Modern man like footprints found, evolution theory in doubt.

[dad1]

LOL.

I've been in Jericho and, as a matter of fact, I was involved in a "dig" in 1998 just west of the town.

The "walls of Jericho have fallen many times, largely due to a fault line that runs near it plus expansion of buildings and the town itself. Contrary to what the article says, there's no way that a connection can be made that confirms the Biblical account, although there's no evidence that denies it either.

Instead of using that biased website, maybe check out BAR, which is a far better and more reliable source.

Regardless of what it says, you confirm the walls have fallen many times. You allude to a fault line also. So if the date when the walls did fall in the story was wrong, maybe that explains it?

 

[gnostic]

Once we discount the dream dates based only on beliefs that we have from so called science we are left with not being able to know.

The only person cooking are “dream dates” are you, dad1. You are the one squeeze 70,000,000 years into

I wrote this, which you quoted from me:

Humans living less than 10,000 years ago, their skeletal remains have less chance to fossilise.

And reply with this:

False. Your dates are wonky. In real time, your 70,000,000 years is about 4500 years. When you start talking 600 years before the flood where you try to place the flood before that time, you are really talking about post flood. The only issue is your wonky unsupported dates. All based on a same state past imagined decay. (or in some cases imagining things like tree tings to have grown in this nature etc)

First off, not once did I ever in my post, said anything about 70 million years.

To say accuse me of something that I didn’t say is lying, dad1.

I wrote 10,000 years, not 70 million years.

Second, The first settlement in Jericho the evidences showed it is 11,600 years ago or 9600 BCE. A date accepted by most archaeologists around the world, including those of Jewish and Christian backgrounds.

You have challenged the date with 3900 and 4150 years ago (which equate to 1900 BCE and 2150 BCE).

I have asked you, repeatedly, to present your evidences for these dates, or since you are not an archaeologist, to cite your “expert” sources.

My question, and I will repeat:

Where did you get these dates from?​

And with you latest reply to me, you still haven’t shown me where you get from, so the only assumptions I can make from you not answering my simple question are:

1. You have no sources, so that lead me to think...
2. ...you just made those numbers up.

Where did you get the numbers from?

If you can’t tell me where they come from, then the only person spinning “dream dates”, is you, dad1.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Only if we look at evidences as if they all came to exist in this state. You look at the fossil record and assume that if man existed we would see remains long ago. That is because you assume our current laws existed. End of story. Pretty lame.

Except all the evidence indicates that the laws WERE the same. What's lame about accepting the evidence?

Nothing to ignore. What you lack is evidence that there was a same nature. What you do not lack is beliefs and an overactive imagination that sprays evidences with the beliefs.

Once again, every fact we observe in nature is consistent with natural laws that we observe now. Give us one good reason to accept that they were different.

Your posts can be discounted, the bible cannot be in any sane way.

I assume this sentence is missing a word. Still, nice Freudian slip.

The first rulers of Egypt were supposed to be spirits. Having spirits among men is a trait of the former nature.

Ancient people claiming to be descended from spirits is not evidence.

The Sumerians recorded very very long life spans ( while we cannot take their records as gospel, the general long lives recorded do count as evidence).

Not really.

 

[gnostic]

The first rulers of Egypt were supposed to be spirits. Having spirits among men is a trait of the former nature. The Sumerians recorded very very long life spans ( while we cannot take their records as gospel, the general long lives recorded do count as evidence).

Are you actually comparing Genesis with religions and myths of other civilisations, to justify your religious ?

You do know there is a history component and religion component in Egypt and Sumer, but the religious stories are not history.

I am well aware of the myths of Egypt and Sumer. That’s not history, just as Genesis creation and flood stories are not history.

I know the Sumerian King List, I have read the translations of several versions. It is the names of each ruler ruling which city state in Sumerian that are important, not the very exaggerated durations of their reigns.

