1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Mohammed

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by Islam, Sep 26, 2006.

  1. writer

    writer Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2006
    Messages:
    514
    Ratings:
    +16
    Christ, sorry to say
     
  2. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2004
    Messages:
    9,497
    Ratings:
    +927
    i suppose if i were looking for something really hard i could find anything in there...
     
  3. spacemonkey

    spacemonkey Pneumatic Spiritualist

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2005
    Messages:
    537
    Ratings:
    +53
  4. carlbenator

    carlbenator New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2006
    Messages:
    2
    Ratings:
    +1
    How can you get your credibility from the Bible when your religion teaches it was bastardized by the Jews. Are we to pick and choose what is true and what is error?

    And WHO is to judge such things concerning OUR Book? Muslims?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Jerrell

    Jerrell Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2006
    Messages:
    298
    Ratings:
    +18
    Some use the Bible to justify war, others to justify murder, others to justify suicide, others to justify financial prosperity, others to justify sinning, and so on and so on.

    If you want to use the bible to point out mohaamed. Why in the world do Moslems call it corrupt? Why do you deny every single verse except those which you say fortell of Mohaamed? It is hypocrisy which you do, to pick and choose what to beleive out of a Holy Book which you deem corrupt. As for me I believe in Jesus:
    [FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Psalms 22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.

    [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]John 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.[/FONT]

    ______________________________________________________________________
    [FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Isaiah 53:4-9 4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

    5
    But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.


    6
    All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

    7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

    [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Isaiah 42:6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;


    I beleive in Jesus, and that he is the Light, given unto the Gentiles.


    Jeuss said:

    [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Luke2:29 Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word: (speaking of Jesus)30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, 31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; 32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.[/FONT]
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Jerrell

    Jerrell Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2006
    Messages:
    298
    Ratings:
    +18
    quote from "http://debate.org.uk/topics/trtracts/t05.htm"
    Al A'raf 7:157
    "Those who follow the apostle, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in the Taurat and the Injil..."

    Al Saff 61:6
    "...Jesus, the son of Mary said: 'O children of Israel! I am the apostle of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Taurat (which came) before me and giving glad tidings of an apostle to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad' "

    [SIZE=-1]Qur'anic translation taken from Yusuf Ali[/SIZE]
    [​IMG] Are There Predictions of Muhammad in the Old Testament?

    Do we find Muhammad in the Old Testament? According to Suras 7 and 61 Muhammad is predicted in the Old Testament (Taurat). For a long time now, Muslims have tried desperately to find these predictions for their prophet in those scriptures which preceded the Qur'an (the Taurat, Zabuur and the Injil), but to no avail. It is ironic that Muslims are now compelled by their own scripture to establish the credibility of their prophet in the Old Testament. Muslims and Christians alike agree that Christ's coming was predicted often in the Old Testament. Yet, if God had intended to send another prophet far greater than He, we should naturally find predictions concerning him there as well. None are to be found. Therefore, without a prediction the sole criteria for Muhammad's authority rests entirely on the Qur'an. For obvious reasons this kind of circular argument is untenable.
     
  7. Islam

    Islam Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2006
    Messages:
    222
    Ratings:
    +13
    In Deuteronomy 18, Moses stated that God told him: “I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account.” (Deuteronomy 18:18-19).

    Who other then Mohammed was like Moses? Do you think this verse was speaking of Jesus? No, because Jesus p.b.u.h isnt like Moses in any way. Moses brought a code, the ten comandments, and so did Mohammed. Moses lived and died, in a normal life, and so did Mohammed. In another translation the verse says:
    [SIZE=-1]"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren,[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1]like unto thee,[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1]and I will put my words in his mouth;[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1]and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him." Deut.18:18.[/SIZE]

    Now lets take a look and compare, Moses, Jesus, and Mohammed p.b.u.t

    Moses's birth: normal,
    Mohammed: Normal
    Jesus: Ubnormal

    Family Life:
    Moses: Married, children
    Mohammed: married, children
    Jesus: Not married

    Death:
    Moses: usual

    Mohammed: usual
    Jesus: unusual

    career:
    Moses: prophet/salsemen
    Mohammed: prophet/salsemen
    jesus: prophet

    Forced imigration:
    Moses: To Medin

    Mohammed: To Medina
    Jesus: None

    Encounter with enemies:
    Moses: hot pursuit
    Mohammed: hot pursuit/battles
    jesus: none

    Nature of teachings:
    Moses: spiritual/law

    Mohammed: spiritual/law
    Jesus: mainly spiritual

    Acceptance:
    Moses: rejected then accepted
    Mohammed: rejected then accepted
    Jesus: still rejected by most Israelites.

    http://www.themodernreligion.com/prophet/bible_muh.htm
     
  8. Islam

    Islam Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2006
    Messages:
    222
    Ratings:
    +13
    What does the word Mohammed mean?
    It means the praised one, the admired one.

