Misconception:Why Allah is "He" in the Quran Translation? (my requwst to all)

[Sahar]

But dear Summia, why exactly should we care what you and other Muslims think on this matter.

Why should you, you tell me? Your response says that you care in a way or another.

Summia no one who has EVER lived has proven that "god" even exist and yet you insist that we bow to your specific viewpoint. That is both illogical and irrational. I am sure you realize that though as you are a bright young lady.

Oh I get it. So, what you are saying is that if people do not agree with you then we should just keep quiet because your view is correct and obviously no one else has the slightest idea what they are talking about. When this is dovetailed with your insistance that you are here to learn one can only conclude that you are being a teeny bit disengenuous. Since you are a clever nymph you can understand that this is a somewhat myopic stance to take and in essence you are demanding that we speak within the confines of dhimmitude. Sorry, I do not bow to dhimmitude.

Dhimmitude? :areyoucra :areyoucra

Dhimmitude:

Bat Yeor's definition:

"As for the concept of dhimmitude, it represents a behavior dictated by fear (terrorism), pacifism when aggressed, rather than resistance, servility because of cowardice and vulnerability. The origin of this concept is to be found in the condition of the Infidel people who submit to the Islamic rule without fighting in order to avoid the onslaught of jihad. By their peaceful surrender to the Islamic army, they obtained the security for their life, belongings and religion, but they had to accept a condition of inferiority, spoliation and humiliation. As they were forbidden to possess weapons and give testimony against a Muslim, they were put in a position of vulnerability and humility."

Robert Spencer author of the The Myth of Islamic Tolerance defines dhimmitude as :

Dhimmitude is the status that Islamic law, the Sharia, mandates for non-Muslims, primarily Jews and Christians. Dhimmis, “protected” or “guilty” people, are free to practice their religion in a Sharia regime, but are made subject to a number of humiliating regulations designed to enforce the Qur'an's command that they "feel themselves subdued" (Sura 9:29). This denial of equality of rights and dignity remains part of the Sharia, and, as such, are part of the legal superstructure that global jihadists are laboring through violence to restore everywhere in the Islamic world, and wish ultimately to impose on the entire human race. :flirt:

I wish if you can help me and tell me if the above is relevant to the topic of this thread as i suffer from severe myopia! Or it's so hard to stay on the same topic these days!

 

[Sahar]

I don't know what you mean Summia; referring to God as "he" is disrespectful or why using the pronoun "he" not "she" or "it"?

 

[YmirGF]

I don't know what you mean Summia; referring to God as "he" is disrespectful or why using the pronoun "he" not "she" or "it"?

Precisely. It is unreasonable to insist on one term or another in regards to a being that NO ONE has ever proven to exist. If we assume that "god" is the creator of all or gave "birth" to all of creation (and here I am not meaning a phyiscal birth) then why not refer to that entity as "she". Early homo sapiens had no difficulty viewing "god" as the Divine Mother or the Earth Mother. So what exactly is the problem today. The problem today (and for the last few millenia) is that we have these nifty books that say otherwise. The curious thing is that these works of man are deemed to be the "Wog" or "word of god" and are therefore infallible. Since they cannot be wrong, then no one else can be right. I can't help but conclude we are short-changing ourselves because when you are steadfast in a certain mindset then you will automatically ignore all data to the contrary and that is not particularly wise.

 

[YmirGF]

No No Sir, I don't think so!
Here is a clear rule first rule of the forum
That's what I said, and I not only said but I "request" at my OP

Hehe. Summia, much to the vexation of the Admins I am entirely aware of the rules of RF. There is little doubt that I understand them better than most others. I might bend them on occasion, but I almost never break them outright. To date I have received one warning only and that is because I accidentally posted in Hinduism ONLY thread. It was a minor infraction and I wrote a good natured response to the person who handed down the warning. All is love and kisses again.
But on to your to the misguided OP.

