Miley Cyrus Performance at the TCA

[blackout]

Do pilots of small crafts take written competancy tests,
as well as actual flight tests?
Do they actually hold a licence?
Some kind of measured certification?
Or do they just lay "claim" to the title 'pilot'.

And how about your heart surgeon?
What "degree" of surgical competancy would you prefer?

Of course people need to reach a "certain level" of expertise to claim a title that infers expertise.
What else?

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Do pilots of small crafts take written competancy tests,
as well as actual flight tests?
Do they actually hold a licence?
Some kind of measured certification?
Or do they just lay "claim" to the title 'pilot'.

And how about your heart surgeon?
What "degree" of surgical competancy would you prefer?

Are you saying that a musician must take classes and get a license to use the label musician? That is an insult to a lot of my friends who are out there performing music all the time. I'm friends with a band called Paper Windows, they don't have any of these certificates you claim they must have to be musicians but that's exactly what they are and for you to say the aren't is an insult to them and any other musician who doesn't have the creditials you insist are required.

 

[McBell]

Do pilots of small crafts take written competancy tests,
as well as actual flight tests?
Do they actually hold a licence?
Some kind of measured certification?
Or do they just lay "claim" to the title 'pilot'.

And how about your heart surgeon?
What "degree" of surgical competancy would you prefer?

Of course people need to reach a "certain level" of expertise to claim a title that infers expertise.
What else?

um...
where does one get this "musician" license?
Is there some sort of test, you know, like to get your pilot license or to become a doctor?

 

[blackout]

Do pilots of small crafts take written competancy tests,
as well as actual flight tests?
Do they actually hold a licence?
Some kind of measured certification?
Or do they just lay "claim" to the title 'pilot'.

And how about your heart surgeon?
What "degree" of surgical competancy would you prefer?

Of course people need to reach a "certain level" of expertise to claim a title that infers expertise.
What else?

Come on guys. Can't you tell by the last sentence what I was trying to say?

I was ONLY trying to make a point. (via comparison)
Not create a system to fine people who don't know what scale to play over an altered dominant chord...
or can't hear the difference between D half diminished and a D minor major 7th chord.

I will try ONE last time in my next post.
Then, I give up.

(which I'm quite sure you will be all to glad of)

EDIT: I'm just too tired right now.
I'll try later when I'm more rested.
I'm not out to argue, and I'd like to express my point clearly.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Come on guys. Can't you tell by the last sentence what I was trying to say?

I was ONLY trying to make a point.
Not create a system to fine people who don't know what scale to play over an altered dominant chord...
or can't hear the difference between D half diminished and a D minor major 7th chord.
(or even a major and minor triad. lol)

I will try ONE last time in my next post.
Then, I give up.

(which I'm quite sure you will be all to glad of)

EDIT: I'm just too tired right now.
I'll try later when I'm more rested.
I'm not out to argue, and I'd like to express my point clearly.

While you are at it, explain how you are able to judge Miley Cyrus by such criteria? Do you have inside knowledge of what her musical training has been? Considering her family is very musical I would think it was rather extensive so I don't understand where you are coming from at all unless it is just a dislike for her personally. I understand your arguement and it is probably justified for someone like Emily Osment who just sings a bit and uses technology to help make her sound good. But using this arguement against Miley Cyrus doesn't hold up unless you have some kind of evidence we don't know about. If so, please present it.

 

[blackout]

Look Trey. Why don't you link some evidence for me that she IS an accomplished musician of some sort.
If you have some evidence that we all... erm.. I ... don't know about... please present it.

If you have evidence that she can pole dance please present that as well.
(just trying to stay on topic.)

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Look Trey. Why don't you link some evidence for me that she IS an accomplished musician of some sort.
If you have some evidence that we all... erm.. I ... don't know about... please present it.

If you have evidence that she can pole dance please present that as well.
(just trying to stay on topic.)

Since she has perfomed while playing an instrument and comes from a very musical family I believe it is a safe assumption and the challenge is to you to prove that she is faking don't you think? The fact that she might be faking the ability to play guitar is hardly an arguement for telling me I have to prove she can.

