RevOxley
But just because your god was made up, how can you hold all other gods to the same standard of being made up? Why do you believe that no god exists just because you have this standard that no god can exist? How do you know your standard is true?
Because the standard is that of evidence. The standard of evidence, by it's very nature, proves itself.
I have two questions to this
1: do you think some believers in God are logical in there faculties just as much as you are NOW if not MORE? Why or why not?
2: why were you NOT open to the possibility that there was NO God when you were believing in God? Or why was the idea of no God unfathomable to you?
1:I see what you want me to say, but I'm going to go with what I truly think here: No, probably not - at least not in the realm of gods existence. The faith standard is a weaker logical standard than the evidence one.
2:Because my mental faculties were unable to handle the idea, much like a heroin addict can't fathom life without heroin I couldn't fathom life without god - especially considering my convoluted experiences and my sense of purpose that was derived entirely from my relations with god.
Define empiricism? Or give me more elaborate details on exactly what you mean and what you would want?
Empiricism in the way that I use it here is the theory that knowledge arises from sensible experiences that cannot be explained by psychosomatic phenomena.
1: What made you realize the importance of evidence in regards to all things?
2: And why did you not realize that sooner?
1: not sure exactly...perhaps is was the overwhelming lack thereof previously?
2: I wasn't willing to.
Why shouldnt you have to tell me that?
1: do you still have a need for purpose and understanding?
2: is understanding STILL out of your scope? If yes, ok, if no, tell me your understanding?
3: have you found a NEW purpose? If so, what is it?
If no, do you believe that you HAVE a purpose? If so, what do you think it MAY be?
And if you think you have NO purpose, why do you think that?
1: Yes, but it is the purpose that I choose.
2: To some degree - yes
3:I've created a new purpose for myself - that being to improve the world for the generations that come after me.
1: are you saying you had or have a mental disease? If so, are you saying that every person who has an experience with god/angels/demons has a disease? If yes, how do you know? If no, ok.
2: your saying the physical symptoms were caused by the mental mind or emotions, but what was the mental state and emotions caused by?
1: By some standards I probably did have a mental disease...I'm not going to lay a blanket statement on everyone that has been in similar situations, but most psychiatrists would probably find a way to diagnose a condition such as that. Although I'm not sure disease is the right word...phenomena perhaps...anomaly?
2: Belief coupled with desire.
1: How do you know which is more probable? One person can say its more probable that you had a real experience and you may say it was more probable that it was illusion. So how do you know which is more probable?
2: how do you know the mind is THAT powerful to create audible voices and apparitions?
3: how do you know these angels/demons/audible voice of God was not really going on THROUGH the mind and not just BY the mind? Sort of like saying you heard a sound go in your ear, but the ear did not CAUSE the sound, it was real, it just went THROUGH the ear.
1: Occam's razor
2: All of the faculties of the eyes, ears, and other senses are processed by the very same mind. You may have to check the DSM for more information.
3:The explanation that they did is less reasonable than the explanation that they did not.
1: How did you get your faith to be bigger than others faith, when those others want the same amount of faith in order to experience these things?
2: also how do you know it was your faith that made delusional experiences and not real things happening because of your faith?
1: Show me those others.
2: I think we've already covered this.
1: Is a lack of faith the reason why they dont experience? If so, how did you get your faith to be bigger then theres?
2: what about people who did not even TRY at all to exercise faith and they experienced stuff? Those cases exist, how do you look at them?
3: how do you know it is crazy to experience angels/demons/audible voice of God?
1: Perhaps I should have said it was their belief that was lacking, not their faith (or desire) - faith being the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen takes quite the turn when you think about it as an attempt to convince ones self of things that may not be true.
2: I haven't had the opportunity to examine those situations.
3: Crazy is a psychological abnormality. This is a psychological abnormality.
It was like any other week at youth group, when, during worship, the Lord asked me to do something. As I pressed in, the Lord told me I was holding a bucket and to go around and pour something over everyone. Feeling kind of silly, I went over to Jon and told him what the Lord had told me, and he just said to do it. I went around the whole church pouring something over people, thinking that I must look crazy. When I got back to Jon, I asked what he was seeing. I was amazed when he told me that there were two big angels on stage and that there was water running over the stage down onto the whole sancuary. The water was mixed with oil, and being only ankle deep even the people lying on the ground praising the Lord were not fully submersed in it. I was going around with the bucket actually scooping up this water and oil and washing it over everyone there. Even though I looked silly in the physical, I was doing something in the spirit realm that was much more profound. All that the Lord told me was that I had a bucket, but I believed and obeyed, and after hearing what was going on the spirit realm, I am so glad I followed.
Been there, done that...
In the book he mentions a few other coroborating experiences. I myself had a few corroborating experiences. But anyway, how do you explain THOSE KIND of experiences? Remember, these kind are not like seeing an angel or hearing God, its TWO people hearing or seeing the same thing during the same experience or event. [/quote]