The Sumerian kings have only being around from 3050 or 2900 BCE to the end of 3rd dynasty of Ur in 2004. After this dynasty, the Amorites took over Babylon, ushering Babylonian hegemony in Mesopotamian Babylonia, and its 1st dynasty, from c 1830 to c 1531 BCE.

What archaeologists can match is some of the names in the king list to inscriptions at the city state they ruled, actual historical records, eg letters. It is these evidences that established the historical values of the Kings, not the mythological lengths of their reigns.

That’s how historians are able to weed out the myths and legends from history.

And it is the same with Egypt. Archaeologists and historians need to sort the history from the legends and myths.

Unfortunately, creationists, such as yourself, don’t know how to distinguish history from myths.

The 6-day creation, the story of Eden, the Flood and the Tower of Babel are all myths, with no historicity in any of them.

That because the values of Genesis are moral messages in these allegories. That’s the values of myths, which are similar in the ways Jesus tell his parables to his followers.

The problems are with YEC creationists treating Genesis as science and history books, but they failed in both departments.

Even weirder is how Christians, especially creationists treat prophecies and revelations (eg Book of Revelation) as literal.

What I find absurd is that all creationists shared a common trait. They treated science with a great amount of skepticism, but don’t bat eyelashes when it common to talking serpent or talking donkey, angels with wings and some that have 4 faces or the number of miracles that defy nature and science.

 

[gnostic]

Regardless of what it says, you confirm the walls have fallen many times. You allude to a fault line also. So if the date when the walls did fall in the story was wrong, maybe that explains it?

What haven’t been confirm is the city wall falling due to Joshua leading the Israelites in attacking Jericho.

In 1400 BCE, which around the time supposedly Joshua being the leader (after Moses’ death in 1407 BCE), Jericho was already abandoned and in ruin, for 1-and-a-half or 2 centuries.

Jericho doesn’t meet with Joshua’s timeline. According to Book of Joshua, Jericho wasn’t the only city captured during the so-called Israelite invasion in Canaan.

If such invasion took place, then there should be more archaeological signs of destruction, all around the same time.

There are no signs.

The invasion, post-Moses or post-1407 BCE, would have started place during the 18th dynasty (1543 - 1292 BCE), during the reign of Amenhotep II (1425 - 1398 BCE), while Moses exodus (Exodus 12) would have taken place in 1447 BCE.

But 1447 BCE would have have mean that the Israelites left Egypt during the reign of Amenhotep’s more famous father, Thutmose III (1479 - 1425 BCE).

The funny thing is that there are no records

1. of mass manumission of slaves, Israelites,
2. no records of mass exodus out of Egypt,
3. no mention of any Israelite or Hebrew,
4. no series of plagues and slaying of Egyptian first-born.

And more importantly - no Moses.

Thutmose was famous because after the death of his father, his stepmother, Hatshepsut (1479 - 1458 BCE) was equally famous as being the first woman to rule as “king”, was appointed as regent, since Thutmose was a child, at that time.

The thing is Thutmose was the 18th dynasty’s greatest king, because he took command of the armies, conquering Syria and Canaan. Canaan was part of Egypt empire during Thutmose and Amenhotep.

So if Joshua led the invasion after Moses’ death, why didn’t the Israelites encounter Amenhotep’s army that was garrisoned in Canaan?

Thutmose and Amenhotep are not weak kings. And the book of Joshua make no mention of Egyptian presence in Canaan.

So it is highly unlikely that the exodus and invasion ever taking place during the 15th century BCE.

And there is another problem to Exodus story, when comparing to the timeline of Egyptian history: that of Moses’ birth.

According to 1 Kings 6:1, the exodus took place 480 years before Solomon (970 - 931 BCE) began building the Temple, meaning 967 BCE. So 967 BCE + 480 years = 1447 BCE.

And since Moses was 80 years old when he left Egypt, this would mean he was born around 1527 BCE, in the time of Ahmose I (1549 - 1524 BCE), who was the founder of the 18th dynasty.

And according to Exodus 1, the unnamed king had 2 cities built, Pithom and Rameses.

