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National Geographic Shoots Itself on the foot?

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
Anyone heard of this?

NOVEMBER does not appear to be a very good month for National Geographic magazine. As we write this, it is November 2004. Five years earlier, in November 1999, the editor of National Geographic, Bill Allen, published an article that proved to be one of the worst debacles in the long and storied history of the magazine. It also proved to be one of the worst fiascos in the long and storied history of evolutionary theory.
Mr. Allen published a feature article by Christopher P. Sloan titled “Feathers for T. Rex?” The article claimed to provide “a true missing link in the complex chain that connects dinosaurs to birds” (Sloan, 1999, 196[5]:100). The fossil, named Archaeoraptor liaoningensis, was discovered at Xiasanjiazi in China’s northeastern Liaoning Province, and appeared to have the body of a primitive bird with the teeth and tail of a small, terrestrial dinosaur or dromaeosaur. This definitely fit the criteria of the type of fossil that evolutionists had hoped to find to fill in some of the gaps in their popular “dinosaur-to-bird” scenario because it manifested the long, bony tail of dromaeosaurid dinosaurs along with the specialized shoulders and chest of birds.

The Associated Press quickly picked up the story, and soon all the major news networks were reporting about this “fierce turkey-sized animal with sharp claws and teeth” (Recer, 1999). Philip Currie of the Royal Tyrrell Museum in Alberta, Canada, and one of the scientists involved in the examination of Archaeoraptor for National Geographic, boasted: “We’re looking at the first dinosaur that was capable of flying” (as quoted in Recer, 1999). However, those words barely had left Currie’s mouth before the questions about this fossil started flying (no pun intended). After a short-lived period of “pomp and circumstance,” National Geographic suddenly found itself embroiled in one of the hottest scientific controversies in decades.

Continued....http://www.trueorigin.org/ng_ap01.asp
 

Linus

Well-Known Member
How many times has this happened in archaeology? Reminds me of Nebraska man, except worse. At least Nebraska man was based on a real fossil.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
The good news is that science corrected its own mistakes in the case of all these hoaxes. What other human institution is self correcting?
 

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
Sunstone said:
The good news is that science corrected its own mistakes in the case of all these hoaxes. What other human institution is self correcting?
In regards to action? The Catholic Church...:D
 

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
Actually the scientists who were studing the fossils asked National Geographic NOT to print anything about it. It hadn't been fully properly studied and there were already doubts about its validity.:tsk:

National Geographic isn't a scientific publication... they are a magazine. They wanted the big story and so they were over eager to "get the scoop". The end result was that they jumped the gun.:rolleyes:

If anything this shows how good science is... Archeoraptor never made it into a genuine Science jurnal... its two halves did get discribed as they were... seperate animals, new to science.

I wish people would stop misrepresenting this as a fault of science... it is a fault in jurnalism.:149:

wa:do
 

Super Universe

Defender of God
There was a man at the head of a church who once thought the earth was the center of the solar system. Does this invalidate all religion?

Scientists have believed for 100 years that human's and apes have a common ancestor. This they knew simply by examining the morphology of fossil evidence. Certain bones change over time, some critical (skull), some less critical, (laryngial). The morphology of ancient apes has changed over time to resemble early human form.

The missing link idea prospered in the late 1800's after the first few ancient ape fossils were discovered. Maybe there was a single link between these apes and humans, they thought. Well as it turned out, there was not just one single missing link but many and some of those were dead ends (Neanderthals).

Absolute proof? No, maybe not. But the probability for it is getting really high.

Nowadays we have much more corroborating evidence. All life that we know of is based upon DNA and RNA. 99.8% of all human's DNA is identical. 96% of a chimpanzee's DNA is identical to any human.

Evolution dissappoints people. They want God to be completely involved with us, care more for us than anyone else, intend for us and only us. Just look at all the variety of life on the earth alone.

Do you have any idea how much more is out there?

 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
painted wolf said:
Actually the scientists who were studing the fossils asked National Geographic NOT to print anything about it. It hadn't been fully properly studied and there were already doubts about its validity.:tsk:

National Geographic isn't a scientific publication... they are a magazine. They wanted the big story and so they were over eager to "get the scoop". The end result was that they jumped the gun.:rolleyes:

If anything this shows how good science is... Archeoraptor never made it into a genuine Science jurnal... its two halves did get discribed as they were... seperate animals, new to science.

I wish people would stop misrepresenting this as a fault of science... it is a fault in jurnalism.:149:


wa:do
As usual, thank you for the education.:)
 

Linus

Well-Known Member
painted wolf said:
I wish people would stop misrepresenting this as a fault of science... it is a fault in jurnalism.
Yep, especially with statements like this:

Philip Currie of the Royal Tyrrell Museum in Alberta, Canada, and one of the scientists involved in the examination of Archaeoraptor for National Geographic, boasted: “We’re looking at the first dinosaur that was capable of flying” (as quoted in Recer, 1999).

