Most people follow Paul not Christ

[Scott1]

Wizanda,

Interesting points one and all I'm sure, but I'm confused about something:

Where do you get your views about what Christ teaches? The Bible?

Then you read the same Bible and come to believe it teaches the "lies" of Paul?

I am just wondering how in your view, the Bible can be the Word of God one chapter, then the writings of a liar and a false prophet in another when Paul teaches?

Thanks,
Scott

 

[wizanda]

Ok i never said Paul was liar
Ever since i can remeber i have known christ in the way i now describe
yet also ever since i can remember my auntie who owns a christian book shop has been telling me i am wrong and christ is god.
At the age of 11 God told me to read all the religions which i have been doing
I have studied Lao tzu since 13 i also have died and been to heaven within this life time
Now who ever said the bible is the word of god it is wisdom from god written by man and man has his own ego
If it wasnt that God had, shown me this, i would probley still been blind to it.
It was jerimiah 23 that illumanated this in the first place to me as it describes what is a fake prophet
At first i knew what christ was and was surposed to preach well before reading it
yet slowly, as my life has progressed i read parts of Paul thinking it to be the same yet i started to feel a nothingness come over my faith which has always been strong untill i read pauls writings
I had tried in my learning to stick to what christ wrote yet i kept having to look up Pauls scriptures as the churh uses them often
After reading them i didnt at first notice a contridiction and then God and christ kept poping scriptures in my head till there was that many i sudenly realised they came from two diffrent angles
My first impression was that it should have never been included and was included by the church as means to control people
Yet as time has gone on i realised that it makes logical sense that it is
you see many people dont really have a heart for god or the truth they will just follow blindly which is not what god wants
Wisdom is the key, Love is the answer, this is the door to heaven and heaven is oneness when i died, the only way to get in was oneness and accepting it with a full heart.
Now christ showed this and so him saying i am the way the truth and the light is correct if we followed him
What Saul said still fetchs in the harvest or people to heaven yet only if they really do follow christ and dont just follow blindly

 

[blood-lord14]

honestly (as a christian) my idol would be john the baptist..even though he was beheaded it was a brave act to still be in the hands of god.

 

[Bangbang]

It is common for people to hallucinate and get delusional after fasting,little sleep,and to much wine.

 

[muichimotsu]

No matter how much one insists that the Bible is the word of God, it is imperfect and every Christian can argue until they're blue in the face what the correct way to interpret the bible is. If the Bible was the word of God, would it not be somewhat agreeing with itself and not constantly arguing, which it does, even in the New Testament, Paul making Jesus different than what he was in a historical sense.

 

[Scuba Pete]

There is no disconnect between Jesus' or Paul's teaching! Surely, Paul was a sinful man (according to himself) and so it is impossible for his understanding of Jesus to be perfect! God always works through the flawed to show just how great his power really is. Yay God!

 

[michel]

There is no disconnect between Jesus' or Paul's teaching! Surely, Paul was a sinful man (according to himself) and so it is impossible for his understanding of Jesus to be perfect! God always works through the flawed to show just how great his power really is. Yay God!

Good point; from a reliability stance, Christ is the only one we know we can trust.

 

[gtrsgrls]

I could add loads to this yet scriptures do it far better and let Paul condemn him self with his own words.[/QUOTE]I think in the Bible when we see so-called "contradictions",than they are there because there is a line between them.For instance,the verse where Jesus says we are supposed to embrace sinners and help them then Paul says that we should have nothing to do with them.I personally believe that we are suppossed to be freinds with sinners,but what if that sinner is pulling you down and causing you to fall away from God.Should you keep hanging out with them the same way you had been despite the fact that they're causing you to fall away from God?I think instead of telling you where the line is the Bible lets you find it yourself.Does anybody see what I mean?Probably not.

 

[blood-lord14]

Good point; from a reliability stance, Christ is the only one we know we can trust.

what exactly made you confirm that?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I always think if you compare the teachings of Christ and Paul you end up with two different sorts of people.
Jesus did not go out of his way to upset the official view, but was still able to present his own teachings.
These were new for his time and were quite different to the views of mainstream Jews, he did this by out arguing them or shaming them.
Paul did not have that gift, but had a different task anyway, he had to interpret Jesus teachings to the gentiles.
He did this exceptionally well.
Paul had to adjust his teachings to a non Jewish audience, and was prepared to move quite a long away to do this.
He let their and his own background preferences colour his words to get converts. He tended to admonish them later to bring them more into line.
( we do this to day when teaching native peoples)
You could liken Jesus to an Idealist
and Paul to a pragmatist.

It would always be best to refer back to Jesus' teachings when reading Paul, After all Jesus is his master and it was his teachings which were being interpreted.
I always had trouble with Paul till I realised this.
Now I see what a great evangelist he was.


Terry_____________________
Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.

