this man upon us.” 29 In answer Peter and the other apostles said: “We must obey God as ruler rather than men.

Maybe those laws were created for a strict and very important purpose that you can't possibly understand.

Maybe all they ask is that people respect their choices to live their life the way they want to. So long as the government actions are not harming people or forcing anyone in a position they wish not to be in I say let them live in a way that helps them.

 

[JayJayDee]

..... you think JWs are running guns into Canada?

OB, it was a misunderstanding......they thought the kid's water pistols were real. You know how jumpy people are these days. :run:

Seems we have to frisk the children before we take them out preaching.

Look..... haven't you got that sign up yet?

Apparently not.

Have you ever seen the film 'Second Hand Lions'...?

I actually loved that movie! :yes:

 

[Pegg]

Maybe those laws were created for a strict and very important purpose that you can't possibly understand.

and perhaps the command by God to go and tell people about his Son and the way to salvation was given for a very important puppose that you can't possibly understand until you've actually heard it.

We just do what we've been asked.... we are the messenger, thats all.

Maybe all they ask is that people respect their choices to live their life the way they want to. So long as the government actions are not harming people or forcing anyone in a position they wish not to be in I say let them live in a way that helps them.

would you say its respectful to allow people freedom of 'choice'?

 

[Kalidas]

and perhaps the command by God to go and tell people about his Son and the way to salvation was given for a very important puppose that you can't possibly understand until you've actually heard it.

We just do what we've been asked.... we are the messenger, thats all.




would you say its respectful to allow people freedom of 'choice'?

I've heard it, even followed it for 17 years. I left it behind.

It depends "choice" means a lot to many. I feel people should have a choice to find God on their own terms. I feel if a nation of people made the choice to not want people to spread their religion around without consent, to go to such a place knowing this and choosing to ignore these rules is disrespectful. By doing this you are saying "I know better than you do what is good for you."

 

[Pegg]

I've heard it, even followed it for 17 years. I left it behind.

It depends "choice" means a lot to many. I feel people should have a choice to find God on their own terms. I feel if a nation of people made the choice to not want people to spread their religion around without consent, to go to such a place knowing this and choosing to ignore these rules is disrespectful. By doing this you are saying "I know better than you do what is good for you."

well the way i see it is that for any of us to have choices, we need options.

Without options we only have what we've always had. If options are made available, then we have more opportunity to make choices.

Variety is a good thing and being able to choose from a wider variety gives us more options. And i wouldnt mind it if other religions came to my door to tell me about their beliefs. I've only ever had 2 different religions come to my door... both christian.

 

[dance-above]

Is it nonsense? I am never going to change my mind and bow to those "appointed to take the lead". Even if they were able to prove they have been appointed by God Almighty (they can't) I would not bow to them and Jesus knows it because Jesus knows people's hearts. There are many more people who are convinced they must not bow to them and they don't. Why, if we die before the great day of the resurrection, would we be resurrected to obey them? You say "only those obeying ALL the son instructs" get to live in paradise. God knows we won't.
You are calling what YOU say utter nonsense because you say anyone not obeying ALL Jesus commands do not deserve life andf that is what I said. HERE: I am a Christian who rejects the faithful and discreet slave. I say I won't be resurrected and you say "nonsense" but then you say I must obey ALL Jesus commands and one is obey those taking the lead and I won't.

Hang in there savage wind. Jesus foretold about false prophets.don't be afraid of them.if the blind lead the blind they will both fall in a ditch. You know it pointless to argue withem because anytime it has been pointed out the error of there way they just change the scripture to suit themselves.they must not think them self worthy of the grace of God.

 

[oldbadger]

OB, it was a misunderstanding......they thought the kid's water pistols were real. You know how jumpy people are these days. :run:

Seems we have to frisk the children before we take them out preaching.

Apparently not.

I actually loved that movie! :yes:

What 500+ posts and still no sign? Some folks like to moan, you know. If they put a sign up and then nobody called, there would be no thing to complain about.

Second Hand Lions is such a great film.......... The armed porch patrol, waiting for salesmen callers.....

'Good evening, my name is Donald am I have come here this evening from the Woodham Ferrers Christian Fellowship to save your miserable sinful...... BANG! BANG! ...... screams.......... more gunshots....... pregnant silence!!!