The locations of both are uncertain, but Rameses is actually called Pi-Ramesses, translated as the “House of Ramesses”. “Ramesses” as in Ramesses II (reign 1279 - 1213, a son of Seti I (1290 - 1279 BCE); the city was named after this king.

Although he had this city built and named after him, Ramesses ruled from Thebes, like that of kings of the 17th and 18th dynasty.

So how can Rameses or Pi-Ramesses exist before the Israelite exodus and invasion, and 2 centuries before Ramesses II was king of Egypt????

And the exodus make no mention of any king by names.

Clearly the authors of both Exodus and Joshua screwed up, because they (OT) don’t match with actual history. This is why I think the Exodus and Book of Joshua are myths or legends.

 

[dad1]

The only person cooking are “dream dates” are you, dad1. You are the one squeeze 70,000,000 years into

I wrote this, which you quoted from me:


And reply with this:


First off, not once did I ever in my post, said anything about 70 million years.

To say accuse me of something that I didn’t say is lying, dad1.

To be clear the dates you cited are wonky. There was no 10,000 years ago. That is based on radioactive decay dream dates. The 70,000,000 years ago is when the flood happened probably, or about 4500 actual years ago. Therefore your 10,000 imaginary years ago includes the flood era.

Second, The first settlement in Jericho the evidences showed it is 11,600 years ago or 9600 BCE. A date accepted by most archaeologists around the world, including those of Jewish and Christian backgrounds.

Which part of your imaginary years are utterly garbage are you nor getting here?? You cannot support them, If you claim you can cut the whining and do it.

You have challenged the date with 3900 and 4150 years ago (which equate to 1900 BCE and 2150 BCE).

I have asked you, repeatedly, to present your evidences for these dates, or since you are not an archaeologist, to cite your “expert” sources.

Pick any dates you like the only thing anyone needs to focus on here is you defending the dates you claim from science. The bible dates are fairly well known I will stick to those thanks until you get evidence for some other dates. Until then stop rambling off dates that you can't support here. Forthwith.

/QUOTE]My question, and I will repeat:

Where did you get these dates from?[/QUOTE] Common bible approx dates.​

Hope you get the message clearly that no dates you offer have any value at all unless you both show the basis for the dates and can support them.

For the lurkers to save you time, here is the deal...he can't do either. All the dates rest mostly almost exclusively on radioactive decay, which only exists in the present nature. They need to show this nature existed and they can't.

 

[dad1]

Except all the evidence indicates that the laws WERE the same. What's lame about accepting the evidence?

Except there is not a single shred of such evidence anywhere and there never will be. Whatever was offered so far as evidence was not evidence for any same state in the past at all. It was a pile of beliefs piled up on each other.

Once again, every fact we observe in nature is consistent with natural laws that we observe now. Give us one good reason to accept that they were different.

That is false. No one observed the former nature, and compared it to this one. Nothing is consistent with anything but that which you observe NOW in this nature!

Ancient people claiming to be descended from spirits is not evidence.


Not really.

Yes, the records of the ancients and the bible about what life was like are clues to what life was like, despite your denial.

 

[dad1]

What haven’t been confirm is the city wall falling due to Joshua leading the Israelites in attacking Jericho.

You admitted it fell, no? Since your dates are obviously not supportable by you, why not allow one of the times they fell as when the battle happened? Either that or support your dates.

In 1400 BCE, which around the time supposedly Joshua being the leader (after Moses’ death in 1407 BCE), Jericho was already abandoned and in ruin, for 1-and-a-half or 2 centuries.

Proof? How do you know?

Jericho doesn’t meet with Joshua’s timeline. According to Book of Joshua, Jericho wasn’t the only city captured during the so-called Israelite invasion in Canaan.

If such invasion took place, then there should be more archaeological signs of destruction, all around the same time.

There are no signs.

OK, let's look at that. You expect every nearby city put up a big fight that would leave evidence? Is that your big thing here? Be clear.