 

[greatcalgarian]

Ok i never said Paul was liar
Ever since i can remeber i have known christ in the way i now describe
yet also ever since i can remember my auntie who owns a christian book shop has been telling me i am wrong and christ is god.
At the age of 11 God told me to read all the religions which i have been doing
I have studied Lao tzu since 13 i also have died and been to heaven within this life time
Now who ever said the bible is the word of god it is wisdom from god written by man and man has his own ego
If it wasnt that God had, shown me this, i would probley still been blind to it.
It was jerimiah 23 that illumanated this in the first place to me as it describes what is a fake prophet
At first i knew what christ was and was surposed to preach well before reading it
yet slowly, as my life has progressed i read parts of Paul thinking it to be the same yet i started to feel a nothingness come over my faith which has always been strong untill i read pauls writings
I had tried in my learning to stick to what christ wrote yet i kept having to look up Pauls scriptures as the churh uses them often
After reading them i didnt at first notice a contridiction and then God and christ kept poping scriptures in my head till there was that many i sudenly realised they came from two diffrent angles
My first impression was that it should have never been included and was included by the church as means to control people
Yet as time has gone on i realised that it makes logical sense that it is
you see many people dont really have a heart for god or the truth they will just follow blindly which is not what god wants
Wisdom is the key, Love is the answer, this is the door to heaven and heaven is oneness when i died, the only way to get in was oneness and accepting it with a full heart.
Now christ showed this and so him saying i am the way the truth and the light is correct if we followed him
What Saul said still fetchs in the harvest or people to heaven yet only if they really do follow christ and dont just follow blindly

In his earthly life, Jesus actually only taught a limited number of people, mainly the twelve disciples mentioned in ACT. However, after his resurrection, he realized that he need some one who is more vocal and more dedicated. Hence he chose Saul/Paul to further his work. Without Paul, you will not even have the NT (including the the first 4 Gospels and ACT). Jesus teaching may be changed as in the Gnostic and many other religous thoughts during the first few hundreds year AD. It was Paul, who, after successfully debated and outsmarted the 12 disciples, that in the end, his way of interpreting Jesus teaching now forms the backbone of the current day Christianity. Remember during Paul's evangelical work, there was no official written version of the Mark, Mathew, Luke and John. So you should note that Paul never quote any of these four Gospels.

 

[muichimotsu]

Just because Paul created what is the backbone of Christianity today does not make it the absolute truth of what Jesus could have potentially taught. Paul applied some of his own personal beliefs in relation of Jesus', as he probably disagreed with him on many practices or thoughts that Jesus may have had. In other words, the Jesus we see is in many ways Paul's version of what he thought Jesus should be.

 

[Ernestine]

It Is Not Likely That Had Paul (saul) Been An Enemy Of Christ That Christ Would Have Called Him To Service As He Did. There Is No Doubt That Of The Apostles Of Christ That Peter And Paul Are Probably The Two Most Prominent.

 

[greatcalgarian]

Just because Paul created what is the backbone of Christianity today does not make it the absolute truth of what Jesus could have potentially taught. Paul applied some of his own personal beliefs in relation of Jesus', as he probably disagreed with him on many practices or thoughts that Jesus may have had. In other words, the Jesus we see is in many ways Paul's version of what he thought Jesus should be.

You are absolutely correct. It has been stated that without Paul, we would not have the present day Christanity. Just like without Luther, we would not have our present day protestant, or even without Constantine, there will not be our current day Catholic/Eastern Orthodox church.

 

[muichimotsu]

Just because Peter and Paul are prominent doesn't give them any more importance or any more understanding of what Jesus could have been teachings. Context and perspective, always important.

 

[jeffrey]

Just because Peter and Paul are prominent doesn't give them any more importance or any more understanding of what Jesus could have been teachings. Context and perspective, always important.

My understanding is that Paul and Peter didn't get along to well. They had a major disagreement.... for the life of me I can't remember what about. Somebody?

 

[Sunstone]

My understanding is that Paul and Peter didn't get along to well. They had a major disagreement.... for the life of me I can't remember what about. Somebody?

Like most major disagreements between friends, it began as a dispute over which of them had the privilege of picking up the tab at a restaurant.

 

[jeffrey]

Like most major disagreements between friends, it began as a dispute over which of them had the privilege of picking up the tab at a restaurant.

That's it! Paul got upset when he found out that Peter was going to pay. He should have ordered lobster!

 

[Scuba Pete]

Paul rebuked Peter for being a bigot! Yay Paul! Peter repented! However, Paul still showed bigotry towards women (as was the day's custom) which if he were around today he would have repented of as well. These men were HUMAN and full of sin and error. The Scriptures take great pain to show everyone's shortcomings so that we can learn from them. The important point is to imitate them AS THEY IMITATE JESUS. Let the Spirit of God guide you in this and he will.

 

[jeffrey]

Thank you for clearing that up, Doc. Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called the children of God. Matthew 5:9.