Moral Values vs Social Values

[clirus]

Moral Values vs Social Values

Many democrats are wondering why their values were rejected in the 2004 election. My opinion is that the liberal democrats had Social Values and not Moral Values. One might think Social Values and Moral Values are the same, but the Social Values of abortion and homosexuality are absolutely opposite to Moral Values as defined in the Bible. There are many other liberal democratic issues where Social Values are not consistent with Moral Values.

One could think the liberal democrats based their Social Values on Moral Values, but I think the liberal democrats based their Social Values on where they could get the most votes.

Although Social Values of the liberal democrats was rejected by a 51% to 48% margin, the liberal policies of the American judicial system was rejected by a 70% to 30% margin. The liberal democrats got caught up in a backlash against the liberal judicial system. The Supreme Court, the ninth circuit court of appeals in California and Chief Justice Margaret Marshall of Massachusetts had more to do with the election than John Kerry.

Blackstone's Commentaries on the Laws of England states, "THIS law of nature, being co-eval with mankind and dictated by God himself, is of course superior in obligation to any other. It is binding over all the globe, in all countries, and at all times: no human laws are of any validity, if contrary to this; and such of them as are valid derive all their force, and all their authority, mediately or immediately, from this original."

The key point here is that law was dictated by God himself, it is superior to all other law, and that no laws contrary to the laws dictated by God are valid. A judicial system based on God's law is valid and all others are invalid.

The democratic party had better not look to Bill and Hillary Clinton for leadership. I cannot speak for all Christians but I hate Bill Clinton. The Clinton family represents the total opposite to Moral Values. I also hate New York City and Boston, Massachusetts because they are the epicenter of liberal philosophy. The word hate is appropriate because Christians should hate sin.

Liberal democrats need to accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, then they will understand the difference between Social Values and Moral Values. America needs a revival where the people return to Jesus Christ.

 

[Jaymes]

I cannot speak for all Christians but I hate Bill Clinton.

Emphasis mine.

Nice Christian values, you lose.

I'll type more when I'm not about to go to school.

 

[Green Gaia]

Liberal democrats need to accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior...

While I disgreed with most, if not all, of your post, I'm only going to comment on this part because the rest is radical right wing drivel that's not worth my time commenting on. However, we do not tolerate any form of proselytizing on this forum. Your comment is out of line. If you are only here to make converts then you have come to the wrong forum.

 

[jewscout]

Moral Values vs Social Values

The key point here is that law was dictated by God himself, it is superior to all other law, and that no laws contrary to the laws dictated by God are valid. A judicial system based on God's law is valid and all others are invalid.

The democratic party had better not look to Bill and Hillary Clinton for leadership. I cannot speak for all Christians but I hate Bill Clinton. The Clinton family represents the total opposite to Moral Values. I also hate New York City and Boston, Massachusetts because they are the epicenter of liberal philosophy. The word hate is appropriate because Christians should hate sin.

Liberal democrats need to accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, then they will understand the difference between Social Values and Moral Values. America needs a revival where the people return to Jesus Christ.

When you talk about the Law of G-d clirus which set are you talking about? G-d made several covenants with man. And i think you'll need to get together with you brothers to figure out which denomination your going to follow.

Hate is a very strong word clirus. For some reason i thought christians were supposed to love the sinner. You should love the Clintons and simply point out what you believe is wrong in their ACTIONS. Besides i always sort of invisioned Jesus as being a loving figure.

And one can not return to a place they never were before. What will you do with all of the athiests, jews, agonstics, muslims, pagans, wiccans, buddhists, hindus, and those Christians who don't follow the OFFICIAL brand of christianity??????
Build camps? "relocate"?

 

[Sunstone]

The last thing this great nation needs is to become a theocracy. You would have us turn into a nation like many of those in the Middle East, Clirus.