The invasion, post-Moses or post-1407 BCE, would have started place during the 18th dynasty (1543 - 1292 BCE), during the reign of Amenhotep II (1425 - 1398 BCE), while Moses exodus (Exodus 12) would have taken place in 1447 BCE.

Support the dates or lose em. You know what Pharaoh was there when Moses was? Do tell.

But 1447 BCE would have have mean that the Israelites left Egypt during the reign of Amenhotep’s more famous father, Thutmose III (1479 - 1425 BCE).

The funny thing is that there are no records

1. of mass manumission of slaves, Israelites,
2. no records of mass exodus out of Egypt,
3. no mention of any Israelite or Hebrew,
4. no series of plagues and slaying of Egyptian first-born.

And more importantly - no Moses.

The Egyptian ruler was clobbered, humiliated. No surprise there are no records. You kidding?

Thutmose was famous because after the death of his father, his stepmother, Hatshepsut (1479 - 1458 BCE) was equally famous as being the first woman to rule as “king”, was appointed as regent, since Thutmose was a child, at that time.

The thing is Thutmose was the 18th dynasty’s greatest king, because he took command of the armies, conquering Syria and Canaan. Canaan was part of Egypt empire during Thutmose and Amenhotep.

So if Joshua led the invasion after Moses’ death, why didn’t the Israelites encounter Amenhotep’s army that was garrisoned in Canaan?

Maybe your dates are wrong? Maybe your Pharaoh is wrong?

Thutmose and Amenhotep are not weak kings. And the book of Joshua make no mention of Egyptian presence in Canaan.

So it is highly unlikely that the exodus and invasion ever taking place during the 15th century BCE.

Further possible evidence your date is wrong!?

And there is another problem to Exodus story, when comparing to the timeline of Egyptian history: that of Moses’ birth.

According to 1 Kings 6:1, the exodus took place 480 years before Solomon (970 - 931 BCE) began building the Temple, meaning 967 BCE. So 967 BCE + 480 years = 1447 BCE.

And since Moses was 80 years old when he left Egypt, this would mean he was born around 1527 BCE, in the time of Ahmose I (1549 - 1524 BCE), who was the founder of the 18th dynasty.

Just to check your facts here before proceeding, what are those dates based on? I am suspicious of anyone that even uses BCE by the way. I like BC.

And according to Exodus 1, the unnamed king had 2 cities built, Pithom and Rameses.

The locations of both are uncertain, but Rameses is actually called Pi-Ramesses, translated as the “House of Ramesses”. “Ramesses” as in Ramesses II (reign 1279 - 1213, a son of Seti I (1290 - 1279 BCE); the city was named after this king.

Although he had this city built and named after him, Ramesses ruled from Thebes, like that of kings of the 17th and 18th dynasty.

So how can Rameses or Pi-Ramesses exist before the Israelite exodus and invasion, and 2 centuries before Ramesses II was king of Egypt????

You say they don't even know where these cities are. What you say it may be called could also be wrong, or referring to something else?

Clearly the authors of both Exodus and Joshua screwed up, because they (OT) don’t match with actual history. This is why I think the Exodus and Book of Joshua are myths or legends.

Not your version of history. So when we see you support the dates, we can look at it.

 

[gnostic]

To be clear the dates you cited are wonky. There was no 10,000 years ago. That is based on radioactive decay dream dates. The 70,000,000 years ago is when the flood happened probably, or about 4500 actual years ago. Therefore your 10,000 imaginary years ago includes the flood era.

The only dates that are wonky or imaginary (dream) are yours.

70,000,000 does not equal to 4500 years. Time don’t work that way.

Either your date is 4500 years or 70 million years.

Where on earth do you get such bizarre logic? It is illogical, and baseless.

What you are talking about is nothing more than wishful thinking or just plain old, run of the mill delusion.

 

[gnostic]

Either that or support your dates.

All dates I have provided, are supported by the vast majority of archaeologists, including that of Christian backgrounds.

But religious belief is not science, and the bible is not history. There are no evidences whatsoever of invasion by Israelites in the 15th century.

