Monarchy vs Republic

[Altfish]

So you think the monarchy you have would be unelectable if they had to actually run? Doesn't this suggest that they lack legitimacy? If they're incapable of getting a mandate from the people, then what right do they have to their positions?

They have no right, scrap it altogether.

 

[ChristineM]

No, we'd end up with Labour v Conservative again. That is, the only candidates with any chance are those with money behind them.

Its worse than that, of the 1400+ individuals in commons and lords only 270 are actually elected.

There are almost 400 safe seat so it doesn't matter who contests them. Over 670 appointed members and over 100 hereditary ones. Thats the british democracy that represents the people.

 

[ChristineM]

I suppose the only good thing is that plenty of gullible Americans and Japanese are attracted by them - helps keep visitor numbers up

Think the Japanese would prefer to visit the lake district*. And americans aren't in the UK long enough when they need to see europe in 10 days**.

* Living not to far away it was a regular haunt of ours. The number of tour busses unloading Japanese tourist at Windermere quayside often caused traffic jams.

** Ok, tongue in cheek but there is some truth in it.

 

[Eddi]

@Eddi - if you like Elizabeth and don't like Charles, I have a perfect solution for you: elect your head of state. That way, you can vote for Elizabeth and not for Charles. If enough of your fellow Britons agree with you, you'll get the heads of state you want.

I'm just concerned about the type of people who would put themselves forward for the job

 

[Jumi]

Prefer republic to monarchy.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I'm just concerned about the type of people who would put themselves forward for the job

Considering your country's track record of monarchs, it can't be worse than what you've had to date.

 

[Eddi]

Considering your country's track record of monarchs, it can't be worse than what you've had to date.

I think Prince Charles should be given a chance

He knows he has a lot to live up to

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I think Prince Charles should be given a chance

He knows he has a lot to live up to

If he can demonstrate that he has the people's support in a free and fair election, then he should be given a chance by all means.

... and "a chance" meaning "an opportunity to do the job for a reasonable term of office." It would stretch the meaning of the terms to call giving him the job for life without any legal recourse to remove him "a chance."

 

[Eddi]

If he can demonstrate that he has the people's support in a free and fair election, then he should be given a chance by all means.

... and "a chance" meaning "an opportunity to do the job for a reasonable term of office." It would stretch the meaning of the terms to call giving him the job for life without any legal recourse to remove him "a chance."

The public would never want to change the system, in all polls conducted about their support of the monarchy (I don't have the stats to hand) they come out overwhelmingly in favour of the status quo

Perhaps that would change were the monarchy to go into crisis, at some point in the future. Who knows.

 

[GoodbyeDave]

Every governmental system needs an "emergency backup system": consider the consequences of not having an effective one in the USA.

A president is a politician, even if a retired one. A monarch has no political baggage and is beholden to no-one. In times of emergency, they can prove very valuable:
> King George V of UK setting up the National Government in 1931
> King Juan Carlos of Spain facing down the rebel generals in 1981
> King Albert II of the Belgians helping to sort out the impasse of 2010

They can also provide an element of continuity. In the UK, an incoming prime minister doesn't have access to all the papers of the previous government, since some are politically sensitive. The Queen has read them and discussed policies with her PM, so she can offer discrete explanations of why certain decisions were taken.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The public would never want to change the system, in all polls conducted about their support of the monarchy (I don't have the stats to hand) they come out overwhelmingly in favour of the status quo

Perhaps that would change were the monarchy to go into crisis, at some point in the future. Who knows.

Depends which public. Recent polls in Canada have a bit more than 50% support for getting rid of the monarchy.

And as I touched on earlier, it's a bit ironic to cite popular support to justify a system based on the idea that popular support is irrelevant. The mere fact that you would use polls to support your position suggests that you're conceding that I'm right.

 

[Eddi]

Depends which public. Recent polls in Canada have a bit more than 50% support for getting rid of the monarchy.

And as I touched on earlier, it's a bit ironic to cite popular support to justify a system based on the idea that popular support is irrelevant. The mere fact that you would use polls to support your position suggests that you're conceding that I'm right.

I'm just cautious of change, that's all - and maybe you are right

 

[Estro Felino]

For me as a "colonial," monarchy is tied up in empire: .

A monarch is a necessary unifying force in a country like yours where the French identity and the British one have to coexist.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

A monarch is a necessary unifying force in a country like yours where the French identity and the British one have to coexist.

The British monarchy is not a unifying force in Canada.

As Prince William and Kate Middleton prepare for their day-and-a-half sojourn in la belle province, new polling suggests there is a huge gulf between Quebec and the rest of Canada when it comes to support for the monarchy.

Public sentiment toward the royals in Quebec "ranges from utter indifference to mild hostility," according to lifelong Quebecer and Montreal Gazette columnist Bill Brownstein.

Quebecers warm to royal visit, cool to monarchy | CBC News

 

[PureX]

Why have a monarchy in which the monarchs are just figure-heads, with no actual power? If you all like monarchy so much, why don't you empower them?

 

[Father Heathen]

I also prefer a constitutional monarchy as I think an advantage having a king or queen is they can offer more guidance and hopefully serve as a figure to organize around in an emergency..

But what sort of insight could a king or queen offer that would make their guidance more valuable than that of a random person off the street?

 

[Father Heathen]

I suppose the only good thing is that plenty of gullible Americans and Japanese are attracted by them - helps keep visitor numbers up

I admit to knowing next to nothing about the British monarchy, but I presume their wealth is gained from taxes? Does tourism really offset this?

 

[Father Heathen]

Why have a monarchy in which the monarchs are just figure-heads, with no actual poser? If you all like monarchy so much, why don't you empower them?

It's like having a mascot. The Queen is to the United Kingdom what Micky Mouse is to Disney Land. If their lineage were to end, their replacement "King/Queen" will be performers in big foam heads.

 

[Rival]

But what sort of insight could a king or queen offer that would make their guidance more valuable than that of a random person off the street?

In theory, a monarch should have been raised from birth to understand politics, world affairs and the legal system &c. Rather than a commoner with little actual exposure to world events and negligible real education (one does not necessarily have to have studied politics to be in politics, after all). The ideal is that a monarch should have such exposure from a young age and a holistic education that he or she will be fit and understanding enough to lead the nation.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I suppose the only good thing is that plenty of gullible Americans and Japanese are attracted by them - helps keep visitor numbers up

With nearly 10 million visitors every year, Versailles is one of the most visited historic sites in the world.

Visitors to Versailles (1682-1789)


Windsor Castle and Frogmore House were by far the most popular attraction, with 1.44 million visitors , followed by Buckingham Palace during its summer opening period, with a little under half a million visitors.

Royal tourism: admission numbers by establishment | UK 2018

Seeing how France's most popular palace attracts 7 times as many visitors as Britain's most popular palace, but France hasn't had a monarch in over a century, it would seem that you don't actually need a royal family to have royal tourism.

If anything, evicting the current residents would free up more of the British castles to be better tourist attractions.