 

[robtex]

clirus I noticed you made a lot of broad claims but didn't provide any supporting evidence. Could you please explain the following:

if mans law is superceeded by god's law and the bible law is the way to run a nation...than why in the last 2000 years has a christian nation never been successfully developed?

if the law was dictated by god himself as you claim, an god is omnipresent...than why did he fail to dictate it to everyone (i must have missed his email).

which specfic laws to you are particulary better than our current laws...its an abstract point and non debatealbe at this point.

If God teaches you to hate (various states and liberals) why do you

1) want to befriend those you hate
2) expect us to want to hate as much as you do?
3) live in a secular nation is you reject the idea of secular politics

in turn why would we

1) trust someone who openly hates us
2) defy our goverment by accepting gods laws and rejecting us laws, as you stated
3) blindly hate entire states based on electorial votes?

 

[The Voice of Reason]

You'll do well on here clirus - you've come to the right place.

We welcome people with closed minds, people that hate (baselessly), people that prostelytize, people that think only they know the Truth, and people that are intolerant (to the Nth degree) of anyone that does not agree with them (commonly called bigots). Moronic statements are embraced with blind fervor here, and no one will ask you to defend any outrageous statements you choose to make.

No wait - that's the other forum - ReligiousZealots.com.

My fault, forgot which site we were on. Never mind.

TVOR

 

[Jaymes]

My opinion is that the liberal democrats had Social Values and not Moral Values.

My opinion is that religious right of the Republicans manipulate religion to sway the vote and don't actually believe a bit of the bull they spout, but it's just that--an opinion. No more or less valid than yours.

One might think Social Values and Moral Values are the same, but the Social Values of abortion and homosexuality are absolutely opposite to Moral Values as defined in the Bible.

I've got a little revelation for you.

You ready for it?

Hold on to your seat, 'cause here it comes...

We're not all Christians, and we don't all follow the Bible.

Was that a gasp of shock and amazement I heard?

One could think the liberal democrats based their Social Values on Moral Values, but I think the liberal democrats based their Social Values on where they could get the most votes.

Because gays make up such a huge chunk of the population. I mean, you don't want to cross those gays. They might vote you out of office or something! That incredible 10% (if that)...

The key point here is that law was dictated by God himself, it is superior to all other law, and that no laws contrary to the laws dictated by God are valid. A judicial system based on God's law is valid and all others are invalid.

That's odd, because stoning people to death for adultery is dictated by God, but it's not legal. Funny how things work out, isn't it?

The democratic party had better not look to Bill and Hillary Clinton for leadership.

And why not? Oh no, he got a blowjob!

I normally hate sayings, but I'll borrow this little one: Nobody died when Clinton lied.

I cannot speak for all Christians but I hate Bill Clinton.

I cannot emphasize this enough. I thought Jesus preached that to be angry was the same as murder? I thought Christians weren't supposed to hate everyone?

Maybe I was mistaken, but I thought Jesus' core message was of love and compassion, even to those you disagree with?

The Clinton family represents the total opposite to Moral Values. I also hate New York City and Boston, Massachusetts because they are the epicenter of liberal philosophy. The word hate is appropriate because Christians should hate sin.

First, have you even ever BEEN there? I have. Let me tell you... gays aren't having mad sex in the streets, and people aren't prancing around celebrating abortion.

You know what's really weird? It's almost like they're normal. Wow, shocking concept, huh?

And I thought Christians were supposed to hate the sin, not the sinner? Is living in New York a sin now? Is that your justification for hating New York? (On a sidenote, I find hating a piece of land absurd.)

Liberal democrats need to accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, then they will understand the difference between Social Values and Moral Values. America needs a revival where the people return to Jesus Christ.

First off: Don't tell me who I do and don't need to believe in and accept. Period. No ifs, ands, or buts.

Second: Does Jesus magically float down from heaven and give you a chart of Moral vs Social values when you're saved?

Third: We. Are. Not. A. Theocracy.

What America needs is Tolerance, and they need it quick.

 

[robtex]

jensa you sound angry. If you are why did this post get to you ? just curious

 

[Jaymes]

I apologize. I am angry. I am just sick of the use of 'liberal' as an insult. That, and the insistence that everyone has to accept Jesus and that only Jesus can fix America frustrates me.