 

[Vinayaka]

For those who didn't bother to read the entire thread ...http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3782524-post126.html so far it has worked well.

 

[mystic64]

Hang in there savage wind. Jesus foretold about false prophets.don't be afraid of them.if the blind lead the blind they will both fall in a ditch. You know it pointless to argue withem because anytime it has been pointed out the error of there way they just change the scripture to suit themselves.they must not think them self worthy of the grace of God.

Boy do I second that !

What is funny is that they run the same mind programming technique that all religious extremists and fundalmentalists use, both past and present. All of them. And this same mind programming technique is also used to create fanatics and extremists in politics and business. And they all say the samething, "If we are not allowed to do (what their handlers compel them to do) we will go underground and secret." All of them. And all of those that are religious are all doing what they are doing because of "the will or the command of God." Not because of the will of their handlers. And if you remove their handlers and those that maintain their mind programming technique, then the whole thing falls apart. Which is why the eight "slave class" fellows and their choosen leader class are in complete control of everything. And also why the religious leaders of the different Moslem extremist organizations are in total control of everything. There is always one or more handlers behind all extremist movements. Normal movements are made up of independent thinkers working to together to solve a problem and these normal movements are never extremist. They may be covert but their ideology is never extremist. They are always independent thinkers working together to solve a problem and never a group of people under the will of one person or a smaller few persons which are usually lead by one person either overtly or quietly.

Handlers using a mind control programming technique that is tried and true and guaranteed to work on a large number of folks that are vulnerable to this program. And there is a version of this program that works quite nicely to turn some people into suicide bombers and folks that shoot other folks in public places for seemingly no reason.

Now with that said, I want it perfectly understood that the Jehovah Witness organization is "benigh and non violent. And they always will be!" And one does have to respect their leadership for that. It would also be nice and a gift to all of us if other religious extremist leaders would follow their example .

 

[Kalidas]

well the way i see it is that for any of us to have choices, we need options.

Without options we only have what we've always had. If options are made available, then we have more opportunity to make choices.

Variety is a good thing and being able to choose from a wider variety gives us more options. And i wouldnt mind it if other religions came to my door to tell me about their beliefs. I've only ever had 2 different religions come to my door... both christian.

option are great I had many options at the age of 18 and decided to search for myself what I believed in and what i wanted out of life.

I found a man (a good friend of mine now) who was a hindu and asked him what it was all about and we talked. He didn't knock on my door, he didn't ask me to talk to him, he didn't just blurt his ideas at me. I came to him and even then he was reluctant, until I asked again and he answered. There are in fact MANY options, and anyone who is TRULY searching will find what they are looking for. No need for intervention

Maybe someone can explain this logic to me because i never understood and as I get older it makes LESS sense. The word of God is magnificent and perfect, all who know it will be happy, all who live by it will find heaven. If this message is so perfect, and so magnificent why does it need people to spread it? Should it not be so perfectly apparent that just the sight of these people who live by this word be a shining example as to the truth of this word? But apparently some people think not. They think Gods word needs "help".

 

[JayJayDee]

option are great I had many options at the age of 18 and decided to search for myself what I believed in and what i wanted out of life.

You have heard of bad press Kalidas? We believe that a slanderer is loose in the world and that he controls the media....he actually controls the "whole world",(according to 1 John 5:19) He has been spreading lies about Jesus' Father since the beginning in Eden, and now he is spreading lies about those who are disciples of God's son.

He has a counterfeit system of worship that caters to all sensibilities and personal tastes, even fake Christianity. (Matt 13:24-30)

All worship that is rejected by the Father, (even the counterfeit Christianity. Matt 7:21-23) is gratefully accepted by the devil. It is what he has wanted from the creation of lesser beings....to "be like God" to them. He even had the hide to ask Jesus to worship him.

The apostle Paul wrote..."what the nations sacrifice, they sacrifice to demons and not to God; and I do not want you to become sharers with the demons. You cannot be drinking the cup of Jehovah and the cup of demons; you cannot be partaking of “the table of Jehovah” and the table of demons." (1 Cor 10:20, 21)

The devil knows that most people would not knowingly offer worship to the demons, so he dresses up false worship to look respectable...his "angel of light" trick. (2 Cor 11:14, 15) He is the master of deception. He has used the same tactics over and over, down through the centuries, because he knows they work. Humans selfishly choose options that supposedly give them freedom, but slavery to the devil and his world is what they get in return.

