Mormon missionaries

[Katzpur]

Now one of my bosses has turned out to be LDs and an "ex christian" at that. I had a conversation with her in which she went on to tell me how she came to believe the book of mormon was the truth.

First off, if she is LDS, she's not an ex-Christian. What makes you think she no longer believes that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and her Savior?

Well, I have never had to deal with a missionary before, could anyone tell me what to expect from them? I know my bible very well but is there a particular methodolgy they adopt like the JWs do (end times)?

In all liklihood, the missionaries will not adopt any specific "methodology." They generally teach by the Spirit, which is the only way to teach. Unless you turn the discussion into a debate, it probably won't ever become one. They will present specific material and invite you to express your opinion on it. The may raise questions for you to think about, and they will definitely want to pray with you and encourage you to pray about the message they leave with you. It should all be rather painless.

I am happy to talk to them and I will try to convert them to the truth in the process.

Clearly, your mind is made up. I don't even know why you're wasting their time. It would be highly unlikely that they will condemn you for feeling as you do or try to out-argue you. All in all, I suspect that the experience will be a big disappointment for everybody.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

You will find they are the most polite people who ever knocked on your door.

I think they are always pleased to find that some one has a strong faith.
They will say what they have been taught in a very professional manner .
they will leave with out protest when asked.

The first couple that called at my door were very new to their task and were easily put out of their stride by questions, and sometimes had difficulty getting back on track.
More experienced ones take that in their stride.

Any which way you will learn something if you ask questions.

Don't expect answers with the expertise of Katzpur though

 

[Katzpur]

You will find they are the most polite people who ever knocked on your door.

Awww, Terry, you're too kind.

I think they are always pleased to find that some one has a strong faith.
They will say what they have been taught in a very professional manner .
they will leave with out protest when asked.

The first couple that called at my door were very new to their task and were easily put out of their stride by questions, and sometimes had difficulty getting back on track.
More experienced ones take that in their stride.

I don't know how long ago it was that you were visited by the LDS missionaries, but if it's been a long time, things have probably changed quite a bit. When my husband was a missionary forty-five or so years ago, he had a script which had to be memorized verbatim. He asked the questions and the people he was teaching gave their answers. If they gave the "wrong" answers (i.e. the answers that didn't lead the discussion in the direction the missionaries wanted it to go), the question was rephrased. Eventually, the person being taught would give the "right" answer, and the conversation could proceed. A lot has changed since then. The missionary discussions are nowhere near as "rigid" as they used to be. The missionaries are taught to teach what the Spirit prompts them to teach, while covering certain material, of course. But there are no longer "wrong" answers or a prescribed format in which everything must be presented. I think it's much better the way it's done nowadays.

Any which way you will learn something if you ask questions.

I've got to disagree here. People who are determined not to learn, seldom do. They merely ask questions and try to formulate their next argument while you are answering.

Don't expect answers with the expertise of Katzpur though

Unfortunately I have a few years on them. We all know how wise old people are. (Very sweet of you, though, Terry!)

 

[porkchop]

Ok, it was me, not *paul* who said itd be fun. Seriously, do you still not get me on here? I was being sarcastic, my usual way, of course its not gonna be fun. I was the one who invited them to come back cause we were busy and i think its rude to say go away so i said they could come another time, we'd be happy to speak to them, i do hope it goes well, me and paul like to discuss religion with anyone so, in that case, maybe it will be fun! Will keep you posted!
Hey, were'd all the prodestants go???!!!!

 

[*Paul*]

First off, if she is LDS, she's not an ex-Christian. What makes you think she no longer believes that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and her Savior?

Did you notice I used these : " ". They were her words not mine.

Clearly, your mind is made up. I don't even know why you're wasting their time.

It is an opportunity for me to try to help them.

 

[Katzpur]

Did you notice I used these : " ". They were her words not mine.

Actually, I didn't notice them; Thanks for pointing that out. Nevertheless, I can assure you that no convert to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believes that he or she left Christianity to become LDS. If she used the phrase "ex-Christian" it was obviously tongue-in-cheek or because she knows that you don't believe she is still a Christian.

It is an opportunity for me to try to help them.

