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Most people follow Paul not Christ

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
NetDoc said:
Paul rebuked Peter for being a bigot! Yay Paul! Peter repented! However, Paul still showed bigotry towards women (as was the day's custom) which if he were around today he would have repented of as well. These men were HUMAN and full of sin and error. The Scriptures take great pain to show everyone's shortcomings so that we can learn from them. The important point is to imitate them AS THEY IMITATE JESUS. Let the Spirit of God guide you in this and he will.
Amen.:clap
 

greatcalgarian

Well-Known Member
In the Gospels Peter has a remarkable position. Christ is represented as saying to him (Matthew xvi, 18): "Thou art Peter, and upon this rock [πετρα] I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven." This poor little pun on Peter's name was obviously not made by Christ. The word "church" had no meaning at all in the days of Christ and Peter. A Galilean fisherman would have asked in astonishment what this mysterious thing was which was to be built upon him. There was no such word in Aramaic. Christ would have had to say "synagogue"; and he hated synagogues. The pun belongs to a later date. There came a time when Peter and Paul quarrelled, as Paul tells us, and there was a party of Peter and a party of Paul; and some zealous Petrist, possibly of the Roman Church, got that passage interpolated into the Gospel. That crude little pun has changed the course of history and made the life-work of Christ a mockery.
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/joseph_mccabe/popes_and_church/PandC-1.html

Another angle of looking at Peter and Paul.

We shall probably never recover the true history of the beginning of Christianity, but in the Epistles and Acts we have a red glow here and there of conflict. Well did Jesus say that he came to bring into the world, not peace, but a sword. There were at once a dozen struggles: Peter or Paul, faith or good works, resurrection or no resurrection, obligation to the Jewish law or freedom. Christ had forgotten to leave instructions. His Church settled these dozen fiery controversies only to find itself locked in a terrific and protracted fight with Gnosticism. It emerged from that to confront Montanism, and Novatianism, and Ebionitism. After these came Patripassianism, Adoptionism, Modalism, Sabellianism, and Arianism. The fierce passions and bloodshed of these struggles had hardly ceased when Nestorius and Eutychius, Helvidius and Jovinian, Donatus and Pelagius raised the temperature again. Then came the Monophysites, the Monothelites ... But the list would be too long. The battle is as fierce as ever today.
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/joseph_mccabe/religious_controversy/chapter_17.html
 

greatcalgarian

Well-Known Member
Catholic story on Peter and Paul:


And Paul having come to Rome, great fear fell upon the Jews. They came together therefore to him, and exhorted him, saying: Vindicate the faith in which thou wast born; for it is not right that thou, being a Hebrew, and of the Hebrews, shouldst call thyself teacher of Gentiles, and vindicator of the uncircumcised; and, being thyself circumcised, that thou shouldst bring to nought the faith of the circumcision. And when thou seest Peter, contend against his teaching, because be has destroyed all the bulwarks of our law; for he has prevented the keeping of Sabbaths and new moons, and the holidays appointed by the law. And Paul, answering, said to them: That I am a true Jew, by this you can prove; because also you have been able to keep the Sabbath, and to observe the true circumcision; for assuredly on the day of the Sabbath God rested from all His works. We have fathers, and patriarchs, and the law. What, then, does Peter preach in the kingdom of the Gentiles? But if he shall wish to bring in any new teaching, without any tumult, and envy, and trouble, send him word, that we may see, and in your presence I shall convict him. But if his teaching be true, supported by the book and testimony of the Hebrews, it becomes all of us to submit to him.
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0815.htm
 

BM5

Member
So what is wrong with being a circumsized Hebrew ( true Hebrew that is) with exclusive first rights to Yahweh ?
But the stranger was always welcomed into our midst, those that came and accepted the true faith and the rite.

Saul of Tarsus arrived on the scene 10 years after Our Lords' Crucifixion, he had the blood of the early martyrs on his head and deserved the full measure of the law on him. The idea that Our Lord appeared to him and chose him for an apostle is nothing short of deliberate duplicity on Saul of Tarsus' part plus all his fellow conspirators. They moved in and intimidated the Apostles forcing a
split between the Law of Moses and Christianity. This breakdown of continuity scandalized great numbers of Hebrew and even Gentiles.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Has anybody else noticed how much Saul/Paul contradicts Christ and turned the word faith into religious belief

We should remember the order of things before we jump to this kind of conclusion. The letters of Paul were written before any of the Gospels, so Paul could not have purposefully contradicted Christ or turned the word of faith into religious belief. The church existed with its religion before the Gospel, as most churches who received the first Gospel traditions received it from Paul and were founded by Paul. The Gospels are, in many ways, the proto-orthodox official interpretation of Paul. We cannot look at the Gospels and say, "here is a religion-free faith" because it was written for a church that had been established for up to 50++ years. It was written by the church and for the church.
 

Yasin

Member
Scott1 said:
Hello and welcome Wizanda.

You seem to be forgetting something: Christ chose Paul.

Without Paul, our faith would still be a small sect of the Jewish faith. Paul opened up (by the power of the Holy Spirit) the faith to Gentiles.

Without Paul, Christianity would be reserved for those like me: Circumsized Jews.

Just some food for thought.

Peace be with you,
Scott
Hello Scott,
May i just state one thing Jesus himself said "The servent is not greater then the master" so who gave Paul the authority to state the following:
1 Corinthians 7:12
1 Corinthians 7:18
1 Corinthians 7:25

Respectively, Yasin:bounce
 
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