Modern Science proves the Authenticity of the Glorious Qur'an

[Gharib]

No, here's what I'm saying: if something is beyond human knowledge, this doesn't mean that only God knows it.

and how did you come to that?

god knows everything, so if someone or something that is non human braggs about "god said this or that" wouldn't god know of it, that an angel is speaking for god?

You're begging the question. How do you know that this verse wasn't inserted by humans or is the result of Muhammad mis-hearing it?

well if we go by what you are saying, then 2 things come to mind;
either Muhammed (saws) had hearing problems
OR
he mis-heard everything.

not lets examine them;
if he was deaf, god would not have chosen him as a prophet
if he mis-heard god would correct him or may have chosen someone who didn't mis-hear things.

it doesn't get anymore simple than that.

But again, is God the only entity who could create a book that humans couldn't find fault with?

DUH. angels don't have free will (islamic view). and the devil will not say to humans obey god, and hate me.

Also, what would you consider to be an error, and how would we determine whether any of them are in the Quran?

an error would be;
verses contradicting each other
verses that would need to be uptadet, since humans don't know the future, and sooner or latter what ever was written by man would need to be uptadet.

thats just some in my oppinion.

It seems to me that most Quranic interpretation is a rather rigged game: if something can't be considered to be literally true, it's interpreted as poetry or allegory.

sorry this is too complicated for me to understand, can you say it in a less complicated way?

If a prophesy hasn't been fulfilled, it's interpreted to refer to the future. Similar interpretative approaches can be used to argue away any apparent "error" or contradiction.

no, the prophecy has been completed.

 

[Gharib]

Funny if that's the cause then modern Science can be shown to prove that the Ancient Egyptians, Greeks, Romes, Chinese, and many other group are right 1000+ year before even the Jewish Holy book. Man new more about science then before your Holy book came along(to the OP).

what did they know?
the word science?

 

[Gharib]

I'm going to start making vague predictions about things, so that in 100 years or so people can start interpretting them any way they want that aligns with current events and new findings by science so that I look like a genius or a prophet from God. It's obviously worked before.

hey an unfinished prophecy. geez you really are a prophet.

 

[Gharib]

Yep - keep saying that. Maybe you'll eventually believe it.

yeah just like you do. you state something and try convince yourself that it is true. like i said, we've seen that before.

 

[Gharib]

I keep wondering:

i don't think you will ever stop.

Why does the Koran have to be authenticated by science?

it, doesn't. the thing is non muslims are not satisfied with something unless it is supported by something else which has evidence for it.
it already is authentic, this is just a branch of that authenticity.

It's not a science textbook.

no it's a law, a guide and a reminder.

 

[Gharib]

I don't think we should repeat this thing over and over, once a year is enough. :cover:

Eselam, there was a recent thread about the exact same topic;
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/science-vs-religion/77473-islam-science-common-sense.html

I think the thread of the above link (especially in the latter pages) was the best level of debate, I have ever seen, about this topic.

oops, i didn't know.
i never really followed that thread, there were to many complicated things and way too much writting. so i didn't know it was about the same thing.

do you want me to stop?

 

[Gharib]

A baby looks like chewed bubblegum, ok now your reaching.

don't ask me, i'm not a scientist

I don't mean to offend, but this is the most pointless drivel I've ever read. Somebody already debated this with you in another thread and totally contradicted all your points.

with me? i've never debated about this.

I still can't believe people believe this stuff, blows my mind.

so all scientist are dumb just because it blows your mind? nice.

 

[Gharib]

Well, let's hope they do not hand them out at schools. Then children cannot have fatwas issued against them...

yeah instead, lets tell primary school students that humans are fom monkeys.
why do all the stupid people have the power. they make little children brainless and then they become like the rest of you when they grow up. like they ever do.

 

[Gharib]

But in all honestly, i feel for a lot of Muslims, you have to put up with the ones in your religion who are so caught up in their own stench that they want everyone to smell the same...

no. we have to put up with people like you, who think thay know about islam and try to confuse the less educated muslims. if people like you minded their own bussiness and didn't stuff their nose into our religion, the world would be better of.

 

[Gharib]

Ah, just so.

Virtually no one will "actually believe any of this" because it's pure BS.

whats a BS?

