Mob sacks Hindu temple in Pakistan over blasphemy row

[Shakeel]

Good thing it's the same report by Aljazeera and Reuters.

Are they not international?

Anyway, my point isn't that there's something wrong with the story. I just happen to know that international news are filled with errors and distortions.

 

[Shakeel]

Please note that I have nothing against common Pakistani people. We have 'nearly' the same culture. We are both mad about cricket. We love the music and poetry which is common to us. The problem is their Saudi-trained clerics and the military establishment which rules the country. No one believes in their democracy, Prime Ministers can easily be dislodged and even murdered (Bhutto was hanged and his daughter was murdered). Terrorist activities are actively encouraged, in India, in Afghanistan, as well as elsewhere.

And that's completely superfluous - the Indians have their own terrorists.

Yes, yes, we know. You love India. Indian people can do no wrong - when it's against muslims. It's a kind of willful blindness.

 

[Vinayaka]

A false assumption that's always made, but no. Just because someone lives in a place doesn't mean they know everything that goes on.

Even moreso if it's a rather larger country. In Pakistan, the Hindus are concentrated in a few states close to the India border. I'm in Canada and I don't pretend to know the politics of Quebec., 2000 miles to the east, primarily speaking another language. India, being close to 1.3 billion, is notorious for not knowing what people are like in other states.

 

[stvdv]

They have the Internet though. They've heard your point. I don't think it's about knowledge at all. People do stupid things in groups. It happens everywhere - this just catches your attention.

True, they have the internet. Though, like you mentioned before, news nowadays is not the most reliable source, but maybe better than nothing

Maybe it's not only about knowledge. But brainwashing people has been done for ages a lot (Christianity, Hinduism as well as Islam and probably it happens in Atheism too). And after having been brainwashed, I know from personal experience that knowledge for sure has been helpful to me to solve a few of these things I was brainwashed with

And let's not forget that there are major problems between the Muslims and the Indian people

Yes, I agree that it's good to not forget this, hence reminders such as @danieldemol and others share are useful
And I do hope that people soon find a way to solve these problems; the sooner the better

 

[firedragon]

Why do you pick up Pakistan stories, Danieldemol? It is a mad state born out of hate and it lives in hate. How can anything good come out of it? For them, it does not matter if someone is Hindu, Christian, Sikh, Ahmadiyya or Shia. They will persecute all till none is left.

Haha. Maybe he should have focused on some Indian stories right? Like the Babri mosque episode?

Ah, no no no. It does not support your feelings.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Whilst I agree. Does it count if you blaspheme against a god you believe is false? In that person’s eyes I mean

But then the problem becomes even contemplating the targeting of the "young Hindu boy accused of blasphemy." If a person can reason that they don't feel they have "blasphemed" against a god they believe is false (when they destroy an alternative religion's temple for instance), then how can they not extend the same to the other person (the Hindu boy in this case) who would likely believe Allah/Islam to be "false?" Still hypocrisy by that simple standard, unfortunately.

 

[SomeRandom]

But then the problem becomes even contemplating the targeting of the "young Hindu boy accused of blasphemy." If a person can reason that they don't feel they have "blasphemed" against a god they believe is false (when they destroy an alternative religion's temple for instance), then how can they not extend the same to the other person (the Hindu boy in this case) who would likely believe Allah/Islam to be "false?" Still hypocrisy by that simple standard, unfortunately.

I would agree. Religion is emotionally fuelled. I would think this mob was motivated by pure blind rage.

 

[stvdv]

And let's not forget that there are major problems between the Muslims and the Indian people.