    Jesus said:



    [SIZE=-1]"As for me, I am now come to the world to prepare the way for the Messenger of God, who shall bring salvation to the world. By the living God, in whose presence my soul stands, I am not the Savior whom all the tribes of the earth expect."[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1]Then said the Priest:[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1]"How shall the Savior be called, and what sign shall reveal his coming?"[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1]Jesus answered:[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1]"The name of the Savior shall be the Admirable One, for, God himself gave him the name when he had created his soul, and placed it in celestial splendor. God said, "Wait O Admirable One (=Muhammad), for thy sake I will create paradise, the world, and a great multitude of creatures, whereas I make thee a present, insomuch that whosoever shall curse the shall be cursed. When I send thee into the world, I shall send thee as My Messenger of Salvation, and thy world shall be true insomuch that heaven and earth shall fail but thy faith shall never fail. Admirable One is his blessed name."[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1]Then the crowd lifted up their voices, saying:[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]"O God send Thy Messenger. O Admirable One come quickly for the salvation of the world."[/SIZE]
     
  9. Islam

    Islam Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2006
    Messages:
    222
    Ratings:
    +13
  10. ayani

    ayani member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2005
    Messages:
    5,781
    Ratings:
    +756
    Islam- is there not a passage in the Quran where a messenger (rasool) bearing a book (kitab) is mentioned, not being mentioned specifically as Mohammed? i think it's towards the end of the Quran- a Baha'i friend directed be to this passage. i will try to find it for you.
     
  11. Islam

    Islam Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2006
    Messages:
    222
    Ratings:
    +13
    =) please do.
     
  12. ayani

    ayani member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2005
    Messages:
    5,781
    Ratings:
    +756
  13. ayani

    ayani member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2005
    Messages:
    5,781
    Ratings:
    +756
  14. ayani

    ayani member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2005
    Messages:
    5,781
    Ratings:
    +756
    i'll try to get ahold of the passage i originally sited, too. thank you for being patient!

    do you have any idea which verse specifically this might be? islam, or anyone else familiar with the Quran?
     
  15. Jerrell

    Jerrell Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2006
    Messages:
    298
    Ratings:
    +18
    You liken Mohammed like unto Moses, Without stating the obvious. Moses was Jewish (Hebrew), EVERY SINGLE PROPHET CALLED BY GOD WAS JEWISH(Hebrew), yet Mohammed was a pagan Arab when Gabriel appeared to him. The Verse said the Prophet would be likt unto Moses, not Born just like him, or live just like him. Just as We Christians are like unto Jesus, but we were not born of a virgin, nor have we risen from the dead (which you may not believe). Jesus also, is not still rejected by israelites, Almost all of the first Christians were Jewish, and many did convert...and also Mohammed is also STILL rejected by most Israelites (Israelis).

    Moses came to establish a law, he lead the people, and judged them. Who was Like unto Moses? There was Elijah, Abinijad, Amos, Deborah, Isaiah, Jeremiah, David, Joel, Daniel, Nehemiah, Hosea, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Malachi, and even John the Baptist.

    No this Verse is not speaking of Jesus, becuase Jesus is diffrent from Moses, he is not to come in the name of Moses, but after God, and that of Adam.

    [FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Romans 5:14,21 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come...Jesus Christ our Lord.

    1 Corinthians 15:
    [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.


    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Prophecy Tells me that Jesus is the Messiah. Isaiah wrote what God said,

    "Behold my Servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delights, I have put my spirit upon him, he shall bring forth judgment unto the Gentiles (non-Jews)...he shall not fail...I will give him for a covenant of the people, for a light unto the Gentiles" Isaiah 42:1-6

    Though you may deny that my Jesus did not die upon the Cross, Peophecy said, He shall not fail, Prophecy also says that he shall hang upon the cross (Psalms 22:16, Zec 12:10), and that he shall be salvation for the Gentiles. As for me, i shall not let a prophet replace the Promised Messiah, Jesus Christ the Lord, the Righteous One.