Well, it strikes me as entirely disingenuous. Do the missionaries know that you just want to argue with them and that you are "already forming your arguments"? These young men are devoting two years of their lives to sharing the gospel with people who actually have an interest in hearing it and who aren't just looking for a fight. What you are doing is self-serving. Period.

 

[Polaris]

Well, I have never had to deal with a missionary before, could anyone tell me what to expect from them?

That will depend to a certain extent on the missionaries. While the message they bring and the spirit in which they bring it is the same, the method in which they deliver their message and respond to your "questions" will vary considerably.

Inexperienced missionaries may have a hard time answering difficult questions and will likely leave with a plain and simple testimony of what they believe to be true. More experienced ones will attempt to address your concerns until they see that you have no desire to hear them out with an open mind. If they see that you are only interested in catching them in some trap like the Pharisies often did with Christ, they likely will not humor you and will respectfully end the discussion. Missionaries are taught not to bible-bash (get into heated bible debates) because the spirit of contention is not compatible with the spirit of God. That being said, there are however missionaries that do engage in bible debates that are profitable to no one.

I realize you aren't going into this with the purpose of investigating the LDS church, but I hope you'll have enough courtesy to at least hear them out with somewhat of an open mind. As long as you remain respectful and sincere they will make an honest effort to answer your questions and help you feel the spirit of God. Remember they're 19-20 year old young men who are selflessly volunteering their time and doing this work out of love.

 

[jonny]

I agree that a lot depends on the personality of the missionaries. I hated "bible bashing" and wouldn't get into it. When people would start "testifying" to me, I'd just keep my mouth shut until they finished, say "thank you," and continue. I had one companion who really liked bible bashing. I actually fell asleep during one disussion I was so bored (it ended up going on for hours, so give me a break). The guy was getting his doctrate in philosophy and analyzed every word we said. I could barely speak german at the time, so I think he was analyzing my word choice way too much.

In any case, if people were hostile towards the church or its message, we rarely ever returned again. We were too busy to waste our time.

I would ask the missionaries about the apostasy quote. They'll probably be impressed that you actually read the book. I'm impressed that, considering how "wrong" we are, that was the only thing in the entire book that you were horribly offended by.

 

[*Paul*]

Actually, I didn't notice them; Thanks for pointing that out. Nevertheless, I can assure you that no convert to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believes that he or she left Christianity to become LDS. If she used the phrase "ex-Christian" it was obviously tongue-in-cheek or because she knows that you don't believe she is still a Christian.

Actually I agree, no mormon is an ex-christian, I would never call anybody an ex-christian.

Well, it strikes me as entirely disingenuous.

I can assure you it is not, I have bettwer things to do in my life than to get into fruitless arguements.

Do the missionaries know that you just want to argue with them and that you are "already forming your arguments"?

They haven't spoken to me yet, by my arguements I simply mean my objections to the things written in the book, not my ways to get into an unfriendly disagreement. As I said before you can be absolutely assured that I will be warm and welcoming. My only intent is to share the gospel of reconciliation, to answer their questions and to open the scriptures with them and get them to think on the things God has spoken and wheteher they are valid or not, this I will do with a heart full of love, do not doubt it, if I felt less for them I would not bother but would spend my time watching a movie with my son and wife or something.

These young men are devoting two years of their lives to sharing the gospel with people who actually have an interest in hearing it and who aren't just looking for a fight.

They will not get a fight, they will if they are willing get a bible study and a challenge and a house they are welcome in.

What you are doing is self-serving. Period.

I am a servant of Jesus Christ, it is His gospel I will share and to Him all the glory will go.

You seem to want to think the worst of me Katzpur and portray me in the most negative light possible, I believe you do this to make me appear unloving and judgemental to put others off the doctrines I espouse and exalt mormonism as true Christianity full of love and acceptance. I do not blame you for this and I forgive you from the heart.

 

[*Paul*]

I realize you aren't going into this with the purpose of investigating the LDS church, but I hope you'll have enough courtesy to at least hear them out with somewhat of an open mind.

I always do but nothing I have ever heard or read, of all the religious texts I have read and all the apologists I have listened to has done anything to convince me otherwise. They simply lack the Spirit of God in their words, that is the best way I can describe it. The hardest time I have had was after listening to a Roman Catholic with the surname of Fastigi, he was good I must admit but the word of God dispels all doubts.