A Muslim lady explains what life is like in India | Subuhi Khan ji (1 min)

 

[stvdv]

Whilst I agree. Does it count if you blaspheme against a god you believe is false? In that person’s eyes I mean

Who determines when someone blasphemes (about God)?
Seems obvious to me, that this is God's business. Only God knows how God feels.

blaspheming

1. 
   speak irreverently about God or sacred things

Humans can't even define God and humans can't 'picture' God
Christianity...no Golden Calf. And Islam...just remember Muhammad picture contest

In a way it's funny (but of course horrible) that those 2 are so big on killing blasphemers, while blaspheming themselves in the process (IMO)

Let God deal with blasphemers. Unless you think God is incapable of dealing with such things by Himself. But usually God is attributed Omniscience and Omnipotence and Omnipresence, hence this is a very unlikely scenario

Also
1) do you think any human is capable to deal with "God being blasphemed"?
2) IF blaspheming is defined "sitting on God's chair, pretending you know what God will do/feel etc" THEN judging blasphemers is blaspheming

So, whichevery way you turn this, killing those that blaspheme (in your opinion) makes no sense at all

 

[SomeRandom]

Who determines when someone blasphemes (about God)?
Seems obvious to me, that this is God's business. Only God knows how God feels.


Humans can't even define God and humans can't 'picture' God
Christianity...no Golden Calf. And Islam...just remember Muhammad picture contest

In a way it's funny (but of course horrible) that those 2 are so big on killing blasphemers, while blaspheming themselves in the process (IMO)

Let God deal with blasphemers. Unless you think God is incapable of dealing with such things by Himself. But usually God is attributed Omniscience and Omnipotence and Omnipresence, hence this is a very unlikely scenario

Also
1) do you think any human is capable to deal with "God being blasphemed"?
2) IF blaspheming is defined "sitting on God's chair, pretending you know what God will do/feel etc" THEN judging blasphemers is blaspheming

So, whichevery way you turn this, killing those that blaspheme (in your opinion) makes no sense at all

Umm you know I’m a born Hindu, right? Why the hell would I justify the killing of anyone who blasphemes. I never said anything about killing people who blaspheme. What are you talking about?
I was only playing Devil’s Advocate for discussion purposes

 

[danieldemol]

Are they not international?

Anyway, my point isn't that there's something wrong with the story. I just happen to know that international news are filled with errors and distortions.

So you are making an accusation without even knowing of any errors?

 

[danieldemol]

Haha. Maybe he should have focused on some Indian stories right? Like the Babri mosque episode?

Ah, no no no. It does not support your feelings.

I generally won't cover a story that has been covered by someone else first. @Aupmanyav beat me to it;

Ayodhya/Babri Mosque juedgment Tomrrow at 10.30 A.M.

 

[firedragon]

I generally won't cover a story that has been covered by someone else first. @Aupmanyav beat me to it;

Ayodhya/Babri Mosque juedgment Tomrrow at 10.30 A.M.

That was not actually meant for you Daniel. It was meant for his dismissal of Pakistan due to their rivalry but ignoring his own. When you make a whole people something like that, its the definition of bigotry.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Haha. Maybe he should have focused on some Indian stories right? Like the Babri mosque episode?

There are thousands of temples, churches, synagogues, Atish Behram, which were destroyed by Muslims, some which were important to the worshipers of other religions for various reason, Hagia Sophia for example.

There are many other mosques in Ayodhya. Babri Mosque was an unused structure.
"No scope for squatters rights, the Muslim side’s failure to prove the Babri Masjid was built on the ruins of an Islamic structure, the fact that only a portion of the site was used for prayers, and an over 300-year period when namaz was not offered at the Ram Janmabhoomi site."
4 reasons why SC rejected Muslims' claim on Ram Janmabhoomi site

Ayodhya Muslims have been given land which is exactly ten times larger than that of the entire mosque area, and twenty times the area of the actual mosque (Babri Masjid - Wikipedia) - 14,500 Sq. Yds. They are building a beautiful mosque complex there, which will include a hospital. We know how to resolve disputes.
10th trustee appointed for Ayodhya mosque project

 

[firedragon]

There are thousands of temples, churches, synagogues, Atish Behram, which were destroyed by Muslims, some which were important to the worshipers of other religions for various reason, Hagia Sophia for example.

There are many other mosques in Ayodhya.
"No scope for squatters rights, the Muslim side’s failure to prove the Babri Masjid was built on the ruins of an Islamic structure, the fact that only a portion of the site was used for prayers, and an over 300-year period when namaz was not offered at the Ram Janmabhoomi site."
4 reasons why SC rejected Muslims' claim on Ram Janmabhoomi site

Ramjanma Bhoomi / Babri mosque was one of them. Ayodhya Muslims have been given land which is exactly ten times larger than that of the original mosque (Babri Masjid - Wikipedia). They are building a beautiful mosque complex there, which will include a hospital. We know how to resolve disputes.
10th trustee appointed for Ayodhya mosque project

Still, this happened.