I hav came across during my discussion here at the forum and I hav noticed about this topic is really rising question among non Muslims.
I can bear my insult, it’s Okay, I can apologize whether I’m at the mistake or not…..
But I can’t bear about What Non_Muslims insulting the name of Allah Almighty by saying different Phrases such as “If Allah has beard, if he is he”. As on this thread....
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum...t=55364&page=2
It is such a cursing words about Allah Almighty and This Thread is to clearly mention all my religious fellows about this misconception:

It is interesting that you find such an evolved soul such as Popeyesays to be insulting God by his amusing reference. Once again, Summia, shouldn't you let GOD decide what he finds insulting. In essence you are stating a problem that does not exist. You must understand that dear Scott (Popeyesays) is a learned fellow who has been around the block more than a few times. I have no doubt that Scott's heart fully embraces his vision of God and it is unlikely, rather, ridiculous to assume that he would make a statement that was insulting to HIS OWN God. Get my drift? I did get a chuckle over you describing this as "cursing". That is definitely amusing.
For some reason however you find it insulting. Why? Do other Muslims feel insulted or is this merely much ado about nothing. Frankly I'd lay off and let God decide what ticks him off and stick to topics you may be able to make intelligent remarks about.

Quran was revealed in Arabic not in English or any other language:
In Arabic language word “He” is “Huwwa” هُوَ
And
“She” is mentioned as “Hiyya” هِيَ
And there is no verse in Quran that uses the word “Huwwa” for Allah Almighty but it rather uses the word “Huwwa al” هُوَٱلْ
or “Huwwa (some praise about Allah Almighty)” وَهُوَ ٱلْعَزِيزُyou can check in different verses.

You are correct, "God" is neither male nor female and It is more alien than human if we were to compare the two. "God" is simply not like us. To be truthful the ONLY accurate description when referring to god would be to call it "IT" as It does not have male/female attributes as we think of them either in a personality sense or in a physical sense (my apologies to the Mormons -- who believe God is a physical being in the form of a male). So, as someone posted using "It" when referring to "God" is perfectly acceptable and certainly more accurate that using “He“ or “She“.

If you not found these words then you can ask to any Scholar (Who translated Quran) about this matter. He will surly say that
“You MUST understand Arabic to totally understanding of Quran”.

That is simply not true Summia. I have read a lot of Islamic “literature“. I understand Islam just fine. Let's put it this way, I know enough about Islam to conclude that I will never -- ever -- become a Muslim. Just as Christianity or Buddhism is ludicrous from your standpoint, Islam is from mine. Is that so hard to understand? I do like to chat to the various Muslims on this site however and we normally get along fairly well. We do have a mutual respect that is not feigned and certainly seems genuine enough. I was hoping you were open to friendly dialogues that are more interesting than the norm. Apparently not.

Sense about using “He” for Allah Almighty:
There is no English word to express the person (or you may say “personality terms”) for God. There is none!
We can choose either first person, second person or third person. And most better choice is choosing “He” for Allah almighty not “he”…..
What is the difference between “He” and “he”?
The different between “He” and “he” is:
“He” represent “Proper noun” (means only He is someone special not other like Him)
“he” represent “common noun” (means many are like him, he can be any one)
whenever you look the Translation os Holy verses of Quran it will use the English word “He” for Allah Almighty not “he”…..

You do realize how amusing it is to have a person who is still learning English explain English parts of speech to an English speaking audience, correct? Pssst, we already know Summia, but it is nice to see that you are aware of the "rules" as it were. It is a start.

My request:
Allah Almighty is neither “He” nor “She” but “only one, nothing equal to him”
http://javascript<b></b>:Open_Menu()
So, I hope you wil avoid while using these cursing Phrases about Allah Almighty.

I suspect you have cut and pasted several parts of the above because the attention to English grammar and spelling is substantially higher than is usual in your posts. Clearly, Summia, you MUST deal with the fact that others do not see things as you do. If you grow to understand that then your anger/frustration or whatever will lessen. Leave this type of thing for God and let It decide how It feels about Its various appellations. I doubt that It much cares what we call It as long as we remember It. Sound reasonable?


