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murder

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by lordjord, May 19, 2006.

  1. lordjord

    lordjord Member

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    ok so ive been reading "the good book". lord god tells noah to build an ark. the ark is to be used to save two of every creature. why is noah doing this, so god can flood the earth basically murdering everything because he realized he screwed up. im only at the beginning of the old testment doesnt this seem wrong to anyone else. im sure this wont be my last disaprovel in the bible
     
  2. Bishka

    Bishka Veteran Member

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    1 ) Are you ever going to post again after this short post?

    2 )

    "And God saw that the wickedness of the earth, and that every imagination of thoughts of his[men on earth] was only evil continually." Genesis 1:5

    We actually just talked about this in my Old Testament class. My faith believe that we were spirits in a premortal existence. If you think about it, these people were so utterly evil, and God knew that they would not change, and this evilness would continued to be perputated from generation to generation. The only righteous people were Noah and his family.

    So that the other spirits in heaven had a chance to be born into righteous families, God needed to flood the earth.

    To me that explanation makes complete sense, but I know others while TRY to find loopholes in it and say it isn't good enough. Well, for me it is good enough, y'all can think whatever you want. I have my faith and you have yours.

    3 ) God didn't screw up, man did. God knew this was going to happen, because God knows everything, but what I believe is that God gave us our free will and choice and He isn't going to mess with that unless it is completley and utterly detrimental to His plan of Salvation.

    4) Welcome!
     
  3. lordjord

    lordjord Member

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    ya ive been reading the forum for quite some time so i could understand if i dont have immediate respect. what im trying to communicate in this post is that from what i have read god has murdered everything he has created evil or not. you can say well he was riding evil and all that but when it comes down to it he murdered.

    edit: ps thanks for the welcome
     
  4. Bishka

    Bishka Veteran Member

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    I wouldn't call it murder. They murdered themselves by sinning and not following God's law. It actually says in the scriptures that the Lord gave them 120 years to repent, but they didn't. 120! That's a freaking long time if you ask me.

    I wouldn't call it murder, well, actually I would, like I said, they murdered themselves.
     
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  5. Booko

    Booko Deviled Hen

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    Oh, it's not so much respect as we've been hit by a rash of spammers recently, so you wonder if people will be sticking around or not, especially if the first thing you see is critical.

    As for murder, a point on English usage.

    Homocide is killing a human.

    Murder is unjustifiable homocide

    But most religions (and lack thereof) recognize there is such a thing as justifiable homocide. Self-defense is the most obvious case.

    Whether you think the homocide of poeple aside from Noah's family was justifiable or not is your business. I would point out to you that you can come up with some wacky ideas if you read an ancient text from a modern pov, though.

    That's not just true of religious texts. Beowulf and the Iliad are some non-religious texts you can check out to see what I mean. Ancient Greek plays are also a good example. :)
     
  6. sparc872

    sparc872 Active Member

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    A little difficult to choke down eh? Or how about the question of plant life...what happened with all of the plants? Did they get brought on the boat too? Nope, they were left rooted to the ground for a pretty darn long time while water covered them so much that no light could have gotten to them. How could they have lived that long while the earth was flooded? What did the animals eat when the water subsided? Where the heck did the water subside to?

    God doesn't want to interfere with our free will to rejecy him? He sure had no problem interfering when he flooded the entire world!
     
  7. Bishka

    Bishka Veteran Member

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    With God anything is possible.
     
  8. sparc872

    sparc872 Active Member

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    Without God, everything we observe with our own eyes can actually make sense without throwing in a deity
     
  9. Bishka

    Bishka Veteran Member

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    Your opinion not mine. Actually with God things make soooo much more sense to me. There are just some questions that are completley unanswered with God.
     
  10. sparc872

    sparc872 Active Member

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    It's all a matter of perspective. I'm glad to hear God works for you, I however, am not so lucky...well I feel lucky but again, a matter of opinion
     
  11. Adstar

    Adstar Active Member

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    Looks like you want to stick aound for a while. :)

    God being the creator of the universe owns it. He owns everything in it including us. The Creator has the right to do whatever He wants with His creation. So using the definition of murder as unlawful killing it can be seen that God is not a murderer. What we can call God is an executioner. That being One who carries out a punishment of death upon those who have transgressed the law.


    Is this the first time you have read the bible? I always advise people to read the New testament first. That being the latter half of the bible starting with the Book of Matthew.


    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     
  12. Booko

    Booko Deviled Hen

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    And yet the guy you're using for your avatar was a great admirer of Jesus and the message of the Gospel.

