Neat Video Explaining the Evidence of Our Relationship To the Other Great Apes

[Sapiens]

No wonder you believe in macro-evolution. You'll believe anything.

No ... it is not a question of belief, as it is in your case. I KNOW that once I have walked 5280 feet I've walked a mile, the same goes for the transition between the similarly human defined terms of micro and macro evolution.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

There is not a leaf that falls on this Planet, except with the permission of God.

So you agree that the god you believe in is a real <expletive>

There is not a leaf that falls on this Planet, except with the permission of God.

Every soul will taste death. And We test you with evil and with good as trial; and to Us you will be returned. Qur'an 21:35

God allows people to be tested with diseases, natural disasters, pain etc. so that people will be distinguished by their patience and thankfulness.

So you agree that the god you believe in is a real <expletive>.

Your "god allows people to be tested" statement? Is exactly like this:

"Fred has a son. Fred isn't following the exact letter of the law. But let's not punish Fred-- let's kill his son instead, slowly and in the most painful way possible. And worse? Let's not even speak to Fred about it. Let's let Fred wonder in anguish why his only child suffered and dies. That'll teach old Fred, won't it?

Meanwhile, the son who is so wracked with pain, wonders Why? Why is the Universe so Evil?"

If there is a god? I wonder that same thing....!

 

[Muslim-UK]

Your "god allows people to be tested" statement? Is exactly like this:

"Fred has a son. Fred isn't following the exact letter of the law. But let's not punish Fred-- let's kill his son instead, slowly and in the most painful way possible. And worse? Let's not even speak to Fred about it. Let's let Fred wonder in anguish why his only child suffered and dies. That'll teach old Fred, won't it?

Meanwhile, the son who is so wracked with pain, wonders Why? Why is the Universe so Evil?"

If there is a god? I wonder that same thing....!

You're alluding to the Catholic Doctrine of believing in the blood of Christ. Nothing to do with the Qur'an. The early Christians didn't even believe Jesus pbuh had been crucified.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

You're alluding to the Catholic Doctrine of believing in the blood of Christ. Nothing to do with the Qur'an. The early Christians didn't even believe Jesus pbuh had been crucified.

No. I'm directly referring to your very ugly claim that cancer in kids is some sort of forking TEST by your god.

My post DIRECTLY addresses that very ugly statement you made.

 

[Muslim-UK]

No. I'm directly referring to your very ugly claim that cancer in kids is some sort of forking TEST by your god.

My post DIRECTLY addresses that very ugly statement you made.

You as a non believer can not comprehend that this life is a test, it's as simple as that. Every one is tested, some through loss of wealth, health, a loved one, etc. No believing soul is tested beyond what it can cope with.

Go to a refugee camp and talk to believing people, who have held their children in their arms and watched them die following a bombing. Internally they will be broken with grief, but they understand full well their children are in Paradise. What will they say? 'All praise be to God'. Our hopes extend beyond this World, and believers look forward to being reunited with loved ones, God willing.

Ask the non believers to release a press statement following a drone attack, that hit the wrong building killing innocent people, and they will say, unfortunate collateral damage.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You as a non believer can not comprehend that this life is a test, it's as simple as that. Every one is tested, some through loss of wealth, health, a loved one, etc. No believing soul is tested beyond what it can cope with.

Go to a refugee camp and talk to believing people, who have held their children in their arms and watched them die following a bombing. Internally they will be broken with grief, but they understand full well their children are in Paradise. What will they say? 'All praise be to God'. Our hopes extend beyond this World, and believers look forward to being reunited with loved ones, God willing.

Ask the non believers to release a press statement following a drone attack, that hit the wrong building killing innocent people, and they will say, unfortunate collateral damage.

That god is not worthy of worship, in my opinion. A god that allows the Holocaust to happen, for example, as some sort of test of those peoples' soul is a sick god. Sorry. Those people were given more than any human being could ever cope with, and 6 million gave their lives for it. A rather disgusting test, wouldn't you say?

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

You as a non believer can not comprehend that ...

I have been both a believer and a nonbeliever, and nothing became incomprehensible because I stopped believing.

... that this life is a test, it's as simple as that. Every one is tested, some through loss of wealth, health, a loved one, etc.

So I guess we'd be doing God's work to help with the testing,. Maybe we should give people leukemia or burn down their houses to see how they handle it and to show them how much we love them. Man should strive to emulate the moral perfection of God, right?

One thing I could be sure of is that if I was doing what God does, I wouldn't be sinning inasmuch as He is sinless.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

You're alluding to the Catholic Doctrine of believing in the blood of Christ. Nothing to do with the Qur'an. The early Christians didn't even believe Jesus pbuh had been crucified.