PS: I am not stalking your posts, lol. The truth is that RF threads are so dull that yours are the only ones I found worthy of taking part in. Ah well. I never claim to be right unlike so many others here on RF. I know I could be wrong and it is a great pity that more people did not approach discussions from the same standpoint. There certainly would be a lot less fur flying about the place for FeathersInHair and Mike182 to clean up. :flirt:

 

[Runt]

But on to your to the misguided OP.

Frankly I'd lay off and let God decide what ticks him off and stick to topics you may be able to make intelligent remarks about.

You do realize how amusing it is to have a person who is still learning English explain English parts of speech to an English speaking audience, correct? Pssst, we already know Summia, but it is nice to see that you are aware of the "rules" as it were. It is a start.

I suspect you have cut and pasted several parts of the above because the attention to English grammar and spelling is substantially higher than is usual in your posts.

Leave this type of thing for God and let It decide how It feels about Its various appellations. I doubt that It much cares what we call It as long as we remember It. Sound reasonable?

You seem to take an inordinate delight in patronizing, belittling and antagonizing others. Does it make you feel superior to paint them as inferior?

 

[YmirGF]

You seem to take an inordinate delight in patronizing, belittling and antagonizing others. Does it make you feel superior to paint them as inferior?

Granted it is akin to shooting fish in a barrell but the threads on RF are rather dull of late. You outta meet me in person, lol.

 

[Runt]

Granted it is akin to shooting fish in a barrell but the threads on RF are rather dull of late. You outta meet me in person, lol.

I have a friend who once tried to use boredom as a justification for slowly running over pigeons with his Toyota...

 

[Mary23]

Summia why are you caring YmirGf's posts. He always talk out of topic. I said he is "Happy fool" and he has no religion. He is not counted among major religious people why are you taking care of him. Have you not see "He is not ready to debate with you at the topic of 'Is God exists or not'"
He is ignoring your comments and putting his own views. I say you must not reply his posts. He is near to death and therefore he is behaving you so. He don't know that "It is prohibited to point out the behaviour":yes:
Ignore him, it is my sincere advice to you. I know Summia you are angry with me. but it is true that "This guy is Satan nothing else"

 

[summia]

Although the word "it" is used in English most often in reference to inanimate objects and animals, we also commonly use the word to refer to human beings whose gender we do not know (sometimes we'll call an unborn baby "it" before the child's sex is determined) and concepts of the divine (Brahman and Tao are both commonly referred to with the word "it" for example.) Although "it" may seem impersonal and somewhat disrespectful, I think "It" (capitalized) may be appropriate when referring to Allah, if Allah lacks gender and yet possesses a personality. The only other options I can think of are referring to Allah is He or She (both of which are misleading), he or she (both of which you find disrespectful), it (which you find extremely disrespectful) or Allah (which can get redundant very quickly in a conversation).

Yes, you r right at your accord that in common english we used "it" as the thing whose sex is not knows. I totally agree.
But I hav mentioned at OP about Arabic sense. In Arabic Allah is mentioned as "Huwwa al" while translating it in english it dose not soud as "he" or "she" or "it" it pronounced some thing beyond the first, secon or third noun. If we say "it" then it will be wrong translation in basic english language litrature, Although we can say "it".
The main point is not there "there is insult in saying Allah 'he' or 'He' but the main disrespecfull thing is 'why people pharse at the name of 'Allah is He' why not she or 'it' '"
And I think it is the great misconception while ignoring Arabic text. I hav graduated in Scriptural languages and surly you will find something different on my threads. coz a very long period people hav to face a "Scriptural Reader"

[/color]I don't think referring to Allah with a lowercase pronoun or an incorrect pronoun constitutes a breach of the forum rules.

NAy! Runt!
PLz my this purpose of putting rule was 'not to adress you' as you will see i never adress you by putting rule.
I was adressing to YmirGf about "he always made personal attacks on me"
I don't know why! I'm also curious, Why is he behaving so with me!

 

[summia]

I don't know what you mean Summia; referring to God as "he" is disrespectful or why using the pronoun "he" not "she" or "it"?

Herez

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/science-vs-religion/55364-quran-speed-light-2.html

If you visited this thread and post nomber 11.....

I sometimes wonder if God/Allah isn't chuckling in his beard (if he is a he and if he has a beard)”

After this I think You will also feel the need of this Thread!