God sees all false worship under one designation..."Babylon the great". This is the devil's global religious empire and the means by which he can lure people into his web of deceit. All beliefs and practices that find their origins in ancient Babylon, are part of "Babylon the great" whether they claim to be Christian or not.

The apostle Peter spoke of those who would lead others away from true worship..."These are waterless springs and mists driven by a violent storm, and the blackest darkness has been reserved for them. They make high-sounding statements that are empty. By appealing to the desires of the flesh and with acts of brazen conduct, they entice people who have just escaped from those who live in error. While they are promising them freedom, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for if anyone is overcome by someone, he is his slave." (2 Pet 2:17-19)

We have the freedom to choose, but informed choice is the only one worth making. We are slaves of those we obey, so best we choose our master(s) carefully.

I was raised in Christendom and I had heard about Jehovah's Witnesses from all kinds of people. None of it was from first hand knowledge and none of it was good. Those I saw interviewed in the media who had first hand knowledge, were almost always EX-JW's with an axe to grind, either because their own views were not given the credence that their pride felt was warranted, or they had been disciplined for unrepentant wrongdoing and had their noses out of joint. Either way, all I saw was hate. That is the one thing I never see among Jehovah's people. They will never hate or do harm to anyone and promote peace and love among themselves, no matter what nation they inhabit or the animosity that exists between their respective countries. (John 13:34, 35)

If JW's had not come to my door and introduced me to their beliefs, I would never have known the truth about them. I would have gone on thinking that they were just religious fanatics who had nothing to tell me. Getting information from the horse's mouth is better than getting it from twisted opposers. Jesus' example teaches us that. So I for one am grateful for the door to door ministry of JW's. Others have told me the same thing.
Jesus said to expect the same treatment that he got from people who claimed to worship the same God, and also from those who didn't. (John 15:19, 20)

I found a man (a good friend of mine now) who was a hindu and asked him what it was all about and we talked. He didn't knock on my door, he didn't ask me to talk to him, he didn't just blurt his ideas at me. I came to him and even then he was reluctant, until I asked again and he answered. There are in fact MANY options, and anyone who is TRULY searching will find what they are looking for. No need for intervention

If that is what you were seeking, then your heart found its home. This is what we must all do. We choose...God does not choose for us. That is why judgment is so fair....we chose our course based on what was in our heart.

Maybe someone can explain this logic to me because i never understood and as I get older it makes LESS sense. The word of God is magnificent and perfect, all who know it will be happy, all who live by it will find heaven. If this message is so perfect, and so magnificent why does it need people to spread it?

For all the reasons I just gave. Propaganda has been working on man since Eden.
Marketers know the power of the negative image.
Just rubbish your opposition's product, make it appear to be dangerous and promote your own as the only one that will bring the benefits you seek. Just believe their expert 's opinions and research....don't do your own.

Should it not be so perfectly apparent that just the sight of these people who live by this word be a shining example as to the truth of this word?

Yep, the sight of armed soldiers praying with their chaplains or religious advisers when about to drop bombs or to go into combat and spill innocent blood is such a shining example in the world.

On investigation I see that Hinduism is also ready to spill blood when it is deemed righteous to do so. What makes them different so to Christendom? Isn't the "righteous war" mentality shared here?

The site HinduismLive.com said of Hindu gods, that "All deities have a warrior aspect about them and carry weapons of various kinds. When challenged by the Asuras (demons) they participate in wars on their own or seek the help of other gods to join them in the fight."

This sounds a lot like the angels spoken about in scripture. Angels can be used as warriors too if God deems that fighting injustice or to uphold his purpose is necessary.
One angel is said to have dispatched an entire Assyrian army of 185,000 men in one night. (2 Kings 19:35) On other occasions, the angels are said to fight together as an army. (2 Thess 1:7-9)

In Hinduism, the rewards for warriors dying on battle resemble that of Muslims who die as martyrs. There is apparently a "warriors heaven where enjoyments of various kinds await them."

http://www.hinduwebsite.com/hinduism/h_war.asp

There is a common thread running through most religions, because they all have one source....Babylon.