    [/FONT]
     
  16. Islam

    Islam Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2006
    Messages:
    222
    Ratings:
    +13
    Mohammed is an Ishmaelite, a "brethren" of the Jews, a cousin of them. Even if not an Israelite, that's God's wisdom of things he choses who he wants. Says who he has to be an Israelite? Mohammed wasn't sent for the jews unlike Jesus or Moses, he was sent by Allah for the complete humanity. And no he wasnt a pagan, he never worshiped them.
    [SIZE=-1]Arabs and Jews[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1]If Ishmael and Isaac are the sons of the same father Abraham, then they are brothers. And so the children of the one are the BRETHREN of the children of the other. The children of Isaac are the Jews and the Children of Ishmael are the Arabs - so they are BRETHREN to one another. The Bible affirms, 'AND HE (ISHMAEL) SHALL DWELL IN THE PRESENCE OF ALL HIS BRETHREN.' (Genesis 16:12). 'AND HE (ISHMAEL) DIED IN THE PRESENCE OF ALL HIS BRETHREN.(Genesis 25:18). The children of Isaac are the brethren of the Ishmaelites. In like manner Muhummed is from among the brethren of the Israeli tes beause he was a descendant of Ishamel the son of Abraham. This exactly as the prophecy has it- 'FROM AMONG THEIR BRETHREN'.(Deut.18:18). There the prophecy distinctly mentions that the coming prophet who would be like Moses, must arise NOT from the 'children of Israel' or from 'among the mselves', but from among their brethren. MUHUMMED THEREFORE WAS FROM AMONG THEIR BRETHREN![/SIZE]

    How are Christians like unto Jesus? You mean they believe in him? Yeah, Mohammed believed in Jesus and Moses. No Muslim is a Muslim if they dont accept Jesus Christ.

    He is, peace be upon him.
    Muslims believe that Jesus IS THE MESSIAH! He is the Christ. Messiah means Christ, that's what Jesus is, im with you on that.

    Mohammed wasnt sent for just the Israelites he was sen for all of mankind since hes the final prophet. Jesus was sent for the Israelites and the majority of them disbleive in him and you cant debate that.

    I quote the site I gave you:


    [SIZE=-1]Baptist Contradicts Jesus[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1]In New Testament times, we find that the Jews were still expecting the fulfilment of the prophecy of 'ONE LIKE MOSES', refer John 1:19-25. When Jesus claimed to be the Messiah of the Jews,the Jews began to enquire as to where was Elias? The Jews had a parallel prophecy that before the coming of the Messiah, Elias must come first in his second coming. Jesus confirms this Jewish belief:[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1] ".......ELIAS TRULY SHALL FIRST COME, AND RESTORE ALL THINGS. BUT I SAY UNTO YOU, THAT ELIAS IS COME ALREADY, AND THEY KNEW HIM NOT,...THEN THE DISCIPLES UNDERSTOOD THAT HE SPAKE UNTO THEM OF JOHN THE BAPTIST."(Matthew 17:11-13). According to the New Testament the Jews were not the ones to s wallow the words of any would-be Messiah. In their investigations they underwent intense difficulties in order to find their true Messiah. And this the Gospel of John confirms: "AND THIS IS THE RECORD OF JOHN,"(the Baptist) "WHEN THE JEWS SENT PRIESTS AND LEVITES FROM JERUSALEM TO ASK HIM, WHO ART THOU? AND HE CONFESSED AND DENIED NOT; BUT CONFESSED, I AM NOT THE CHRIST." (This was only natural because there can't be two Messiahs (14) at the same time. If Jesus was the Christ then John couldn't be the Christ!) "AND THEY ASKED HIM, WHAT THEN? ART THOU ELIAS? AND HE SAITH, I AM NOT." (Here Joh n the Baptist contradicts Jesus! Jesus says that John is "Elias" and John denies that he is what Jesus ascribes him to be. One of the TWO (Jesus or John), God forbid!, is difinitely not speaking the TRUTH! On the testimony of Jesus himself, John the Baptist was the greatest of the Israelite prophet s:"VERILY I SAY UNTO YOU, AMOUNG THEM THAT ARE BORN OF WOMEN THERE HAS NOT RISENA GREATER THAN JOHN THE BAPTIST:... (Matthew 11:11).[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1] We Muslims know John the Baptist as Hazrut YAHYAA Alai-his-salaam (peace be upon him). We revere him as a true prophet of Allah. The Holy Prophet Jesus known to us as Hazrut ISAA Alai-his-salaam (peace be upon him), is also esteemed as one of the mightiest messenger of the Almighty. How can we Musl ims impute lies to either of them? We leave this problem between Jesus and John for the Christians to solve, for their "sacred scriptures abound in discrepancies which they have been glossing over as the "dark sayings of Jesus"(15). We Muslims are really interested in the last questions posed to Jo hn the Baptist by the Jewish elite- "ART THOU THAT PROPHET? AND HE ANSWERED, NO."(John 1:21)[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1] Three Questions![/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1]Please note that three different and distinct questions were posed to John the Baptist and to which he gave three emphatic "NO'S" as answers. To recapitulate:-[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1]1) ART THOU THE CHRIST?[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1]2) ART THOU ELIAS?[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1]3) ART THOU THAT PROPHET?[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1] But the learned men of Christendom somehow only see two questions implied here. To make doubly clear that the Jews definitely had T-H-R-E-E separate prophecies in their minds when they were interogating John the Baptist, let us read the remonstrance of the Jews in the verses following:[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]"AND THEY ASKED HIM, AND SAID UNTO HIM, WHEY BAPTIZEST THOU THEN, IF THOU BE[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1]a) NOT THAT CHRIST,[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1]b) NOR ELIAS,[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1]c) NEITHER THAT PROPHET?"[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1](John 1:25)[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1] The Jews were waiting for the fulfilment of THREE distinct prophecies: One, the coming of CHRIST. Two the coming of ELIAS, and Three, the coming of THAT PROPHET.[/SIZE]