Therez no humiliation while saying Allah is he or HE but if non Muslims will made this point while putting pharases, then I think we must clreafy about the misconceptins.
Don't you think so???

 

[summia]

Precisely. It is unreasonable to insist on one term or another in regards to a being that NO ONE has ever proven to exist. If we assume that "god" is the creator of all or gave "birth" to all of creation (and here I am not meaning a phyiscal birth) then why not refer to that entity as "she". .

First point:
Where is it written that Allah gave 'birth' to all creature??
It is not in any authentic Islamic Book (Quran & Hadeeth) even not in the Muslim's world.
Rather you will find many evidences that Allah is the "Creator" "Maker" of all creature...

{ &#1610;&#1614;&#1575;&#1571;&#1614;&#1610;&#1617;&#1615;&#1607;&#1614;&#1575; &#1649;&#1604;&#1606;&#1617;&#1614;&#1575;&#1587;&#1615; &#1649;&#1593;&#1618;&#1576;&#1615;&#1583;&#1615;&#1608;&#1575;&#1618; &#1585;&#1614;&#1576;&#1617;&#1614;&#1603;&#1615;&#1605;&#1615; &#1649;&#1604;&#1617;&#1614;&#1584;&#1616;&#1610; &#1582;&#1614;&#1604;&#1614;&#1602;&#1614;&#1603;&#1615;&#1605;&#1618; &#1608;&#1614;&#1649;&#1604;&#1617;&#1614;&#1584;&#1616;&#1610;&#1606;&#1614; &#1605;&#1616;&#1606; &#1602;&#1614;&#1576;&#1618;&#1604;&#1616;&#1603;&#1615;&#1605;&#1618; &#1604;&#1614;&#1593;&#1614;&#1604;&#1617;&#1614;&#1603;&#1615;&#1605;&#1618; &#1578;&#1614;&#1578;&#1617;&#1614;&#1602;&#1615;&#1608;&#1606;&#1614; }​

(O mankind! , Worship your Lord, Who hath created yousperm, and those before you so that ye may ward off



If Allah Almighty is the CREATOR then.....
Should it compulsary for a creator to be "she"?????

 

[summia]

Precisely. It is unreasonable to insist on one term or another in regards to a being that NO ONE has ever proven to exist.

I can prove!
but if you wish me to show you where is God (if you wish to see Him by your own eyes) then sorry!
I have no treatment for such sickness!

If we assume that "god" is the creator of all or gave "birth" to all of creation (and here I am not meaning a phyiscal birth) then why not refer to that entity as "she".

If God has not given "physically birth" then....
Is it compulsary to be a "she"????

Early homo sapiens had no difficulty viewing "god" as the Divine Mother or the Earth Mother. So what exactly is the problem today. The problem today (and for the last few millenia) is that we have these nifty books that say otherwise. The curious thing is that these works of man are deemed to be the "Wog" or "word of god" and are therefore infallible. Since they cannot be wrong, then no one else can be right. I can't help but conclude we are short-changing ourselves because when you are steadfast in a certain mindset then you will automatically ignore all data to the contrary and that is not particularly wise.

What I hav underlined, Are you pointing to me or Muhammad pbuh (whom I believe)????
Then I will surly reply you!
Or you wish to off teh debate coz it is your own estimation?

 

[summia]

You do realize how amusing it is to have a person who is still learning English explain English parts of speech to an English speaking audience, correct? Pssst, we already know Summia, but it is nice to see that you are aware of the "rules" as it were. It is a start.

I wish to clearly mentioned you, I'm a graduate student, It is true that "I can't speak common/ mostly used free english" to communicate. But I'm aware of english rules.
The reason for (I can't speak common/ mostly used free english" to communicate) is that It's not my mother language and I'm from that part of region whose language is not english.for communication "one must need to communicate to english people for learning free english" and that's what I'm here. if I communicate then it will be possible to learn or should i talk to walls for learning english???

And I Love to learn simple english that every "sect" could be undersatnd what I mean! Thats my Moto!