 

[blackout]

I just went on you tube. She can play & strum all the guitar chords I could play at her age.

whatever. not impressed.

 

[blackout]

Aparantely the word musician encompasses so much as to actually mean anything,
or nothing, or whatever you want it to.

People who "play guitar" are not necessarily either guitarists, or musicians.
Neither can people who are musicians necessarily play guitar.

I went to school with Peter Bernstein when he was only 19 or 20 or so.
Peter Bernstein is a guitarist... and a musician.
Miley Cirus plays some guitar.
There is a WORLD of difference.

If you can't hear or recognize it... I simply can't help you.
Ohhh and there's Larry Goldings on Keys!
Went to school with both of them when they were real young cats.

YouTube - Bobblehead

Though I doubt if Peter looks very good in hot pants,
or pole dances very well.

EDIT: OMG! What a HAWT Recording!

 

[McBell]

whatever. not impressed.

really?
Is anyone surprised your not impressed?
I sure ain't.

Especially with the way you are ragging on her in this thread.
Seems to me that there is absolutely nothing about Miley Cyrus, her attending acting school, the fact that most her family is not only involved with music but a few actually make a living with it, the fact she co-wrote most the songs on her latest album, the fact she co wrote several of the songs on her debut album, the fact she won several awards for her music, that will impress you.

I cannot help but wonder what your REAL beef is with her.

 

[monta]

Let's not confuse a slick product with an actual talented singer or musician, unlike UltraViolet, I have no musical talent myself and even I can hear she is mediocre at best.

That being said, she is not there for me to enjoy she is there for kids, who seem to love her. I don't see any evidence that she is a bad role model for them, at the moment anyway, and even if she were, a pop stars' influence won't corrupt a child with a solid moral upbringing, kids aren't idiots.

Having a music career is hardly evidence of musical talent these days, Myley Cyrus seems bratty to me, but what would you expect, you would have to be made of stone to have the upbringing she has had, in her fathers limelight then her own career and not be influenced by it.

 

[blackout]

really?
Is anyone surprised your not impressed?
I sure ain't.

Especially with the way you are ragging on her in this thread.
Seems to me that there is absolutely nothing about Miley Cyrus, her attending acting school, the fact that most her family is not only involved with music but a few actually make a living with it, the fact she co-wrote most the songs on her latest album, the fact she co wrote several of the songs on her debut album, the fact she won several awards for her music, that will impress you.

I cannot help but wonder what your REAL beef is with her.

She is a kid, and a very young musician.
Why on earth should that impress me?
I myself have had students who could play and sing as well (as her).
But at least she is a student of music.
And Good for her. At least she has picked up a REAL guitar,
learned to switch some real chords in real time,
and not just a plastic thing with 4 colored buttons on it.
I give her credit for bothering to learn...
but she is a BABY musician-- in light of anything I have heard/seen.
(and I will stand by this till someone shows me evidence otherwise.
I did go and look for myself to make sure I hadn't missed anything of import and found nothing.)

As well, I have no "beef" with miley cyrus.
I may have a beef with a general public that has no idea what it means to be a musician though.
But whatever. This is a forum. We discuss stuff here.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

At least she has picked up a REAL guitar,
learned to switch some real chords in real time,
and not just a plastic thing with 4 colored buttons on it.

Pfft - for your information it has FIVE colored buttons, not FOUR. Not as easy as you thought it was, eh?

 

[blackout]

Pfft - for your information it has FIVE colored buttons, not FOUR. Not as easy as you thought it was, eh?

hahahaha!!!

guess not. lol. That proves it then. I know nothing of which I speak.

*UV is going to make enemies of everyone on this forum before this thread is over....*

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

even I can hear she is mediocre at best.