Why don't you start a thread telling us that Allah himself invented the microscope? It would be just as accurate, and we could all get another chuckle.

yeah sure, anything you say. or should i say chance invented it. the microspcope was invented by itself. would that be better?

 

[darkendless]

no. we have to put up with people like you, who think thay know about islam and try to confuse the less educated muslims. if people like you minded their own bussiness and didn't stuff their nose into our religion, the world would be better of.

Then stop trying to convert the world and then stupid muslims wont have a reason to be confused.

 

[Gharib]

you know something, it is ussualy all of you "free thinkers" who have been given the freedom of thought that screw up the peace of this world.

those damned "civilised", "modern" countries have given the freedom of thought to psychos, weirdos, stereotypes, and sick minded people.

when a psycho is free to express his thoughts in public and no one can do anything about it, they really do take that opportunity and express everything their sick mind tells them.

if it wasn't for this freedom of thought, the world would be way better than it is. it is the dumb people that offend others, those who belong in a mental insitution have been given the power to do anything they want, so what good is there from such people?

if it wasn't for this "freedom of thought" none of this would have happened. Muslims would mind their own bussiness like always and you non muslims would keep your holes shut about islam.

it only took one ******* to offend us muslims and now just look at how the rest of the other ******** are following.

has anyone ever seen a smart muslim offendind a nation, a contry. where as a group of people that stretches in all the land of the earth and always minded their own religion gets offended every single day, by all sorts of weirdos that range from all year levels and all mental problems.

see how the western governments are fighting Islam? they are pushing us to our edge by letting sick people to speak freely, and of course they will speak about Islam and all the muslims will get offended. thats just what the west wants, and it has acheived it. too bad for them who don't realise this.

so know, i too was minding my own bussiness. i was posting some information that relate to my religion and all of you psychos suddenly showed up. (i am not including everyone, but those that i am speaking of do know who they are)
you know what? can't you people mind your own bussiness for once?
you do have worms bitting you from behind, but please next time if i see such idiocy coming from people that have no clue about anything, i may not be as tolerant and keep my cool and temper down.

i am really trying to let you off in a easy way, although it isn't that easy afterall, but if no one ever has a go at you you will never learn. so next time, remeber me when you speak about islam, because YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT IT.

my temper is really close to blow off, but i will not let you people to get that out of me. i'm used to these trick by now, afterall it will only make me look bad, just like it always has.

thanks to the rest of the people that replied, i got to learn something from some of you. some people are civilised and use their freedom of thought to bring peace and argue in a proper and civilised manner, unlike the rest of the animals that god created.

 

[darkendless]

you know something, it is ussualy all of you "free thinkers" who have been given the freedom of thought that screw up the peace of this world.

those damned "civilised", "modern" countries have given the freedom of thought to psychos, weirdos, stereotypes, and sick minded people.

when a psycho is free to express his thoughts in public and no one can do anything about it, they really do take that opportunity and express everything their sick mind tells them.

if it wasn't for this freedom of thought, the world would be way better than it is. it is the dumb people that offend others, those who belong in a mental insitution have been given the power to do anything they want, so what good is there from such people?

if it wasn't for this "freedom of thought" none of this would have happened. Muslims would mind their own bussiness like always and you non muslims would keep your holes shut about islam.

it only took one ******* to offend us muslims and now just look at how the rest of the other ******** are following.

has anyone ever seen a smart muslim offendind a nation, a contry. where as a group of people that stretches in all the land of the earth and always minded their own religion gets offended every single day, by all sorts of weirdos that range from all year levels and all mental problems.

see how the western governments are fighting Islam? they are pushing us to our edge by letting sick people to speak freely, and of course they will speak about Islam and all the muslims will get offended. thats just what the west wants, and it has acheived it. too bad for them who don't realise this.

so know, i too was minding my own bussiness. i was posting some information that relate to my religion and all of you psychos suddenly showed up. (i am not including everyone, but those that i am speaking of do know who they are)
you know what? can't you people mind your own bussiness for once?
you do have worms bitting you from behind, but please next time if i see such idiocy coming from people that have no clue about anything, i may not be as tolerant and keep my cool and temper down.

i am really trying to let you off in a easy way, although it isn't that easy afterall, but if no one ever has a go at you you will never learn. so next time, remeber me when you speak about islam, because YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT IT.

my temper is really close to blow off, but i will not let you people to get that out of me. i'm used to these trick by now, afterall it will only make me look bad, just like it always has.

thanks to the rest of the people that replied, i got to learn something from some of you. some people are civilised and use their freedom of thought to bring peace and argue in a proper and civilised manner, unlike the rest of the animals that god created.