Way to miss the point ENTIRELY.

He was saying that God "testing" people and then their receiving disease or natural disaster as punishment for disobedience is SECRET/CLANDESTINE punishment.

Let's say my literal son colors on the wall with crayons. Instead of letting him know that it was wrong, reprimanding him and doling out some suitable punishment, I instead decide TO DO THINGS LIKE GOD AND NOT TELL HIM, AND SECRETLY PUT A DOSE OF THE FLU VIRUS IN HIS BREAKFAST THE NEXT MORNING. That's how you are saying God operates when you assume that any disease or natural disaster (flood anyone?) is His punishment for something. It is deplorable, sick and twisted. If I were to "test" my children as God seems to enjoy "testing" the people of this planet (all His supposed "children") I would GO TO PRISON, and RIGHTLY so. God is a nut-job at best, a psychopath at worst, and if He exists (an astronomically HUGE "if" by my estimation), He'd definitely not get my vote for the "Father of the Year" award, but may only just barely pass and get the "Non-Psychopath of the Last 25 Milliseconds" award.

 

[Muslim-UK]

That god is not worthy of worship, in my opinion. A god that allows the Holocaust to happen, for example, as some sort of test of those peoples' soul is a sick god. Sorry. Those people were given more than any human being could ever cope with, and 6 million gave their lives for it. A rather disgusting test, wouldn't you say?

Hitler and his cronies used their free will to inflict the Holocaust. Those he killed are in Paradise, whilst the perpetrators are suffering eternal punishment.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

You as a non believer can not comprehend that this life is a test, it's as simple as that.

How is it "testing" to have CHILDREN DIE? How on EARTH is the child benefited here?

100% of your "argument" hinges on the FACT that you think ADULTS are MORE IMPORTANT THAN CHILDREN-- therefore? According to YOU? Children are utterly without value under your system. You do not even see them as separate individuals!

What sort of god DOES that?

Answer: an evil one.

 

[Muslim-UK]

So I guess we'd be doing God's work to help with the testing,. Maybe we should give people leukemia or burn down their houses to see how they handle it and to show them how much we love them.

No because believers have been given strict commandments to follow. Do not kill, do not cause harm, do not envy. But do good works, work in science and find cures, help your fellow man.

Man should strive to emulate the moral perfection of God, right?

As per the guidance sent down, yes.

One thing I could be sure of is that if I was doing what God does, I wouldn't be sinning inasmuch as He is sinless.

God is perfect and free from any blemish. Man has been given free will, which means crimes done against fellow humans will have to be answered for. Whether that be a suicide bomber killing innocent people, or a man mowing down pedestrians, or someone sanctioning genocide. We may not fully understand God, but He has given us enough knowledge to help make this world a safe and decent place for all people to live in.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Hitler and his cronies used their free will to inflict the Holocaust.

You said god tests us. That god doesn't present us with more than we can cope with. How about the free will of the 6 million people the Nazis killed using their free will?

Those he killed are in Paradise, whilst the perpetrators are suffering eternal punishment.

So you claim. It just sounds like wishful thinking to me.

 

[Muslim-UK]

You said god tests us. That god doesn't present us with more than we can cope with. How about the free will of the 6 million people the Nazis killed using their free will?

The innocent Jews had their free will removed by the evil nazis. ,<<<< Blame man, not God.

So you claim. It just sounds like wishful thinking to me.

Absolutely no soul is wronged in the hereafter. Those Jews were innocent people. Imagine we over rule God's plan and pretend there was no test on Earth. God knows who is destined for hell and paradise. You are presented before God and told to enter the fire, you will naturally protest, for what reason? That would be unjust of God. Now when those Nazis are presented before God and told where they will abide, they can not dare to question the ultimate Judge. I hope that makes sense.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Hitler and his cronies used their free will to inflict the Holocaust. Those he killed are in Paradise, whilst the perpetrators are suffering eternal punishment.

Though possible, there is no reason to believe that - no more than believing that Hitler's victims are being punished and Hitler rewarded.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Hitler and his cronies used their free will to inflict the Holocaust. Those he killed are in Paradise, whilst the perpetrators are suffering eternal punishment.

So. By THAT argument? We should be aborting as many babies as we can-- because they Instantly Go To Heaven. No chance of hell. Right?

Right?

Meanwhile: anyone who is complacent with INFINITE TORTURE (hell) has failed as a caring human being.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

The innocent Jews had their free will removed by the evil nazis. ,<<<< Blame man, not God.