You admitted it fell, no? Since your dates are obviously not supportable by you, why not allow one of the times they fell as when the battle happened?

I go by evidences that are verifiable, not by personal belief.

The dates don’t match with the archaeological evidences of when

What you asking of me, is “special pleading”. That’s a fallacy.

You are pleading that your claim and personal view should be treated as special case, exempted from scrutiny pr from being challenged.

Just to check your facts here before proceeding, what are those dates based on? I am suspicious of anyone that even uses BCE by the way. I like BC.

How on Earth that’s relevant?

BC or BCE...you would arrive at the same numbers, regardless if I use one or the other.

It is bl@@dy trivial.

Are you really going down that silly rabbit hole?

Support the dates or lose em. You know what Pharaoh was there when Moses was? Do tell.

It is supported by the king lists, and by many of monumental tombs constructed that archaeologists can use to date.

Unlike the pharaohs of the Old Kingdom and some at the Middle Kingdom, where they build pyramids, mostly at the necropolis Saqqara (3rd, 5th, 6th, etc; the 4th dynasty is in Giza), the tombs of the 18th and 19th dynasties were more like temples, or more precisely mortuary temples.

These tombs are located in the Valley of the Kings, near Thebes, the capital of Egypt, during the New Kingdom period.

When you compared the king list against the tombs made for these rulers or pharaohs with the inscriptions of their names, you can get a fairly precise dates, unlike the mythical genealogy of Genesis or the king list of Sumer.

You have not seen the king list of Egypt, so I don’t see how you can judge.

I think you are being a hypocrite. You tried to use king list of Sumer, to justified Genesis patriarchs’ long life. And you would use the genealogy of Genesis 5 & 11, but when I used the king list of Egypt, you dismissed them out of hand.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Except there is not a single shred of such evidence anywhere and there never will be. Whatever was offered so far as evidence was not evidence for any same state in the past at all. It was a pile of beliefs piled up on each other.

Once again, every single thing we have ever observed in nature is consistent with a Universe that has a specific set of rules that have remained the same. Nothing we have ever found indicates in any way that the physical laws in the past were different. Please demonstrate otherwise.

That is false. No one observed the former nature, and compared it to this one. Nothing is consistent with anything but that which you observe NOW in this nature!

Do you not understand how evidence works?

Yes, the records of the ancients and the bible about what life was like are clues to what life was like, despite your denial.

And despite the fact that the Bible is not a contemporary account of any of the times it supposedly talks about, so it suffers from the exact same problems you accuse modern science of having. Nobody who wrote the Bible was present at any of the events that the Bible describes, so we can dismiss the whole thing. Correct?

 

[dad1]

The only dates that are wonky or imaginary (dream) are yours.

Your problem is that the bible date estimates you cannot refute, and your decay dream dates you cannot begin to support, as your posts demonstrate.

70,000,000 does not equal to 4500 years. Time don’t work that way.

Either your date is 4500 years or 70 million years.

No, it is both. The dates of science are religious conjecture and are ALL based on the same belief in their claimed nature in the past that cannot be proven in any way.

The error curve using the fictitious dates based on the same nature in the past grow radically as we leave the time that our nature actually existed. By the time the get to the flood era, thir imaginary dates get to about 70,000,000 imaginary faith based years. In real time that is about 4500 years, I use either time freely, because people familiar with science get a better mental picture of the time in question when we use their fantasy dates.

You have one option here, defend and support your dates or remain exposed as preaching fables and fantasy dates.

 

[dad1]

All dates I have provided, are supported by the vast majority of archaeologists, including that of Christian backgrounds.

Who ALL use the same belief to date. That is not support, that is religion.

But religious belief is not science

My point exactly, so you would need to show the dates you repeat incessantly have some merit.

and the bible is not history.

You posting some baseless statement is not history.

There are no evidences whatsoever of invasion by Israelites in the 15th century.

Since your dating powers are severely flawed, you saying a date loses any significance at all.