 

[JayJayDee]

Boy do I second that !

What is funny is that they run the same mind programming technique that all religious extremists and fundalmentalists use, both past and present. All of them. And this same mind programming technique is also used to create fanatics and extremists in politics and business. And they all say the samething, "If we are not allowed to do (what their handlers compel them to do) we will go underground and secret." All of them. And all of those that are religious are all doing what they are doing because of "the will or the command of God." Not because of the will of their handlers. And if you remove their handlers and those that maintain their mind programming technique, then the whole thing falls apart. Which is why the eight "slave class" fellows and their choosen leader class are in complete control of everything. And also why the religious leaders of the different Moslem extremist organizations are in total control of everything. There is always one or more handlers behind all extremist movements. Normal movements are made up of independent thinkers working to together to solve a problem and these normal movements are never extremist. They may be covert but their ideology is never extremist. They are always independent thinkers working together to solve a problem and never a group of people under the will of one person or a smaller few persons which are usually lead by one person either overtly or quietly.

Covert? There is nothing covert about us. Our meetings are public. Have you ever attended one? Maybe you should just to see firsthand that what you are saying about us is not true. If you knew anything about Jehovah's Witnesses, you would see us following the model of Jesus Christ, not any fundamentalist movement. Was Jesus a religious extremist, mystic? If he was then we will happily carry on that tradition. Did he tell us to search for "deserving ones"? (Matt 10:11-15) That is what we are doing.

The care and control of the first Christian congregations was left in the hands of men appointed by Christ to finish the work he started. It ends with his slaves are found doing the work and he commends them for a job well done....and when the last sheep is in the pen, "then the end will come". (Matt 24:14; 45, 46) Are you ready? Or are you going to be like a lot of people that Jesus mentions in Matt 24:36-39? :ignore:

Handlers using a mind control programming technique that is tried and true and guaranteed to work on a large number of folks that are vulnerable to this program. And there is a version of this program that works quite nicely to turn some people into suicide bombers and folks that shoot other folks in public places for seemingly no reason.

Yeah, that's a really good description of Jehovah's Witnesses....not !
We blow ourselves up and take all the infidels with us. Good grief!
We don't kill the infidels mystic, we preach to them...nicely.

"Handlers"? You make them sound like zookeepers.

Where are you getting all this silly stuff? I feel sad that you can express such ignorance with that kind of conviction. The Jews did that too, at Jesus' execution. (Matt 27:25) :sad:

Now with that said, I want it perfectly understood that the Jehovah Witness organization is "benigh and non violent. And they always will be!" And one does have to respect their leadership for that. It would also be nice and a gift to all of us if other religious extremist leaders would follow their example .

Seriously, :help: would you like to make up your mind?

Can I get your definition of "religious extremism" as it applies to JW's?

And then you say that we are not so dangerous after all.....:thud:

 

[Pegg]

Handlers using a mind control programming technique that is tried and true and guaranteed to work on a large number of folks that are vulnerable to this program. And there is a version of this program that works quite nicely to turn some people into suicide bombers and folks that shoot other folks in public places for seemingly no reason.

Now with that said, I want it perfectly understood that the Jehovah Witness organization is "benigh and non violent. And they always will be!" And one does have to respect their leadership for that. It would also be nice and a gift to all of us if other religious extremist leaders would follow their example .

this just reminded me of Jesus words:

Matthew 7;17 Likewise, every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, nor can a rotten tree produce fine fruit


I've seen the good fruitage produced by those who associate with the Watchtower and its congregations. It can only be holy spirit producing such fruitage in so many people from all sorts of backgrounds and cultures.

Let Jehovah be our judge.

 

[savagewind]

Covert? There is nothing covert about us.

This is not true. There are a number of people who call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses and appear to be of the happy lot but who prey on JW children. This is a fact. Then the leaders when they need the money demanded by law for the victims they never send a letter to congregations which says "who of you will contribute to this problem?" They say ALL money goes to the world wide work of JWs to further Jehovah's purpose. Is hiding the fact pedophiles dwell happily among the congregations Jehovah's purpose? Why not send the governing body a letter asking how much money has been spent on it?