So you agree-- your god has ABDICATED it's Godly Responsibility?

This is not good. It means your god is complicit in the commission of evil.

This means your god is evil too.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

No because believers have been given strict commandments to follow. Do not kill, do not cause harm, do not envy. But do good works, work in science and find cures, help your fellow man.

But those aren't God's values. He kills, causes harm, and has taught us no cures. Shouldn't we all strive to emulate that sinless perfection?

God is perfect and free from any blemish. Man has been given free will, which means crimes done against fellow humans will have to be answered for.

Then we should strive to be godlike and inflict leukemia onto people as He does to test those people's mettle, right? We have a right to know if they would pass the test. And we can be assured that we would not be sinning since it is godly behavior.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

The innocent Jews had their free will removed by the evil nazis. ,<<<< Blame man, not God.

Thank man. Man put a stop to it as God sat idly by, watching.

I've noticed that God, whenever confronted with a choice, always does what would happen if there were no God.

God knows who is destined for hell and paradise.

Then the tests are just for yucks? Sure seems like it. Remember poor Job and the pointless infliction of grief and suffering on a man for no apparent reason.

 

[Muslim-UK]

But those aren't God's values. He kills, causes harm,

Who did God harm?
Who did He kill?

and has taught us no cures. Shouldn't we all strive to emulate that sinless perfection?

The Prophet pbuh did mention several herbs and oil to help fight diseases.
Prophetic Medicine - Lifestyle & Wellbeing According to the Quran & Sunna

Elsewhere we read:

Abu Hurayrah narrates that The Prophet pbuh said:
“There is no disease that Allah has created, except that He also has created its remedy.”
Bukhari 7.582

Usamah ibn Shuraik narrated:
“… ‘O Allah’s Messenger! Should we seek medical treatment for our illnesses?’ He replied: ‘Yes, you should seek medical treatment, because Allah, the Exalted, has let no disease exist without providing for its cure, except for one ailment, namely, old age’.”
Tirmidhi

Taking proper care of ones health is considered by the Prophet Muhammad pbuh to be the right of the body.
Bukhari as-Sawm 55, an-Nikah 89, Muslim as-siyyam 183, 193, Nisai

The Prophet not only instructed sick people to take medicine, but he himself invited expert physicians for this purpose.
D.o.H. p.50, As-Suyuti’s Medicine of the Prophet p.125

From this brief beginning one would gather that Imaan (faith) and Tawakkul (trust) have to be the uttermost important part of a Muslim’s belief. Hence, problems, illnesses or troubles of life, should be very easy to cope with. But, since this material world has been classed as Darul Asbaab (A world of means) it is necessary to take medication for one’s illness. In most cases Mufti’s would give a ruling of suicide for one who died in the event of not taking medicine. We all would be required by Shariah (Islamic Law) to have trust in Allah but search for the cure, which would be classed as the highest grade of Tawakkul – Trust in Allah.

Then we should strive to be godlike and inflict leukemia onto people as He does to test those people's mettle, right? We have a right to know if they would pass the test. And we can be assured that we would not be sinning since it is godly behavior.

You who believe! be upholders of justice, bearing witness for Allah alone, even against yourselves or your parents and relatives. Whether they are rich or poor, Allah is well able to look after them. Do not follow your own desires and deviate from the truth. If you twist or turn away, Allah is aware of what you do. Qur'an 4:135

You who believe! show integrity for the sake of Allah, bearing witness with justice. Do not let hatred for a people incite you into not being just. Be just. That is closer to taqwa. Fear [and respect] Allah. Allah is aware of what you do. Qur'an 5:8

Say: “My Lord has commanded justice…” Qur'an 7:29

So call and go straight as you have been ordered to. Do not follow their whims and desires but say, ‘I have iman in a Book sent down by Allah and I am ordered to be just between you. Allah is our Lord and your Lord. We have our actions and you have your actions. There is no debate between us and you. Allah will gather us all together. He is our final destination.’ Qur'an 42:15

And many more verses showing we have to be just.

And when it is said unto them: Make not mischief in the earth, they say: We are peacemakers only. Qur'an 2:11

As humans we have no right to be like God and decide who goes through what test.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Who did God harm?
Who did He kill?

How God Killed 3 Million People In The Bible

The Prophet pbuh did mention several herbs and oil to help fight diseases.

Did he mention penicillin or insulin? They can actually treat disease states.

As humans we have no right to be like God and decide who goes through what test.

Disagree. If there is a god, we should strive to be just like Him wherever it is possible. If God kills, so should we.