Have we really so little faith in ourselves? Do we really need a god to fix everything? Have we messed up that badly?

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Clirus -

I'm just curious. What would your reaction be if the Muslims in America made the statements you did, substituting "Allah" for "God"?
My guess is that you would want to revolt in the street - denouncing the fact that they wanted to force their religion down your throat, etc.
Man oh man, that would be ridiculous, wouldn't it? The nerve of those people! Trying to tell you how to think, what is right, and what is wrong!! Why, I'd take up arms against them - I'd show them - I'd kill 'em all.
Ah yes - Jesus Christ would want me to do exactly that.
Marching in the army of God.

TVOR

PS - I just got an email from God - he said to tell you that he'd get the message to the rest of us from now on without using you as an intermediary.

 

[maggie2]

What an obnixious post! It is because of such bigotry that we have the problems we do. No compassion, just naked hate and loathing...hum...that's a really Christian way to be, isn't it? This is the kind of ignorance that scares me. How do you even begin to dialogue with someone who is so convinced of their righteous beliefs?

 

[robtex]

What an obnixious post! It is because of such bigotry that we have the problems we do. No compassion, just naked hate and loathing...hum...that's a really Christian way to be, isn't it? This is the kind of ignorance that scares me. How do you even begin to dialogue with someone who is so convinced of their righteous beliefs?

better to talk it out than not to. Post wasn't designed to make hate or instant digust. He was just projecting his opinion. I would rather sit and talk things out with those different than me than us both hiding our thoughts.

 

[linwood]

You guys don`t actually expect him to reply...do you?

That would require examining his point of view.

We know he isn`t capable of that.

 

[skills101]

One could think the liberal democrats based their Social Values on Moral Values, but I think the liberal democrats based their Social Values on where they could get the most votes.

And that's why the democrats lost the vote, right??? You're opinion is interesting, especially since the man the Republicans support is the one who became "born again" right when he got into politics.

Although Social Values of the liberal democrats was rejected by a 51% to 48% margin, the liberal policies of the American judicial system was rejected by a 70% to 30% margin. The liberal democrats got caught up in a backlash against the liberal judicial system. The Supreme Court, the ninth circuit court of appeals in California and Chief Justice Margaret Marshall of Massachusetts had more to do with the election than John Kerry.

Perhaps you should understand that the American Judicial System is made up of only nine justices.

The key point here is that law was dictated by God himself, it is superior to all other law, and that no laws contrary to the laws dictated by God are valid. A judicial system based on God's law is valid and all others are invalid.

Total nonsense. I don't believe in God nor do I accept his "values."

mor·al (môr

l, m

r

-)
adj.

1. Of or concerned with the judgment of the goodness or badness of human action and character: moral scrutiny; a moral quandary.
2. Teaching or exhibiting goodness or correctness of character and behavior: a moral lesson.
3. Conforming to standards of what is right or just in behavior; virtuous: a moral life.
4. Arising from conscience or the sense of right and wrong: a moral obligation.
5. Having psychological rather than physical or tangible effects: a moral victory; moral support.
6. Based on strong likelihood or firm conviction, rather than on the actual evidence: a moral certainty.

Please point out where it mentions God or the Bible.

The democratic party had better not look to Bill and Hillary Clinton for leadership. I cannot speak for all Christians but I hate Bill Clinton. The Clinton family represents the total opposite to Moral Values. I also hate New York City and Boston, Massachusetts because they are the epicenter of liberal philosophy. The word hate is appropriate because Christians should hate sin.

Once again, morals of a country should not be determined by a specific religion whatsoever because not everyone in that country believes in that religion.

Liberal democrats need to accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, then they will understand the difference between Social Values and Moral Values. America needs a revival where the people return to Jesus Christ.

That revival is the proof that Jesus is the Son of God and that God exists. Do that, and you'll find thousands turning to Christianity. Until then, pick up a book and read.

