But is God a cause, or an agent?
God still doesn't explain the mechanism underlying the effect.
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Miracles
- Thread starter frbnsn
- Start date
God still doesn't explain the mechanism underlying the effect.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Shantanu
Well-Known Member
Nothing that happens matters: it is our ignorance that it does.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
That is perhaps the most ignorant thing I have read in the last few days on RF. Congratulations, you had pretty stiff competition.
Shantanu
Well-Known Member
Speak for yourself
whirlingmerc
Well-Known Member
Not really because God is the cause
A providence is where God works according to the laws of nature
A miracle is where God sets aside the normal order of things
In the end there still is a cause
The Super Epic Psalms book 1- what the longer Psalm point to
Shantanu
Well-Known Member
The Reality speaks for Itself
.
The Reality speaks for Itself
So you say that Normon Borlaug who's work has saved over a billion people from starvation doesn't matter?
You are saying that work doesnt matter.
Shantanu
Well-Known Member
What did Normon Borlaug get in return for his work?
What has that got to with the price of grain?
Shantanu
Well-Known Member
Nothing.
So why ask?
Ok, talking about ignorance. He got the Nobel Peace Prize in 1970 for his work on grain
I would say’not contrary’ but rather including causes not perceptible through our physical-level senses.
Shantanu
Well-Known Member
Who cares about Nobel Peace Prize?
GoodbyeDave
Well-Known Member
Philosophers (at least, the competent ones) distinguish two sorts of miracle: strong and weak.
The strong miracles are the ones "contrary to the laws of nature". The most obvious thing about these is that you can't find anyone who's seen one! Things like the dead coming back to life appear in scriptures but not in real life: they are myth, not history.
The weak miracles are miraculous with respect to their context. Some-one prays and is cured. Were they cured by the god to whom they prayed? Did their belief give them the power of healing (which has been scientifically confirmed to exist)? Did the god to whom they prayed give them the ability? Who knows.
Incidentally, Hume's famous rule that one should always disbelieve in events "contrary to the laws of nature" fails on two counts. Firstly, it assumes that we actually know all the laws of nature. Secondly, it would block any acceptance of phenomena which appear to contradict our current knowledge. "Zero electrical resistance? Impossible — check your apparatus."
The strong miracles are the ones "contrary to the laws of nature". The most obvious thing about these is that you can't find anyone who's seen one! Things like the dead coming back to life appear in scriptures but not in real life: they are myth, not history.
The weak miracles are miraculous with respect to their context. Some-one prays and is cured. Were they cured by the god to whom they prayed? Did their belief give them the power of healing (which has been scientifically confirmed to exist)? Did the god to whom they prayed give them the ability? Who knows.
Incidentally, Hume's famous rule that one should always disbelieve in events "contrary to the laws of nature" fails on two counts. Firstly, it assumes that we actually know all the laws of nature. Secondly, it would block any acceptance of phenomena which appear to contradict our current knowledge. "Zero electrical resistance? Impossible — check your apparatus."
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Shantanu
Well-Known Member
I am open to psychological counselling: maybe I should become a Christian who Jesus saves?
Or how about an atheist who does not need bronze age stories of a god sitting on their shoulder telling them what is right and what is wrong... Now that would be a miracle.
Re "Jesus Saves"
Many years ago i was driving through a rather insalubrious district of manchester. I passed a church with a large sign "Jesus saves fallen women"
Underneath someone had written in bold black ink "ask him to save one for me"
Shantanu
Well-Known Member
I got nothing from my God Delusion suing the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom for millions of pounds but was instead found to be suffering from persistent delusional disorder to be controlled by heavy medication of antipsychotic risperidone and anti-depressant sertraline by the UK Mental Health authorities: I should have listened to Richard Dawkins, the master of atheism with scientific backing or to @Aupmanyav my guru from Freethought and Rationalism Discussion Board days. Please can you help me instead? - I want to know the truth.
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