Nebuchadnezzar's Statue. Daniel Chapture 2

[Moz]

The dream of nebuchadnezzar recorded in Daniel 2 has been interpeted as signifying the progression of world powers that would hold sway over Gods people until the establishment of Gods kingdom. Babylon, Medo/Persia, Greece, Rome and a composite thing at the very end, the feet.

My question is about the transition from the legs to the feet. Various dates have been given as the "fall of the Roman Empire. 410, 476, 1453 ect but after each date it seems that the Roman genius continued. Abdul Malik ruling as a roman empire in all but name, the holy roman empire in the west, Russia claiming to be the "thrird Rome.' We have kings ruling as Caesar and claiming the continued authority of "the divine right of kings' ( Kaiser, Tsar, Emperor, Sha n Sha ect) until the outbreak of WW1.

Would it be reasonable then to posit the idea that the transition from the iron of rome to the clay and iron of the last kingdom occured around the time that these entities ceased to exist.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Much in Daniel is tied in with John’s Revelation:

Jehovah Reveals What “Must Shortly Take Place” — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

Check out this information....

Search — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

 

[sooda]

The dream of nebuchadnezzar recorded in Daniel 2 has been interpeted as signifying the progression of world powers that would hold sway over Gods people until the establishment of Gods kingdom. Babylon, Medo/Persia, Greece, Rome and a composite thing at the very end, the feet.

My question is about the transition from the legs to the feet. Various dates have been given as the "fall of the Roman Empire. 410, 476, 1453 ect but after each date it seems that the Roman genius continued. Abdul Malik ruling as a roman empire in all but name, the holy roman empire in the west, Russia claiming to be the "thrird Rome.' We have kings ruling as Caesar and claiming the continued authority of "the divine right of kings' ( Kaiser, Tsar, Emperor, Sha n Sha ect) until the outbreak of WW1.

Would it be reasonable then to posit the idea that the transition from the iron of rome to the clay and iron of the last kingdom occured around the time that these entities ceased to exist.

Daniel is a book of fiction written in 167 B.C..

 

[Moz]

Much in Daniel is tied in with John’s Revelation:

Jehovah Reveals What “Must Shortly Take Place” — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

Check out this information....

Search — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

Thanks for the information... It was a bit of a slog and i will have to go through it deeper when i get a chance. The secular leaning anglo american hegomony that emerged from the first world war does seem to fit with the description in daniel. Peace.

 

[Moz]

Daniel is a book of fiction written in 167 B.C..

Ok so you think it's fiction. You like saying that but it really matters little. What was the author refering to with this fiction. It seems to tie in with the endtime prophecies of later writers, especially revelation so whatever is going on it extends way past your claimed date of 162 bce. ( the idea that it was written during the maccabees period is actually pretty weak if you look into the cultural references the author of daniel 'makes, but thats a whole other can of worms.)
The story was written for a reason, to convey something, otherwise it wouldn't be there.
I can go back to any number of ancient stories and discern the meaning of the author, within the story, and what they were trying to convey. Its done with all the great works. It's done with Plato, Aristotle, Socrates, Heroditus, Cicero, Livey, Homer , Shakespeare and any other writer of the ancient or modern world you care to mention. They are all fiction but they have a meaning intrinsic to themselves that can be discerned. Peace.

 

[Moz]

Thanks for the information... It was a bit of a slog and i will have to go through it deeper when i get a chance. The secular leaning anglo american hegomony that emerged from the first world war does seem to fit with the description in daniel. Peace.

Hi.
Their is a British television mini series called "The Fall of Eagles" that was made in the 1970's. It follows the events that occured from the revolutions of 1878 up until the end of the first world war. The main protagonists are the Tsar of Russia, the Kaiser of Germany, the Emperor of Austria/Hungry .

The series focuses on the tension between their absolute belief in the"divine right of Kings" and the secular democratic forces emerging in the Europe of that time. It really seems that something fundemental about the governing structures of mankind was changed in the period from 1910-1920. The Russian,German, Austrian, Ottoman and Chinese emperors all fell in that same short period. That has to signify something profound was going on surely.

I guess this ties in with the 1914 stuff that you run into whenever looking into the witness belief structure. I'm not sure what to make of the whole 586/607 thing. I agree that Cyrus' decree is the end of the exile and that 70 years before leads to 607 but their is such a case against it in the secular histories. I've actually been looking into Sir Henry Rawlinson, the father of Assyriology, and have found that he chose certain eclipses to base his dating while discarding other possible eclipses that seem to fit better with some ancient descriptions and that he could have been out by 20 years. Still digging on that one. Berossus and Ptolemy, whom both seem suspect on their scholarship are tied in with all this as well. It's a fun but frustrating journey.
But on that.. the evidence that in 1910 80% of the world was ruled by Emperors appointed by Heaven, at least in their own minds, and that at the end of the war none survived is a pretty strong indication of a seismic change in the world order. Peace.

 

[sooda]

Ok so you think it's fiction. You like saying that but it really matters little. What was the author refering to with this fiction. It seems to tie in with the endtime prophecies of later writers, especially revelation so whatever is going on it extends way past your claimed date of 162 bce. ( the idea that it was written during the maccabees period is actually pretty weak if you look into the cultural references the author of daniel 'makes, but thats a whole other can of worms.)
The story was written for a reason, to convey something, otherwise it wouldn't be there.
I can go back to any number of ancient stories and discern the meaning of the author, within the story, and what they were trying to convey. Its done with all the great works. It's done with Plato, Aristotle, Socrates, Heroditus, Cicero, Livey, Homer , Shakespeare and any other writer of the ancient or modern world you care to mention. They are all fiction but they have a meaning intrinsic to themselves that can be discerned. Peace.

Daniel is NOT considered a prophet in Judaism.. The book was written by a group of Jews as history and encouragement to the Jews during the atrocities of Antiochus IV Epiphanes.

 

[Moz]

Daniel is NOT considered a prophet in Judaism.. The book was written by a group of Jews as history and encouragement to the Jews during the atrocities of Antiochus IV Epiphanes.

Ok then. So what the hell was this group of Jew's trying to convey with this story of the statue and what are the feet of iron and clay refering to in connection with the events around antiochus.

Daniel is not considered a prophet by jews?
Well the jews that followed Jesus sure considered him a prophet, they quoted him as such. Also he was included in the hebrew scripture and placed in the prophets.

Actually if you'd like to go down the daniel was written in the 160's bce and not 500's rabbit hole i'm happy to take the journey. Once the refuse is cut through the real reason they say Daniel must have been written at the latter date is that he is startingly accurate. Hardly the most airtight of arguements.

But please at least answer the question as to why these jewish writers made up the statue story. Peace.