 

[clirus]

Prevention vs Cure

The Bible favors prevention versus cure. The Republican party favors prevention and the democratic party favors cure. Abortion is a cure to the problem of sexual immorality. Funding for AIDS is the cure for the sin of homosexuality. Welfare is the cure for the sin of pornography that lead to the illegitimate children that leads to the need for welfare.

Republicans and Christians want to prevent people from getting to where they need abortion, AIDS cures and welfare. Abortion, AIDS and welfare are very painful to the people involved.

Cure requires a big government to tax the people so the government can provide money to the afflicted. Even the word cure is misleading because there is never a cure for the knowledge of an abortion, there is no cure for AIDS, and the slavery of welfare is horrible. Life can be sustained, but it is not the life Jesus Christ wants for mankind.

Prevention requires a person accept Jesus Christ because the self restraint required to resist the temptation of Satan is difficult. But the good news is that Jesus is available to all those who will accept Him.

Now I ask you, which is loving your neighbor as yourself, prevention or cure?

I consider one of the worst acts of not loving your neighbor is bringing a child into the world knowing that the child cannot be financially supported. Examples of this are the parents that know the child will end up on welfare or the parents that know they have a genetic condition that will require government or insurance funds to support the child. The expectation that others should provide for their own children is nothing less than stealing.

The Bible does not condone those who do not provide for themselves. I Timothy 5:8 says, "But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel." II Thessalonians 3:l0 says, "For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat." Epheasians 2-3 says, "Honour thy father and mother; with is the first commandment with promise; That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth."

The people needing the most are women, children and the elderly (parents). God's perfect provision for that need is the family structure of a man, woman and children. Satan's greatest success would be to eliminate the family concept. Men are being attacked with pornography, women are being deceived about God's will for them and children are being taught that the Bible is not relevant or untrue. Most government welfare programs are directed to women, children and the elderly which is an attack on the family structure. I believe that God would provide if the government got out of welfare.

The greatest hindrances to Christianity is the liberal news media and the liberal judicial system. The judicial system is attempting to systematically eliminate America's Christian Heritage. The judicial system must be changed. No Christian should watch any CBS news show on the national or local level until Dan Rather has been removed. Dan Rather must be removed for using forged documents to influence a presidential election and the national and local news shows must be avoided because they did not remove Dan Rather.

 

[skills101]

Abortion is a cure to the problem of sexual immorality.

That statement made no sense. Abortion is not a cure. Pregnancy is not a disease. Sex is not immoral.

Funding for AIDS is the cure for the sin of homosexuality.

Homosexuality is not wrong. And how dare you say that AIDS only pertains to homosexuals? You're obviously very uneducated.

Welfare is the cure for the sin of pornography that lead to the illegitimate children that leads to the need for welfare.

Where do you get welfare from pornography?

por·nog·ra·phy (pôr-n

g

r

-f

)
n.

1. Sexually explicit pictures, writing, or other material whose primary purpose is to cause sexual arousal.
2. The presentation or production of this material.
3. Lurid or sensational material: “Recent novels about the Holocaust have kept Hitler well offstage [so as] to avoid the... pornography of the era” (Morris Dickstein).

Where do you get the idea that viewing pornography leads to illegitamite children?

Republicans and Christians want to prevent people from getting to where they need abortion, AIDS cures and welfare. Abortion, AIDS and welfare are very painful to the people involved.

So do the Democrats. Open your conservative blinds and see that you're not the only one who wants healthy lifestyles.

Cure requires a big government to tax the people so the government can provide money to the afflicted. Even the word cure is misleading because there is never a cure for the knowledge of an abortion, there is no cure for AIDS, and the slavery of welfare is horrible. Life can be sustained, but it is not the life Jesus Christ wants for mankind.

So does prevention. So does the War in Iraq. SO DOES PUBLIC EDUCATION. So, should we not do it?

Prevention requires a person accept Jesus Christ because the self restraint required to resist the temptation of Satan is difficult.

I use birth control, that's a prevention. I watch my finances, that's a prevention. I have not, however, accepted Jesus Christ.