1: You murdered a man so you are condemned to incarceration.
2: But I spared every other human in the world.
1. But still you are going to jail.

).

 

[stvdv]

Umm you know I’m a born Hindu, right?

Well, no I don't know, should I know ... it's very white under your "ratings: +8242"' where others have added "Religion: xxx"
But now I know, well from hearsay, though first hand, but still in virtual reality.
But I trust you, so yes, now I know, and I won't forget (Deo volente)

 

[stvdv]

The protesters appear not to have considered the hypocrisy of their own actions in blaspheming a Hindu temple.
This suggests to me that blasphemy laws are just hypocrisy for the targeting of minorities.
In my opinion.

Whilst I agree. Does it count if you blaspheme against a god you believe is false? In that person’s eyes I mean

I agree with this, it definitely does not count as blasphemy "if you don't believe in that God", from my POV

And because I liked what you did, I decided/enjoyed upping your Game
Adding my below quote as another example/evidence why blasphemer-killers better think twice before they kill

Who determines when someone blasphemes (about God)?
Seems obvious to me, that this is God's business. Only God knows how God feels.

Umm you know I’m a born Hindu, right?

Why the hell would I justify the killing of anyone who blasphemes. I never said anything about killing people who blaspheme. What are you talking about?

I think you misinterpreted what I wrote, or I was unclear ... I meant the opposite from what you thought
Did I really say that "you said anything about killing people who blaspheme", where did you get that from?
I just added another evidence to consider for these killers (at least that is what I thought)

First you said "whilst I agree"
Quite obvious to me, so I assumed we are on the same line.
Then you said "Does it count if you blaspheme against a god you believe is false?"
This does not count as blasphemy, hence I assumed we are still on the same line, agreeing on both things

I was only playing Devil’s Advocate for discussion purposes

That much I guessed already when replying, hence I enjoyed upping your Game
We were so much on the same line, that I decided to back you up with another evidence
(Was I playing 'the Devil's Advocate' too? )

Spoiler: And I added all these lines to clarify my point

Who determines when someone blasphemes (about God)?
Seems obvious to me, that this is God's business. Only God knows how God feels.

blaspheming

1. 
   speak irreverently about God or sacred things

Humans can't even define God and humans can't 'picture' God
Christianity...no Golden Calf. And Islam...just remember Muhammad picture contest

In a way it's funny (but of course horrible) that those 2 are so big on killing blasphemers, while blaspheming themselves in the process (IMO)

Let God deal with blasphemers. Unless you think God is incapable of dealing with such things by Himself. But usually God is attributed Omniscience and Omnipotence and Omnipresence, hence this is a very unlikely scenario

Also
1) do you think any human is capable to deal with "God being blasphemed"?
2) IF blaspheming is defined "sitting on God's chair, pretending you know what God will do/feel etc" THEN judging blasphemers is blaspheming

So, whichevery way you turn this, killing those that blaspheme (in your opinion) makes no sense at all

 

[SomeRandom]

I agree with this, it definitely does not count as blasphemy "if you don't believe in that God", from my POV

And because I liked what you did, I decided/enjoyed upping your Game
Adding my below quote as another example/evidence why blasphemer-killers better think twice before they kill





I think you misinterpreted what I wrote, or I was unclear ... I meant the opposite from what you thought
Did I really say that "you said anything about killing people who blaspheme", where did you get that from?
I just added another evidence to consider for these killers (at least that is what I thought)

First you said "whilst I agree"
Quite obvious to me, so I assumed we are on the same line.
Then you said "Does it count if you blaspheme against a god you believe is false?"
This does not count as blasphemy, hence I assumed we are still on the same line, agreeing on both things


That much I guessed already when replying, hence I enjoyed upping your Game
We were so much on the same line, that I decided to back you up with another evidence
(Was I playing 'the Devil's Advocate' too? )

Ahh fair enough