As long as you remain respectful and sincere they will make an honest effort to answer your questions

That will not even be an issue.

and help you feel the spirit of God.

No one can do that.

Remember they're 19-20 year old young men who are selflessly volunteering their time and doing this work out of love.

And I truly respect them for it, I'm sure they will be nervous and exited. I hold the same respect for Jehovahs witnesses and I have a lot of time for people who are willing to go door to door for their church.
My motives are no less loving for I want them to be reconciled to God that is all I want, I am constrained by my love for God as I think of the Joy it brings Him when a sinner repents and by my love for them when I think of the release and joy and lasting peace they can know through Justification.
I am not going to get them to join my church or anything, just to be reconciled to God that is all I am going to do.

 

[Special Revelation]

Just lately I am having a lot of conversations with Mormons outside of RF. My wife's best friend is a Mormon and her husband has been trying to challenge me on my faith and show me different things from the LDS Church to convince me.

Now one of my bosses has turned out to be LDs and an "ex christian" at that. I had a conversation with her in which she went on to tell me how she came to believe the book of mormon was the truth.

Two days later (today) I have had two mormon missionaries at my door by strange coincidence and after a brief chat with my wife they are coming back next Sunday and have left us with a book on the restoration.

Well, I have never had to deal with a missionary before, could anyone tell me what to expect from them? I know my bible very well but is there a particular methodolgy they adopt like the JWs do (end times)?

Any help would be appreciated. I am happy to talk to them and I will try to convert them to the truth in the process.

I apologize in advance if this sounds rude and disrespectful. It is not intended to be.

After I read this, I started to laugh...Maybe Paul is predestined to be a Mormon. See what happens when you reject John Calvin...LOL.

I spoke to tons of Mormon missionaries in my life. I also had many Mormon friends who I used to surf with as I grew up in my teens and early twenties. Have fun Paul. Let me know how you interpret the book of 2nd John? I always debated in my garage in the light of 2nd John.

My wife used to serve lemonade and cookies to the Mormon missionaries while we debated. I have often thought of letting the air out of their bike tires so they wouldn't run off when things got tough. Tell your sweet wife that she can serve Coke and Pepsi... but don't offer the Mormon Christians any coffee.

 

[Special Revelation]

On a very serious note: Many of the young Mormon missionaries were brought up in a Mormon Christian household. Many never really heard the gospel of God proclaimed in the Bible alone. What a wondeful opportunity you have Paul.

I knew of several Mormon missionaries who attended a Bible Study in the book of Romans at a Calvary Chapel church. They went there to enlighten the Christian men at the Bible Study. One of the Mormons got converted to our understanding of Christianity during the study.

Paul, share the truth in love by proclaiming the Gospel revealed in the book of Romans. Pray and see it as a divine appointment by our great Triune God!

 

[*Paul*]

After I read this, I started to laugh...Maybe Paul is predestined to be a Mormon. See what happens when you reject John Calvin...LOL.

Lol, i think the term reject would be meaningless because what really happened would be God chose for me.

I spoke to tons of Mormon missionaries in my life. I also had many Mormon friends who I used to surf with as I grew up in my teens and early twenties. Have fun Paul. Let me know how you interpret the book of 2nd John? I always debated in my garage in the light of 2nd John.

I know the verse you mean before I even look but I always look at it in light of who it was addressed to:
2nd John 1:1 The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth;
I assume it is a widow or a woman married to a non-christian as the husband is not mentioned. I believe John (inspired by God of course) is protecting her with his advice because she has no spiritual male head of the house to fight the doctrinal battle against the deceivers in verse 7, the woman (eve) was first decieved you see. This goes by extension to all christian women who have men away from home too. This verse holds more weight with me in relation to sharing the gospel:

1st Corinthians 9:19-23 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

Do you think I could be right? It would be a pity to turn away people who God had preordained that we should meet so I could share the gospel with them.That is the way I see it but the bible is our authority in the end and must have the final say.

My wife used to serve lemonade and cookies to the Mormon missionaries while we debated. I have often thought of letting the air out of their bike tires so they wouldn't run off when things got tough.

Hahaha, I can just imagine it. Lol. You've really made me chuckle there. Shall I make thse ones take their shoes off because they are on sanctified ground and hide them?