Show the method used to label it the '15th century'. If you talk about 1500 real years before Christ, then you run into problems also because the correlations to your decay dating methods, like tree rings and etc come into play, and would be affected by the recent nature change. That dulls your ability to date even in this nature early on!

I go by evidences that are verifiable, not by personal belief.

Nor can they be posted apparently. So far all you do is allude to them.

The dates don’t match with the archaeological evidences of when

What you asking of me, is “special pleading”. That’s a fallacy.

You don't know dates, get over it. Show the basis and support for all dates you try to use.

You are pleading that your claim and personal view should be treated as special case, exempted from scrutiny pr from being challenged.

False, please please please challenge me by supporting your belief system you thought was science.

How on Earth that’s relevant?

BC or BCE...you would arrive at the same numbers, regardless if I use one or the other.

Since the old testament was all about Christ as well as the new testament, and the future also, As is history, one cannot ignore the central issue in life, history, and knowledge. To miss that is to show deep ignorance of history. That is why I don't like BCE.

It is supported by the king lists,

Wonderful you dare to try and use king list dates!!!! Ha. We can start with the fact that the Turin list cites spirits as the earliest rulers of Egypt. You claim spooks ruled? Really? That is your documentary evidence? I could go on, but you might do well to desperately try to avoid the issue.

Which bring us back to how the dates were really gotten, your same state past nature religion. I kid you not.

and by many of monumental tombs constructed that archaeologists can use to date.

Only by the tired, same ol same ol religion.

Unlike the pharaohs of the Old Kingdom and some at the Middle Kingdom, where they build pyramids, mostly at the necropolis Saqqara (3rd, 5th, 6th, etc; the 4th dynasty is in Giza), the tombs of the 18th and 19th dynasties were more like temples, or more precisely mortuary temples.

So what? That doesn't help your dream dating endeavors.

When you compared the king list against the tombs made for these rulers or pharaohs with the inscriptions of their names, you can get a fairly precise dates, unlike the mythical genealogy of Genesis or the king list of Sumer.

Fantastic, you really want to pursue that line of rational. Go for it! Show me where names on a list and pyramid match, and give dates somehow?

You have not seen the king list of Egypt, so I don’t see how you can judge.

You tried to use king list of Sumer, to justified Genesis patriarchs’ long life.

Only with the proviso that they actual recorded times could not be trusted being from gentile unbelievers of the day. However, the general fact that extreme long lives were part of the record does evidence that something was very much different in that day from the nature we have now.

If you want to use the king list to show that some kings existed (whether or not they lived contemporaneously rather than sequentially in some cases) fine. How long ago they lived cannot be determined by any king list and a simple search on the issue will show that no one even tries that, and disavows it as a reliable dating source even. They use the religious same nature past methods exclusively for dates! Ha

 

[dad1]

Once again, every single thing we have ever observed in nature is consistent with a Universe that has a specific set of rules that have remained the same. Nothing we have ever found indicates in any way that the physical laws in the past were different. Please demonstrate otherwise.

Only inside the circular reasoning closed heads of those who cling fanatically to the religion of belief in an unproven same state past! Looking at any evidence in an unbiased, fair minded way, nothing looks the way you claim at all.

Do you not understand how evidence works?

Yes, it must be separated from your belief set.

And despite the fact that the Bible is not a contemporary account of any of the times it supposedly talks about, so it suffers from the exact same problems you accuse modern science of having. Nobody who wrote the Bible was present at any of the events that the Bible describes, so we can dismiss the whole thing. Correct?

God wrote the bible and He was here before the word was and will be here after the current nature ceases to exist. He is contemporary with all ages!

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Only inside the circular reasoning closed heads of those who cling fanatically to the religion of belief in an unproven same state past! Looking at any evidence in an unbiased, fair minded way, nothing looks the way you claim at all.

Please demonstrate this.

Yes, it must be separated from your belief set.

And exactly what is my "belief set"?

God wrote the bible and He was here before the word was and will be here after the current nature ceases to exist. He is contemporary with all ages!

Were you present when God wrote the Bible? Do you have any proof whatsoever that God wrote it?