    Just to make it clear to you, Muslims believe that Jesus was the Christ and a prophet sent by God. We believe in his virgin birth. However we don't believe that he died on the cross. We believe God changed him with the one who betrayed him, and he raised Jesus into the heavens, only to return him later on near the end of the world. So we believe Jesus never tasted death in the first place. We also believe in many miacles Christians believe were performed by Jesus p.b.u.h such as the rising of the dead, healing the dead etc. We also believe that when he was born, the people asked his mother the Virgin Marry p.b.u.h about whos son he was and he spoke (as a baby) and said that shes a Virgin and that he was a messenger sent by God.
    (Just figured you'd find it interesting, thats all.)
     
  17. Islam

    Islam Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2006
    Messages:
    222
    Ratings:
    +13
    Jesus wasnt accepted by the Jews, simply put, according to the Bible itself.
    "HE CAME UNTO HIS OWN, BUT HIS OWN RECIEVED HIM NOT." (John 1:11)

    Mohammed fullfilledIsaiahs prophecy:
    " AND THE BOOK IS DELIVERED TO HIM THAT IS NOT LEARNED, SAYING, READ THIS, I PRAY THEE: AND HE SAITH, I AM NOT LEARNED." (isaiah 29:12)

    "THE ANGEL CAME TO HIM AND ASKED HIM TO READ, THE PROPHET REPLIED, I DO NOT KNOW HOW TO READ." (Hadith, Sahih Bukhari, 1:1:003)

    Jesus said:
    "Nevertheless, I tell you the truth;
    it is expedient for you that I go
    away: for if I go not away, the
    Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart,
    I will send him unto you. (John 16:7)

    Jesus also said:

    "AND I WILL PRAY THE FATHER, AND HE SHALL GIVE YOU ANOTHER COMFORTER, THAT HE MAY ABIDE WITH YOU FOR EVER" (john 1:16)

    Christians say this is Holy Ghost or the Holly spirit. This is not possible because Jesus saidif I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you and we can see in the following verse which were before jesus Christ which speak of the coming and going of the Holy Ghost:

    1) "and he (John the Baptist) shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mothers womb." Luke 1:15

    2) "And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost." Luke 1:41

    3) "And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost." Luke 1:67

    Need I say more?
    So Jesus wasnt talking about the Holy Ghost.

    Now, again in Jesus's own words:
    "I have yet Many Things to say unto you, but Ye Cannot Bear Them Now." John 16:12

    Why? Its the nature of those who Jesus preached to.
    In his own words:

    "And he (Jesus) saith unto them (the disciples), Why are ye fearful, O Ye of Little Faith?" Matthew 8:26

    "And he (Jesus) said unto them (his disciples), Where Is Your Faith?" Luke 8:25

    "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of Truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth." John 16:13

    Spirit.. Spirit is Prophet, Where Did I Get This From?