The point is that she deserves the right to call herself a musician. I know lots of musicians who are far from mediocre and not on the good side but they are still musicians. Stating that you have to achieve some form of status or take classes and pass tests to be allowed to call your self a musician is not only wrong but an insult to all the struggling artists out there who work very hard for their art. Picking on Miley Cyrus because she's rich and famous and successful may sound like good fun but it also spills over to affect other artists as well. So when you start making up rules for how she should be judged remember those rules would have to be used against all artists, not just certain hand picked ones.

 

[blackout]

Are kids who spend dedicated time at home with their chemistry sets chemists?
Or students of chemistry.
I could go on with examples...
but I am oh so tired of this circular discussion, and have other things to do.

So I don't know.
Is it somehow incumbent on all of the world's accomplished musicians to say,
"I am an accomplished musician".
"I am a musician who is fluent in the language of music".
"I am a *high level* musician".
"I am a *code red* musician." (means I "smoke" when I play....) :flirt:
Why is it not incumbent on young/growing/learning musicians to say
"I am a student of music".
Is there something... dirty about that?
Admitting your student level status?
I thought this was what we encouraged of our young people?

Why not just be real about it.
And if yer gunna stand by a pole lookin' all suggestive...
you might as well just dance it. IMHO.
Why be a poser? Just do it. :flirt:

I do believe I've made my point clearly,
(while making a small effort to stay on topic)...so now I am done.

 

[Darkness]

UltraViolet, I hate to say it, but you are the very essence of an Elitist. You are like the English teacher who prattles on and on about how great Shakespeare's plays are and that all entertainment today is worthless garbage (never mind the fact that Shakespeare's plays were originally for the common folk). I suppose Sir Richard Branson is not a real businessman because he never finished the UK equivalent of High School, nor did he ever attend a University to study business.

You say:

Aparantely the word musician encompasses so much as to actually mean anything,
or nothing, or whatever you want it to.

People who "play guitar" are not necessarily either guitarists, or musicians.
Neither can people who are musicians necessarily play guitar.

I may have a beef with a general public that has no idea what it means to be a musician though.

What you are arguing is that your ability to play complicated songs on a guitar or other instrument is what makes you a musician. I always thought it is pleasing to the ear that makes a good musician. You can play the longest and complicated instrumental solos (like so many Heavy metal songs do), but I find them to be quite boring. In fact, I find most Classic Music to be quite mediocre. I have found some tribal songs, by non-professions, to be much more asthetically pleasing, but I guess they do not meet your Elitist standard.

Why is it not incumbent on young/growing/learning musicians to say
"I am a student of music".
Is there something... dirty about that?
Admitting your student level status?
I thought this was what we encouraged of our young people?

Unlike the Elitists of this world claim, music and talent is wholly subjective.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Anybody can be a musician, but not everybody can be a good musician.

 

[Darkness]

Anybody can be a musician, but not everybody can be a good musician.

I assent. Though, what constitutes a good musician is usually cultural and entirely subjective.

 

[blackout]

Music theory is mathematical patterning.

There is nothing subjective about this.

Either you know it all over your instrument or you don't.

The more mathematical patterning you know all over your instrument,
the more "stuff" you can play.
It's really no mystery, and there's nothing subjective about it.


What you like, connect with, and find meaning in is subjective.
The personal musical experience is subjective.
But Basic Musicianship is not.
It is knowledge, and ability.
The ability to hear & play your way through a line or a chord progression
is NOT subjective.
The ability to analyze a piece of music in "terms" of music theory is not.
Ask a professor at any University Level Music Department.

These things are all part and parcel of BEING a musician.
The be all end all? Most certainly not.
But integral? Most definately.

I do not understand why education in science is so elevated on this site,
that everyone 'must know' all the theories and such...
and yet education of the science/mathematics of music...
practical knowledge of music theory... is considered nothing more than elitism.

I study and practice my whole life away only to find out here, today,
it's been nothing more than a 25 year journey towards elitism.
And the whole time I thought I was mastering music.

Silly me. Everyone's a musician.
How stupid of me to suggest otherwise.

Fine. Miley Cyrus is a musicain.
And quite an amazing one at that.
She is also one kick *** pole dancer.

Hope everyone feels better now.