 

[ChristineM]

God wrote the bible and He was here before the word was and will be here after the current nature ceases to exist. He is contemporary with all ages!

Funny that... I've never read a gospel according to god. Which book of the bible is it in?

 

[gnostic]

We can start with the fact that the Turin list cites spirits as the earliest rulers of Egypt. You claim spooks ruled? Really? That is your documentary evidence? I could go on, but you might do well to desperately try to avoid the issue.

You are being absurd.

You are missing the points of my reply, dad1.

You are forgetting where I say that some of the names can be verified by the tombs built for these rulers.

And my point was regarding to human rulers, who were born, lived, reigned, and lastly died and buried. I was talking about spirits or gods, dad1.

Yes, the Turin contained some names of mythical gods, spirits and kings, 2 columns of these, but the rest of the King List contained historical rulers that you compare to the inscriptions found at burial sites (mastabas, pyramids, mortuary temples, etc) of various necropolis locations (Umm el-Qa’ab (near Abydos), Saqqara, Dahshur, Abusir, Giza, Valley of the Kings, etc).

Tombs often contained names of the rulers it buried, as well as some for their queens and even occasional mother (like a pyramid for Teti’s mother, of the 6th dynasty).

Now, I am not concern with the mythical names of spirits or deities in the Turin King List, because from column 3 and onwards we have a list of names, written in hieratic, of kings from the 1st dynasty to the 17th dynasty; “human” kings.

The 1st name of “human” king was Menes, the 1st king of the 1st dynasty, written as transliteration as “Meni”. Most Egyptologists think that this Menes is the same person as Narmer. Whether he goes by the name Menes or Narmer, he was one who united two kingdoms (Upper Egypt and Lower Egypt) into a single state.

His burial chamber was found in the necropolis Umm el-Qa’ab, near Abydos, a capital of Egypt at that time. His name as Narmer is found in column 3 on the Turin papyrus, next to the burial chamber of his son, Hor-Aha, in the Turin list as “Teti”.

Other 1st dynasty rulers, and a couple of 2nd dynasty kings, their tombs have been found in Umm El-Qa’ab too, and their names match those on the Turin King List, and on the Abydos King List, each name in cartouche of hieroglyphs.

That the names and order of names, between 2 different king lists, is another verification of the kings’ existence as the historical figures.

So Menes isn’t a spirit.

And you are being hypocritical, dad1.

The Turin King List may contain some names of mythological figures, such as gods and spirits, but if you look at the Genesis genealogy (5 and 11, plus that of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and of course Jacob’s sons, since none of them have evidences that match anything related to historical and archaeological timeline, then all you got is a myth.

For instance, there is the cave of Machpelah, which Abraham used as tomb for Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Rebecca, Jacob and Leah, but a building was built during Herod’s time, with further additions by Muslim rulers over time. But there are no inscriptions whatsoever, dating back to early 2nd millennium BCE, to indicate who were buried there, if any.

The only names found there were written in the 12th century CE, by a monk, who supposedly found bones there, which he thought were bones of the patriarchs.

More recent entry into the “cave” in 1967, and later in 1981. The last entry, found chambers, one square in shape, the innermost chamber, oval in shape. All they found were some broken pottery and a wine jug, revealed no bones.

At least with the King Lists, we know know the chronological orders of the successive kings match up the timeline of those tombs archaeologists have managed to uncover or discover.

The same cannot said about anything the contents of Genesis and Exodus, or that of the book of Joshua.

 

[gnostic]

Oops! I’ve double posted.

 

[dad1]

Please demonstrate this.

Easy to do. The assumption of the same physics and nature in the past is used to model the past. Yet you cannot show us there was a same nature in the past.

And exactly what is my "belief set"?

In science, it is as above.

Were you present when God wrote the Bible? Do you have any proof whatsoever that God wrote it?

Jesus proved that.

 

[dad1]

Funny that... I've never read a gospel according to god. Which book of the bible is it in?

Which isn't it?