 

[summia]

Hehe. Summia, much to the vexation of the Admins I am entirely aware of the rules of RF. There is little doubt that I understand them better than most others. I might bend them on occasion, but I almost never break them outright. To date I have received one warning only and that is because I accidentally posted in Hinduism ONLY thread. It was a minor infraction and I wrote a good natured response to the person who handed down the warning. All is love and kisses again.

Thanx for telling me about you!

Almost! I don't think that self-praise is a good personality!

Anyway! God bless you!

 

[summia]

I suspect you have cut and pasted several parts of the above because the attention to English grammar and spelling is substantially higher than is usual in your posts. Clearly, Summia, you MUST deal with the fact that others do not see things as you do. If you grow to understand that then your anger/frustration or whatever will lessen. Leave this type of thing for God and let It decide how It feels about Its various appellations. I doubt that It much cares what we call It as long as we remember It. Sound reasonable?

Surly reasonable!

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/science-vs-religion/55364-quran-speed-light-2.html

post number 11:
I sometimes wonder if God/Allah isn't chuckling in his beard (if he is a he and if he has a beard)

Therefore I'm REQUESTING, while putting such pharases for the God, then don't do so, Let him decide "if he is he or not" that was my request not "INSIST" hav I no right to post about my request??

PS: I am not stalking your posts, lol. The truth is that RF threads are so dull that yours are the only ones I found worthy of taking part in. Ah well. I never claim to be right unlike so many others here on RF. I know I could be wrong and it is a great pity that more people did not approach discussions from the same standpoint. There certainly would be a lot less fur flying about the place for FeathersInHair and Mike182 to clean up. :flirt:

:sad4:

 

[Sahar]

Summia, your replies are very well-mannered. It's something some people desperately need to learn. Jazaki Allahu Khayran my beautiful sister!

 

[summia]

Summia, your replies are very well-mannered. It's something some people desperately need to learn. Jazaki Allahu Khayran my beautiful sister!

Shukran Ya Habibi !:bow:

 

[Jaymes]

I am still completely and utterly confused as to what you're trying to say you want us to do.

Please just answer yes/no, since this thread seems to be getting nowhere:

Is it disrespectful to call God "he"? Is it disrespectful to call God "He"? Is it disrespectful to call God "it" and "It"? What about "she" and "She"?

If none of these are disrespectful, what is it you're asking us to do?

 

[summia]

I am still completely and utterly confused as to what you're trying to say you want us to do.

Please just answer yes/no, since this thread seems to be getting nowhere:

Is it disrespectful to call God "he"? Is it disrespectful to call God "He"? Is it disrespectful to call God "it" and "It"? What about "she" and "She"?

No! it is not disrespectfull that's what I'm trying to say!

If none of these are disrespectful, what is it you're asking us to do?

Rather this is disrespectful to call some pharases while putting such pharses.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/science-vs-religion/55364-quran-speed-light-2.html

I sometimes wonder if God/Allah isn't chuckling in his beard (if he is a he and if he has a beard)

If you will be the believer of God, you were also feel that it is an insulting for God Alimighty.

 

[anders]

There is this concept of "markedness" in linguistics. Using a marker for some property will mean that a decision on that property has been made; marker absence doesn't tell you a thing.

Most languages that distinguish grammatical genders wil have one "unmarked" or biologically/philosophically neutral gender. For M/F languages, masculine seems to be unmarked in all languages that I know (not too few ). That is, often masculine gender will mean that the language hasn't decided on natural gender for the word in question. Natural or inferred gender does not have to be related to grammar. A German girl is a Mädchen, neuter in grammar but obviously feminine as to sexual gender.

Any god in any language that makes a distinction between masculine and feminine gender for words could, without any assumption of biological gender (or even its being human-like or not) be referred to using masculine pronouns and/or verb forms. Using "he" etc. for the Abrahamistic (or other) gods should not be interpreted as believing in that god having properties that in any way can be related to human/animal biological gender.

It would be interesting to investigate if clearly female deities always will use feminine language forms... I won't investigate that train of thought here and now, but come spare time, I don't promise that I'll spare you from the results of such an effort.