Fault in journalism indeed...
 

Abram

Abraham
painted wolf said:
I wish people would stop misrepresenting this as a fault of science... it is a fault in jurnalism.:149:

wa:do
In his National Geographic article, Simons explained how farmers in many regions of China have made a very profitable hobby of selling the fossils they find. The only problem is that these farmers realize that fossil fanciers prefer specimens assembled and suitable for display.

Journalist just run with what they can get. But the farmer who found it was where it truly begun. "Money" the true root of all evil:D
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Victor said:
Anyone heard of this? ...
What a dispicable little troll of a post. Anything that hints of less than perfection in the ongoing process of scientific enquiry is gleefully presented with sneers and snickers by the smallest and most unethical of those whose history is saturated in past antisemitism, inquisition, and superstition and current homophobia and pedophilia. If science is to be tainted by its mistakes, let the petty psycophants invite the same for their religious institutions.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Linus said:
Yep, especially with statements like this:

Philip Currie of the Royal Tyrrell Museum in Alberta, Canada, and one of the scientists involved in the examination of Archaeoraptor for National Geographic, boasted: “We’re looking at the first dinosaur that was capable of flying” (as quoted in Recer, 1999).

Fault in journalism indeed...
The "animal" didn't make it into any peer reviewed scientific journals, so where's the problem?
 

Linus

Well-Known Member
The problem lies in the fact that people in official positions, like Philip Currie, are making unfounded statements such as the one I quoted above.
 

Yerda

Veteran Member
Jayhawker Soule said:
What a dispicable little troll of a post. Anything that hints of less than perfection in the ongoing process of scientific enquiry is gleefully presented with sneers and snickers by the smallest and most unethical of those whose history is saturated in past antisemitism, inquisition, and superstition and current homophobia and pedophilia. If science is to be tainted by its mistakes, let the petty psycophants invite the same for their religious institutions.
Jay, I think you're being cruel my friend.
 

MdmSzdWhtGuy

Well-Known Member
Super Universe said:
There was a man at the head of a church who once thought the earth was the center of the solar system. Does this invalidate all religion?
Maybe not, but it is certainly a step in that direction and definately strikes a blow at biblical literalists.

B.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
It's good for all constructs by man to realise that they have faults. That is the essense of being human. That the magazine bears the brunt of the blame is only fair. Last summer I had the pleasure of diving with one of the editors of the National Geographic, and he said something that floored me: that they are excellent by accident.
 

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
Linus the statement was not a scientific declaration of the validity of the fossil. Currie was shown as far as I remember hearing it, a picuture of the chimera and was excited at the possiblility that it demonstrated. He did not personally examine it, his reaction was one of excitement. :tsk:
The problem lies with taking words spoken in the heat of world shaking moment and raising them up to absolute authority.

Currie is as human as anyone... is he no longer allowed to speak words of excitement at what seems like a find of the century, for fear that a jurnalist will overhear him? Would you expect a Biblical Archeologist to also keep so quiet if they found what looked like the tomb of Jesus' brother? Another fraud, that got oodles of press coverage?

Currie later retracted his support of the chimera when he actually saw the specimin in person. He realized when he actually got the chance to examine it that it wasn't what he had hoped, or what the photos he had been shown had led him to believe.

Archeoraptor never offically extisted... Had National Geographic not published its "scoop" on the fossils then no one would have ever heard of it. Science weeded it out long before it would have become an offical find, as is only proper. National Geographic learned its lesson and has vowed to never publish sensationalist information on fossils that are not already studied and are published or about to be published within the time of the Magazines printing.

wa:do
 

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
Jayhawker Soule said:
What a dispicable little troll of a post. Anything that hints of less than perfection in the ongoing process of scientific enquiry is gleefully presented with sneers and snickers by the smallest and most unethical of those whose history is saturated in past antisemitism, inquisition, and superstition and current homophobia and pedophilia. If science is to be tainted by its mistakes, let the petty psycophants invite the same for their religious institutions.
The fact that you implied all that from my question is troublesome.

~Victor
 

Abram

Abraham
Jayhawker Soule said:
What a dispicable little troll of a post. Anything that hints of less than perfection in the ongoing process of scientific enquiry is gleefully presented with sneers and snickers by the smallest and most unethical of those whose history is saturated in past antisemitism, inquisition, and superstition and current homophobia and pedophilia. If science is to be tainted by its mistakes, let the petty psycophants invite the same for their religious institutions.
Sounds as if your a little insecure in your beliefs there. You live on research that conforms to your beliefs. Then you use big words to sound smart... I will pray for you;)
 
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