Dude, you're an Australian. I think maybe you should not live here if you don't like free thought. We are not a tyranny and we are better off allowing to express ourselves.

We are not a country that will tell people you must believe in this, you can't believe in that. If we did do that, you would not be allowed here because i think Islam would have been outlawed.

Smart Muslims? The Iranian leader is calling for the destruction of Israel. IS Iran asking to be wiped off the map? Muslims have offended our country and it was muslims from within. Do you remember the Cronulla riots champ? Thats never going to go away. In fact, the whole country is lucky there wasn't one on the Gold Coast.

The Islam-phobia you speak of is brought about by the fact that almost every terorist attack in the last 9 years has been by MUSLIM EXTREMISTS. If these mentally challenged fellows weren't trying to corrupt the globe no one would care what Islam did. Islam brought this upon itself. In our country the problem has been with muslim leaders insulting our culture. It has been with gangs of muslim youth's annoying everyone and making certain areas unsafe.

If you don't want what you post challenged, don't post it in an open forum. You have a forum to post in its called the Islam DIR. You are entitled to your belief but what good is a belief when no one can challenge it and make it stronger?

BTW: there have been 3 threads on this same issue lately.

 

[Gharib]

Dude, you're an Australian. I think maybe you should not live here if you don't like free thought. We are not a tyranny and we are better off allowing to express ourselves.

finally you figured it out, huh.
i'm not an australian, i just happen to live here.
i do like free thought, but it has also been given to stereotypes, and thats bad news. just like that bold environment minister has been given the power to be an environment minister, you see what i'm getting at?
drug addicts have been given the right to control the government. yeah real clasy, it is not like we expect the west to be better than that. we know what you are made of.

We are not a country that will tell people you must believe in this, you can't believe in that. If we did do that, you would not be allowed here because i think Islam would have been outlawed.

no one in islam is forced to believe anything, we do it ourself. if we did force people, then why aren't you a muslim and why am i?

Smart Muslims? The Iranian leader is calling for the destruction of Israel. IS Iran asking to be wiped off the map?

he is asking to wipe Israel of the map.

Muslims have offended our country and it was muslims from within. Do you remember the Cronulla riots champ? Thats never going to go away. In fact, the whole country is lucky there wasn't one on the Gold Coast.

hang on a sec, ok. the people that took place in the riots happened to be lebaneese. so just because they are arabs, that makes them muslims automatically. i never knew this.

and what was the riot about anyway, i just arrived in OZZ when that happened, so i never really understood what it was for?

The Islam-phobia you speak of is brought about by the fact that almost every terorist attack in the last 9 years has been by MUSLIM EXTREMISTS.

so since when is australia and the US considered muslims? they are the biggest terrorists this world will ever see, especially that big glassed, big eye browsed Johny of yours and that idiot Bush of the US.
since when are they muslims?

If these mentally challenged fellows weren't trying to corrupt the globe no one would care what Islam did. Islam brought this upon itself.

yes true, an arab and a man who has a beard are muslims and anything they do is because of islam. they are not muslims and they are not the people that make up Islam.

In our country the problem has been with muslim leaders insulting our culture. It has been with gangs of muslim youth's annoying everyone and making certain areas unsafe.

insulting your culture? what culture might that be?
and it only was once, so what?
what about all the times you people have insulted islam and me. what about that "hole" radio presenter that insulted our women, for nothing, calling them terrorist suspects for wearing a hijab. what about that?

If you don't want what you post challenged, don't post it in an open forum. You have a forum to post in its called the Islam DIR. You are entitled to your belief but what good is a belief when no one can challenge it and make it stronger?

you just challenged it, i'd hate to think you have the brain of a gold fish, which can remember for only 3 sec.

BTW: there have been 3 threads on this same issue lately

yeah i know.