I consider one of the worst acts of not loving your neighbor is bringing a child into the world knowing that the child cannot be financially supported. Examples of this are the parents that know the child will end up on welfare or the parents that know they have a genetic condition that will require government or insurance funds to support the child. The expectation that others should provide for their own children is nothing less than stealing.

I agree, that's one of the most stupid thing a person can do willingly. But what happens if birth control fails? Even married couples don't always have the finance to raise their child. But if they have sex, and the condom breaks, what should they do?

God's perfect provision for that need is the family structure of a man, woman and children. Satan's greatest success would be to eliminate the family concept.

A family structure is not perfect. Maybe you haven't heard of abuse, drugs, alcohol, divorce, etc.... All things that occur and ruin families.

Men are being attacked with pornography, women are being deceived about God's will for them and children are being taught that the Bible is not relevant or untrue.

Once again, pornography, in my opinion, is not a bad thing; If you could please provide justification that pornography leads to welfare issues... It is not an attack. And in what way are women supposedly being taught that the Bible is not true? I'm a man, so there's an invisible bond holding me to God, yes?

The greatest hindrances to Christianity is the liberal news media and the liberal judicial system. The judicial system is attempting to systematically eliminate America's Christian Heritage. The judicial system must be changed.

Howard Stern is systematically being eliminated by the FCC. So why is it that I've heard no Republican say that the FCC should be changed?

No Christian should watch any CBS news show on the national or local level until Dan Rather has been removed. Dan Rather must be removed for using forged documents to influence a presidential election and the national and local news shows must be avoided because they did not remove Dan Rather.

Prove to me that it was used to influence the election. Justify it. As far as the American public is concerned, it was a mistake.

 

[Pah]

Many democrats are wondering why their values were rejected in the 2004 election. My opinion is that the liberal democrats had Social Values and not Moral Values. One might think Social Values and Moral Values are the same, but the Social Values of abortion and homosexuality are absolutely opposite to Moral Values as defined in the Bible. There are many other liberal democratic issues where Social Values are not consistent with Moral Values.

There is no difference between social and moral values - one is another label for the other. The differnce you are reaching for is in the scope of the community in which your values apply. Your values are active only in the subset of the larger American society. An insistance in a distinction is merely the arrogance of a cramped fundementaist mindest.

-pah-

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Hey Clirus -

You should be elated that I don't have the power that Rex Admin or the moderators do. You have now posted two consecutive messages that have done nothing but prostelityze. :tsk:
That is directly in violation of forum rules. Everyone brushes up against that line from time to time, while trying to establish or defend a position. In your case, you clearly have no intent to defend the issues that you are espousing, demonstrating that you did not come here to debate, merely to find a convenient soapbox from which to preach. I hope three times is the charm for you.
Personally, I think you know that the statements you are making are indefensible, and don't have the courage to engage in rational discourse to allow others the opportunity to question your posts. For my money, if you post again from the soapbox without replying to the challenges of your first two diatribes, you should be banned from the site. But hey - that's why I'm not king of this site.

TVOR

 

[Mister Emu]

Clirus,

Just what was your intention here?

Your two posts are pointless tirades based on rediculous opinions.

Yes, I believe pornography is not for me, it evokes lust, and I do not believe lust to be a good thing. Yes I am against abortion, I find the act the most reprehensible condoned by the law at the time, and it is my sincerest wish that Bush does indeed get to choose enough judges to overturn Roe v Wade, but getting on here and ranting does nothing, it will not sway anyone's views.

Welfare is the cure for the sin of pornography that lead to the illegitimate children that leads to the need for welfare.

:biglaugh: Welfare is the liberal cure for pornography? Pornography leads to illegitimate children? If there is a study that backs this up please show it, otherwise I will stand by my opinion that men who don't want to take care of the kids they sire and aren't worth the bowel excretions they flush down the toilet are the cause of illegitimate kids.

On your first post, you are correct we are supposed to "hate" the sin, you left out though that we should love the sinner, if you hate anyone I will refer you to the Bible, where Jesus says that you should love your enemies(I use this as a broad term, I find neither Bill Clinton, nor anyone here, nor anyone at all my enemy).