You might say no one is perfect and no man can know what another will do. Do you not expect the truth from the leaders of "the truth"?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

this just reminded me of Jesus words:

Matthew 7;17 Likewise, every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, nor can a rotten tree produce fine fruit


I've seen the good fruitage produced by those who associate with the Watchtower and its congregations. It can only be holy spirit producing such fruitage in so many people from all sorts of backgrounds and cultures.

Let Jehovah be our judge.

What good "fruitage"? Have you seen it elsewhere?

In my experience, any group - religious or not - has a mix of good and bad, so I'm not sure that reality fits into that absolutist "good fruit/bad fruit" dichotomy.

 

[savagewind]

What good "fruitage"? Have you seen it elsewhere?

In my experience, any group - religious or not - has a mix of good and bad, so I'm not sure that reality fits into that absolutist "good fruit/bad fruit" dichotomy.

Here is a person who recognizes that what people believe about the world is what they will see about it and what they will get. He offers a solution that is easy for anyone to do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C80Sca5XqsQ

Jehovah's Witnesses BELIEVE everyone but the Jehovah's Witnesses are more or less bad. If what the man says is true then they are contributors to the problem. What would Jesus say?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

yes, they sure would.

But as humans, we are accountable to God first and foremost.

If the governments of this world try to stop us from doing what God has asked, then we follow the example of the Apostles:

Acts 5:27 So they brought them and stood them before the San′he·drin. Then the high priest questioned them 28 and said: “We strictly ordered you not to keep teaching on the basis of this name, and yet look! you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching, and you are determined to bring the blood of this man upon us.” 29 In answer Peter and the other apostles said: “We must obey God as ruler rather than men.

But not the example of Paul:

Romans 13:1-2:

Every*[a]person is to be in*subjection to the governing authorities. For*there is no authority except*from God, and those which exist are established by God.*2*Therefore*[c]whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves.*

The Bible really is the Big Book of Multiple Choice, isn't it?

 

[mystic64]

Covert? There is nothing covert about us. Our meetings are public. Have you ever attended one? Maybe you should just to see firsthand that what you are saying about us is not true. If you knew anything about Jehovah's Witnesses, you would see us following the model of Jesus Christ, not any fundamentalist movement. Was Jesus a religious extremist, mystic? If he was then we will happily carry on that tradition. Did he tell us to search for "deserving ones"? (Matt 10:11-15) That is what we are doing.

The care and control of the first Christian congregations was left in the hands of men appointed by Christ to finish the work he started. It ends with his slaves are found doing the work and he commends them for a job well done....and when the last sheep is in the pen, "then the end will come". (Matt 24:14; 45, 46) Are you ready? Or are you going to be like a lot of people that Jesus mentions in Matt 24:36-39? :ignore:

Yeah, that's a really good description of Jehovah's Witnesses....not !
We blow ourselves up and take all the infidels with us. Good grief!
We don't kill the infidels mystic, we preach to them...nicely.

"Handlers"? You make them sound like zookeepers.

Where are you getting all this silly stuff? I feel sad that you can express such ignorance with that kind of conviction. The Jews did that too, at Jesus' execution. (Matt 27:25) :sad:

Seriously, :help: would you like to make up your mind?

Can I get your definition of "religious extremism" as it applies to JW's?

And then you say that we are not so dangerous after all.....:thud:

Well JayJayDee, you have twisted my words a bit. But that is ok. It is all "thesis versus anti thesis creates synthesis." And usually a part of the dynamics of debate and discussion. And I am glad that you are not writing me off totally as not worthy to debate .

"What is my definition of "religious extremism" as it applies to the Jehovah Witness Movement?" "Religion n. 1a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe." "extremist n. One who advocates or resorts to measures that are beyond the norm, especially in politics." Well JayJayDee, that is what my dictionary says about those two words. And, "Norm n. 1. A standard, model, or pattern regarded as typical."

I guess that it all boils down to the word, "typical/normal."

So JayJayDee, lets start here: Explain to me, those that are participating in this discussion, and the "viewers", anything that there is about the Jehovah Witness Moverment that could be considered typical/normal?