 

[darkendless]

finally you figured it out, huh.
i'm not an australian, i just happen to live here.
i do like free thought, but it has also been given to stereotypes, and thats bad news. just like that bold environment minister has been given the power to be an environment minister, you see what i'm getting at?
drug addicts have been given the right to control the government. yeah real clasy, it is not like we expect the west to be better than that. we know what you are made of.

It shows. To be honest, with your attitude towards us i wish you didn't. The West gives equal rights. Perhaps you do not understand what a democracy is?

no one in islam is forced to believe anything, we do it ourself. if we did force people, then why aren't you a muslim and why am i?

You are forced to believe in certain things in order to be considered a muslim, thats what i was getting at.

he is asking to wipe Israel of the map.

Exactly, he is a dangerous man. It does not reflect well upon muslims when a leader of a strongly muslims country is asking for such a thing to happen.

hang on a sec, ok. the people that took place in the riots happened to be lebaneese. so just because they are arabs, that makes them muslims automatically. i never knew this.

That is the beauty of stereotypes. Once the media got involved the issue became about muslims and not the lebonese. Many muslim leaders appeared on TV as a result.

and what was the riot about anyway, i just arrived in OZZ when that happened, so i never really understood what it was for?

Many years of violence from the lebonese muslim community. A group of youths of that decent beat up 2 lifesavers on patrol at Cronulla beach. That was the event that sparked the riot. It would have happened anyway, there's been years of hate building up.

so since when is australia and the US considered muslims? they are the biggest terrorists this world will ever see, especially that big glassed, big eye browsed Johny of yours and that idiot Bush of the US.
since when are they muslims?

Johnny is out of office. We're not terrorists, we're trying to help your backward, hell-holes of countries and the thanks we get is a bullet from some stupid muslim fanatic who has been preached to kill the infidel. Its really pathetic. When there is a next time the West might not be so nice about it. Afghanistan might be a big crater when we're finished to save us comming back again.

yes true, an arab and a man who has a beard are muslims and anything they do is because of islam. they are not muslims and they are not the people that make up Islam.

How are we to know the difference between real Islam and fake Islam?

insulting your culture? what culture might that be?
and it only was once, so what?
what about all the times you people have insulted islam and me. what about that "hole" radio presenter that insulted our women, for nothing, calling them terrorist suspects for wearing a hijab. what about that?

The leading Sheik in Australia called women who wear a bikini to the beach pieces of meat who deserve to be raped. Thats insulting to our culture. He should leave our country and never come back if he believes that.

 

[Gharib]

It shows. To be honest, with your attitude towards us i wish you didn't. The West gives equal rights. Perhaps you do not understand what a democracy is?

i have nothing against the west, it is the doings of some people that are the virus.

You are forced to believe in certain things in order to be considered a muslim, thats what i was getting at.

but thats the whole point, you cannot be a muslim if you do not believe in them, so no one is forcing us, we accept it. why don't you? you don't even acept the things that aren't forcable.

Exactly, he is a dangerous man. It does not reflect well upon muslims when a leader of a strongly muslims country is asking for such a thing to happen.

see you know nothing about his intentions and yet you are speaking about it.
do not say anything about things you do not know of.

That is the beauty of stereotypes. Once the media got involved the issue became about muslims and not the lebonese. Many muslim leaders appeared on TV as a result.

yeah, see you knew that, and yet you said it was the muslims in the previous post. all of you are like that, you know the truth but you always twist it around.

Many years of violence from the lebonese muslim community. A group of youths of that decent beat up 2 lifesavers on patrol at Cronulla beach. That was the event that sparked the riot. It would have happened anyway, there's been years of hate building up.

no, non muslim, half of Lebannon is non muslim, so just because they are lebannese it doesn't make them muslims.

Johnny is out of office.

yeah and he left a big scar on the world. people like him should be hanged.

We're not terrorists, we're trying to help your backward, hell-holes of countries and the thanks we get is a bullet from some stupid muslim fanatic who has been preached to kill the infidel.

so all arabs are muslims know right?

if oz and the US went to help, then why did the US bomb all the civilian properties when it invaded iraq? you've probably never heard of this? it was on SBS last year.

or you probaly have and just pretend you haven't just like before.

Its really pathetic. When there is a next time the West might not be so nice about it. Afghanistan might be a big crater when we're finished to save us comming back again.

no one want's you there in the first place, you have entered by force.

did Johnny receive any letter from the iraqi and afghani people to go there and help them? if no, then you have forced yourself there.