    I think Adstar has a point. It might be easier to start with the Gospels and then return to the Tenach. The Gospels, while still not close to our culture, is a lot closer.

    If you can get a red-letter edition of the Bible, where Jesus' words are in red, that's even better. Pay real close attention to the red stuff, and see what you think then.

    (btw, I'm not a Christian, and don't play one on tv. :) But I've read a lot of religious scriptures over the years.)
     
  13. dawny0826

    dawny0826 Mother Heathen

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    If you really want to understand God's love...I'd start with the NT...then go back and read the OT...you'll then understand WHY...but I wouldn't expect it to make any sense if you remain closed off to it...

    EDIT: I'm repeating what's already been stated...I posted before I read other responses...

    (Guess great minds think alike.:D )
     
  14. theMINI

    theMINI Member

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    My friend loaned me "The Bible for Dummies" and I found it very helpful! I've been reading the Bible for the first time recently and I am still in the Genesis. The Bible for Dummies explains everything in plain english and now I read it everytime I finish a chapter in the bible. This is taken from "Bible for Dummies":

    Understanding why God would destroy his own creation is very important.

    Shortly after the Flood (as you may have read), God gives Noah some good news and some bad news. First, the good news: "I will never again curse the Earth... nor will I destroy every living creature as I have done." (Genesis 8:21) Now the bad news: "for the inclination of the human heart is evil from its youth." In other words, the human condition hasn't changed as a result of the flood. Just as every inclination of the human heart was evil before the Flood, so it is after the Flood. So if evil still exist, why did God send the flood?

    The purpose of the flood seems to be related to god's "good news" item. The Earth was "cursed" before the Flood. Why? Just as when Cain killed his brother Abel and the earth "received his blood,", the Bible says that after Cain's time, "violence increased on the earth," and, therefore, the earth took in a lot more blood.

    By sending the flood, God not only judges humankind for its wrongdoings, He cleanses the soil of pollution. In short, God is being presented as the great Cosmic Ecologist, who cleans up the Earth from the damage caused by Sin. This motive for the Flood also explains the commandement, or mandate, God gives Noah after the flood.
     
  15. Karl R

    Karl R Active Member

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    Stories about a great flood are common to every culture in that region. According to historians who have studied these stories, the version in the old testament is one of the newer versions.

    The oldest version was a babylonian story, which had nothing to do with the hebrew god.

    I believe there was a huge flood in that region. The babylonians wrote a story about it. Later on, the hebrews heard the story and modified it into a morality tale. (If god tells you to do something that seems ridiculous, do it. It might end up making a lot of sense afterward.)

    The more I read about god, the more I realize that nobody understands god. Reading the bible won't teach the the truth about god. But it can teach you how to lead a godly life.
     
  16. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    but for 40 or 50 years before hand,they were offered the chance to get in the ark and be in a place of safety........... but they did not want it ,
     
  17. fantome profane

    fantome profane Have you read the Mueller Report?
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    I just want to say that I commend you not only for reading the bible but also for actually taking the time to think about what it says and sharing your thoughts with others. Keep at it, it can be hard slogging at times but it is well worth it. Also I would not pay too much attention to those who try to tell you what parts of the bible to read first, or to pay more attention to some parts than others:ignore: . If you read it you can decide for yourself what parts have greater significance to you.

    I am not saying that you should not listen to what other people have to say, quite the opposite. Seek out multiple commentaries, both Christian and Jewish (as well as atheist and agnostic). But decide for yourself what these books mean. And don’t let anyone tell you what to read.

    For me personally the story of Noah makes very little sense if taken literally, but if taken metaphorically it can have great significance. And I am not just talking about whether or not it is literally true. I am saying that even if you take it as a myth you still need to seek out the deeper symbolic meaning of this myth and not just read it as a story about a bunch of animals on a big boat.
     
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  18. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Welcome to Relifgious Forums, lordjord.

    I'm with Adstar on this one; your'e not best off starting reading the holy book at the beginning.

    The words were God inspired, passed down from generation to genearation by word of mouth, and finally scriptured by people who most likely misrepresented the message (either by mistake, or because of their own thoughts).

    Take up the New Testament, and concentrate on what Jesus taught. Basically, there is just one message behind his teachings "Love"; If every action in the world was carried out in the spirit of love, we would getting there..............[​IMG]
     
  19. sandy whitelinger

    sandy whitelinger Veteran Member

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    The question you might want to ponder is how God can be righteous if He allows unrepented sin to go unpunished.
     
  20. sparc872

    sparc872 Active Member

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    I 100% agree with this comment.
     
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