The cokes all mine, i will not share it. :no:

 

[*Paul*]

On a very serious note: Many of the young Mormon missionaries were brought up in a Mormon Christian household. Many never really heard the gospel of God proclaimed in the Bible alone. What a wondeful opportunity you have Paul.

I understand that and I am taking it very seriously, these things don't happen by accident. I had good success with a young JW not too long ago, but I think they stopped him from coming again after a while, now none of them will visit me but I think enough was said to really make him think, I could see it in his eyes too.

I knew of several Mormon missionaries who attended a Bible Study in the book of Romans at a Calvary Chapel church. They went there to enlighten the Christian men at the Bible Study. One of the Mormons got converted to our understanding of Christianity during the study.

Praise God for that.

Paul, share the truth in love by proclaiming the Gospel revealed in the book of Romans. Pray and see it as a divine appointment by our great Triune God!

Yes this has been on my mind very much brother, i repsect your advice as a much elder brother in the Lord. (and the flesh).

 

[Special Revelation]

Use the double-edged Sword!​

​

The Sword of the Spirit in Action!​

Hebrews 4:12:​

For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart
​

 

[Katzpur]

You seem to want to think the worst of me Katzpur and portray me in the most negative light possible, I believe you do this to make me appear unloving and judgemental to put others off the doctrines I espouse and exalt mormonism as true Christianity full of love and acceptance. I do not blame you for this and I forgive you from the heart.

If I have genuinely misinterpreted your intentions, you have my sincere apology.

 

[Special Revelation]

If I have genuinely misinterpreted your intentions, you have my sincere apology.

Can we be friends too?

 

[Katzpur]

Can we be friends too?

I am willing to be friends with anyone on this forum who will treat me courteously and who will not misrepresent my beliefs. If that includes you, then of course we can be friends.

 

[*Paul*]

Hey Brother Paul,

Since you created this post and asked for my assistance, I have met with numerous Mormon missionaries in my days.

I thought you may have, this is the reason why I asked this on this forum, in England the Mormon chuirch is not big at all, especially not in part of the country, one rarely gets to have a spiritual discussion with a mormon, but there are a lot of Americans on here who I would imagine are much more familiar with missionaries and might want to give me some tips.

Please note the last few postings that I have had with LDS Nutshell. Mormon missionaries will try to blend words and terminology that appear to mean the same things. You will need to define your words and understand the semantics game.

Thanks Rev, I have a video sermon by a brother speaking on justification and he mentioned the same thing, I have never fogotten that lesson as it can be very deceptive.

Have fun Paul with your divine appointment.

Please don't mention fun in the protestant dir section.

Please let me know how it went.

I intend to, we should discuss it if you have the time, maybe by private message though as it seems to be a volatile subject.

If you don't offend the missionaries, you can probably stretch your meetings over several days.

I don't think they'll be offended by me, but you never know, sometimes one word out of place gives people a stick to beat you with.

Please be aware of their dietary restrictions when offering refreshments. If you want to loosen up the conversation, asked the Mormon missionaries about their holy underwear.

:slap:

Also, they will try to have you and Beth address them as Elder so and so. It's a power play on their part.

They are not my elders,

It is probably wise to NOT ALLOW THE MISSIONARIES to lead you in prayer. Paul...if you feel comfortable to pray with the missionaries, you need to lead in prayer.

I don't think I could with a clear conscience.

Have fun

Shhh! Stop it, someone will hear you.

 

[Polaris]

Mormon missionaries will try to blend words and terminology that appear to mean the same things. You will need to define your words and understand the semantics game.

Really, Mormon missionaries purposefully try to blend words and terminology? Wow I missed that memo when I was a missionary.

Also, they will try to have you and Beth address them as Elder so and so. It's a power play on their part.

Mormon missionaries refer to each other as Elder as part of some display of dominance and power? I guess I missed the boat there too.

It is probably wise to NOT ALLOW THE MISSIONARIES to lead you in prayer. Paul...if you feel comfortable to pray with the missionaries, you need to lead in prayer.

Don't worry. Most missionaries recognize the fact that they are the guests in your home and will allow you to conduct or lead the prayer as you choose. However, I'm curious... what are you afraid of? Do Mormon missionaries pronounce curses in their prayers that have been known to effect the people they teach negatively?