    "Beloved, believe not every Spirit,
    but try the Spirits whether they
    are of God; because many false
    Prophets are gone into the world." 1 John 4:1

    So when the Prophet of Truth comes he will guide everyone into all truth.

    Mohammed, was known to All Arabs as "Assadiq Al Amin" or "the truthful, the honest".

    For those who still say that the verse was speaking of the Holy Ghost. Tell us, how can the Holy Ghost have no sollution? Jesus Christ peace be upon him said that he will guide you into all truth. If a Christian speaks he says the Holy Ghost in me has spoken. I have to ask, if Jesus has been talking about the Holy Ghost, what did the Holy Ghost contribute to the Christian world in the last 1000 years?
    Did he solve any problems?
    1- Alcohol
    2-Gambling
    3-Fortune Telling
    4-Racism
    5-Devil Worship

    Jimmy Swaggart in his book 'ALCOHOL" says that America has 11 million alcoholics and 44 million heavy drinkers!

    Yet Mohammed, the Spirit of truth says:
    "WHATEVER INTOXICATES IN GREATER QUANTITY, IS FORBIDDEN EVEN IN SMALLER QUANTITY."

    And God says in the Holly Quran:
    O YE WHO BELIEVE!
    MOST CERTAINLY INTOXICANTS,

    AND GAMBLING,
    (DEDICATION OF) Stones,
    AND (DIVINATION) OF ARROWS,
    ARE AN ABOMINATION,
    OF SATAN'S HANDIWORK
    SHUN SUCH (ABOMINATION)
    THAT YE MAY PROSPER. - 5:93

    Shall I go on?

    O AMERICA!
    The USA has a surplus of 7,8 million women. It means that if every man in America got married, there would still be 7,800,000 women left over. Take the city of New York for example. It has one million more women then men. Even if the total male populaton would unit ewith the opposite sex in matrimony, there would still remain 1,000,000 women without husbands.

    Holy Ghost? Why didnt you help them?
    God solves this and sends his revelation upon to Mohammed the Spirit of Truth and says in the Holly Qur'an:
    "...Marry women of your choice,
    two, or three, or four;
    But if you fear that you will
    not be able to deal justly (with them)
    Then (marry) only one..." -4:3

    Glorifying Jesus
    Jesus says:
    "He (the spirit of truth) shall Glorify Me for he shall recieve of mine,
    and shall shew it unto you." -John 16:13
    "But when the comforter come...
    he shall testify of me" - John 15:26

    In the Holly Quran, a chapter is entitled Marry:
    16. Relate in the Book (the story of) Mary, when she withdrew from her family to a place in the East.
    17. She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then We sent her our angel, and he appeared before her as a man in all respects.
    18. She said: "I seek refuge from thee to ((Allah)) Most Gracious: (come not near) if thou dost fear Allah."
    19. He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son.
    20. She said: "How shall I have a son, seeing that no man has touched me, and I am not unchaste?"
    21. He said: "So (it will be): Thy Lord saith, 'that is easy for Me: and (We wish) to appoint him as a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us':It is a matter (so) decreed."
    22. So she conceived him, and she retired with him to a remote place.

    Also, in the Qur'an it also says:
    "That they (the Jews) rejected Faith;
    and they uttered against Marry a
    grave false charge." - 4:156

    "O sister of Aaron! thy father was
    not a man of evil, not thy mother
    a women unchaste!"

    What more glorification do yo want?

    But!

    "O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs." - 4:171
     
  18. Islam

    Islam Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2006
    Messages:
    222
    Ratings:
    +13
    no reply?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Snowbear

    Snowbear Nita Okhata

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,420
    Ratings:
    +263
    Huh - imagine that.... the same Muslims who state the Bible has been so corrupted that nothing in it can be believed are now using that same Bible in an attempt to validate their own prophet and discredit Christianity! :biglaugh:
    We are 'like unto Jesus' in that just as Jesus died and was Resurrected to be with God, so will we be.

    The Bible says that Jesus as the Christ (Savior, Messiah) took the punishment for all of mankind's sins upon Himself. He didn't swap places with His deceiver.... that guy died later. In being resurrected, Jesus conquered death... not just for Himself, but for anyone who accepts and confesses that He did it for us as well.