How are we to know the difference between real Islam and fake Islam?

you ask. you cannot know. unless you have studied islam. or are a muslim with great knowledge. like most of us muslims around here.

The leading Sheik in Australia called women who wear a bikini to the beach pieces of meat who deserve to be raped. Thats insulting to our culture. He should leave our country and never come back if he believes that.

so he should leave for insulting you?
then i too want to torture that idiot radio presenter for insulting me.

so whats it going to be?

see how the freedom of tought only makes things worse. it is the uneducated people that go bragging about the bussines of others.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

you know something, it is ussualy all of you "free thinkers" who have been given the freedom of thought that screw up the peace of this world.

I didn't bother reading the rest of your post. After this jewel of an opening statement, I just couldn't justify wasting the next four minutes of my life.

It would really do you good, to get out of the mosque once in a while.

 

[Gharib]

I didn't bother reading the rest of your post. After this jewel of an opening statement, I just couldn't justify wasting the next four minutes of my life.

no you can't afford that. life is too short, so why waste it. enjoy it for as long as you are alive, i too will do the same.

It would really do you good, to get out of the mosque once in a while.

funny. sure anything you say.

 

[darkendless]

i have nothing against the west, it is the doings of some people that are the virus.

George Bush is a fool, if i ever met him i'd kick him in the face too.

but thats the whole point, you cannot be a muslim if you do not believe in them, so no one is forcing us, we accept it. why don't you? you don't even acept the things that aren't forcable.

I don't believe in a higher power that would ask us to submit.

see you know nothing about his intentions and yet you are speaking about it.
do not say anything about things you do not know of.

What is there to know? He is a muslim leader and he is calling for the destruction of Israel. There are all sorts of problems with that. Those people need to learn to live and let live, the Ottomans lost world war one and the sub sequent invasions of Israel so they don't deserve to control the territory.

yeah, see you knew that, and yet you said it was the muslims in the previous post. all of you are like that, you know the truth but you always twist it around.

I only know what the media said. They said they were Lebonese muslims. I wasn't there and i'm thankful. West Sydney is a disgusting place and its a shame the government let it get the way it is. Friends of mine used to live in a largely Syrian area and there were never any problems until the Lebonese started arriving in their thousands. A lot of the ones are muslims, but not all of them. Since you live here you should know that the general idea is if the person is arabic, they're automatically assumed to be a muslim. Stereotypes are harmful.

no, non muslim, half of Lebannon is non muslim, so just because they are lebannese it doesn't make them muslims.

A lot of them are. You can't argue with the statistics sadly, thats just how it is.

so all arabs are muslims know right?

if oz and the US went to help, then why did the US bomb all the civilian properties when it invaded iraq? you've probably never heard of this? it was on SBS last year.

or you probaly have and just pretend you haven't just like before.

Oh i know. Such is war. The Americans are pretty bad, throughout all wars they've been known to bomb even their own troops.

no one want's you there in the first place, you have entered by force.

did Johnny receive any letter from the iraqi and afghani people to go there and help them? if no, then you have forced yourself there.

So letting the Taleban rule is a good thing? Im sure the soldiers would love to go home to their families rather than getting shot at by disgruntled civilians who've been taught to kill infidels.

you ask. you cannot know. unless you have studied islam. or are a muslim with great knowledge. like most of us muslims around here.

Why would we do that? Seems like a waste of time to me. Its Islams responsibility to control their flock.

so he should leave for insulting you?
then i too want to torture that idiot radio presenter for insulting me.

so whats it going to be?

see how the freedom of tought only makes things worse. it is the uneducated people that go bragging about the bussines of others.

He is a leader and influences others, he should leave. If our Prime-Minister said all Muslims carry bombs and should wear non-muslims clothing, you'd be pretty upset wouldn't you?

The radio person is an idiot, he needs to be sent to Iran to learn a thing or two about what he is insulting.

 

[YmirGF]

no you can't afford that. life is too short, so why waste it. enjoy it for as long as you are alive, i too will do the same.



funny. sure anything you say.

Eselam, do you realize how much rage and hatred is pouring out of you in these last few posts. I'm sort of used to you and I am a little surprised. My guess is that you are still very young. Under 20?