    Yet Islam teaches you otherwise.... the Quranic version of the story is so twisted that it's considered blasphemy against Mohammed to believe the simplicity of the Gospel and Jesus' Message.... He summed it all up pretty well when He said,
    Joh 14:5 Thomas said to Him, Lord, we do not know where You go, and how can we know the way?
    6 Jesus said to him, I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no one comes to the Father but by Me.
    7 If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also. And from now on you know Him and have seen Him.
    It looks to me like the Quran HAS to say the Bible was changed and corrupted.... because if you actually accepted any more of the pieces than those which Mohammed picked and chose, the Quran would HAVE to be considered false. And we can't have that, can we ;)
    You say that to be a Muslim you must 'accept' Jesus as the Christ (aka Messiah aka Savior). Even the demons know that... but they don't accept Him as a savior either...
    Mark 1:34 And He healed many who were sick of different diseases, and cast out many demons. And He did not allow the demons to speak, because they knew Him.

    Luke 4:41 And also demons came out of many, crying out and saying, You are the Christ, the Son of God! And rebuking them, He did not allow them to speak; for they knew Him to be the Christ.
    James 2:19 You believe that there is one God, you do well; even the demons believe and tremble.
    Christians believe that accepting Jesus as the Christ means accepting Him as your Savior, not only as a mere prophet. Yet you reject the MOST IMPORTANT thing He did as the Savior... that thing He did that MAKES Him the Savior. :confused: :confused: Sorry guys... looks to me like you're contradicting yourselves on this one.

    Anhow... I did some searching and had no trouble finding references to Mohammed and others like him in the Bible:

    God warned us of the self-proclaimed false prophets ...
    Jeremiah 23:21 I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran; I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied.
    22 But if they had stood in My wisdom and had caused My people to hear My Words, then they would have turned them from their evil way and from the evil of their doings.
    23 Am I a God near, says Jehovah, and not a God afar off?
    24 Can anyone hide himself in secret places so that I shall not see him? says Jehovah. Do I not fill the heavens and earth? says Jehovah.
    25 I have heard what the prophets said, who prophesy lies in My name, saying, I have dreamed, I have dreamed.
    26 How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? But they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart,
    27 who plot to cause My people to forget My name by their dreams which they tell, each one to his neighbor, as their fathers have forgotten My name for Baal.
    28 The prophet who has a dream, let him tell a dream. And he who has My Word, let him speak My Word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat? says Jehovah.
    29 Is not My Word like a fire? says Jehovah; and like a hammer that breaks the rock in pieces?
    30 So Jehovah says, Behold, I am against the prophets who steal My Words each one from his neighbor.
    31 Jehovah says, Behold, I am against the prophets who use their tongues and say, He says.
    32 Jehovah says, Behold, I am against those who prophesy false dreams and tell them, and cause My people to go astray by their lies and by their lightness. Yet I did not send them nor command them; therefore they shall not profit this people at all, says Jehovah.
    I had no trouble finding references to and warnings about Mohammed and others like Him in the New Testament as well....

    Centuries before Muhammed was born, Jesus warned us:
    Matthew 7:13 Go in through the narrow gate, for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many there are who go in through it.
    14 Because narrow is the gate and constricted is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
    15 Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
    16 You shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles?
    17 Even so every good tree brings forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree brings forth evil fruit.

    Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said to them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
    5 For many will come in My name, saying, I am Christ, and will deceive many.
    6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled, for all these things must occur; but the end is not yet.
    7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines and pestilences and earthquakes in different places.
    8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
    9 Then they will deliver you up to be afflicted and will kill you. And you will be hated of all nations for My name's sake.
    10 And then many will be offended, and will betray one another, and will hate one another.
    11 And many false prophets will rise and deceive many.

    Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ! Or, There! Do not believe it.
    24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and show great signs and wonders; so much so that, if it were possible, they would deceive even the elect.
    25 Behold, I have told you beforehand.
    26 Therefore if they shall say to you, Behold, He is in the desert! Do not go out. Behold, He is in the secret rooms! Do not believe it.

    also:
    Mark 13:21 And then if anyone shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ! Or, lo, there! Do not believe him.
    22 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will give miraculous signs and wonders in order to seduce, if possible, even the elect.
    23 But take heed; behold, I have told you all things beforehand.
    2Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who secretly will bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing on themselves swift destruction.
    2 And many will follow their pernicious ways, and because of them the way of truth will be evil spoken of.
     
Loading...