Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
I find it remarkable that Jewish scholars, using the Hebrew scriptures alone, have managed to develop such a vast body of knowledge that contains all the seeds of truth.
The great unsolved mystery for Jews seems to have been the Church, the body of Christ. In the prophecies of Isaiah, for example, the first and second advents of Christ are sometimes hidden in a single sentence. There is no clearly defined Church Age. Not surprisingly, rabbis have had great difficulty explaining how Messiah the son of Joseph could be so different from Messiah son of David.
I recently came across this interesting passage in the Talmud.
Sukkah 51b-52a.
'What is the cause of mourning [mentioned in the last cited verse - Zech.12:12]? - R. Dosa and the Rabbis differ on the point. One explained, The cause is the slaying of Messiah the son of Joseph, and the other explained, The cause is the slaying of the Evil Inclination.
It is well according to him who explains that the cause is the slaying of Messiah the son of Joseph, since that well agrees with the Scriptural verse, And they shall look upon me because they have thrust him through, and they shall mourn for him as one mourneth for his only son [Zech. 12:10], but according to him who explains the cause to be the slaying of the Evil Inclination, is this [it may be objected] an occasion for mourning? Is it not rather an occasion for rejoicing? Why then should they weep? - [The explanation is] as R. Judah expounded: In the time to come the Holy One, blessed be He, will bring the Evil Inclination and slay it in the presence of the righteous and the wicked. To the righteous it will have the appearance of a towering hill, and to the wicked it will have the appearance of a hair thread. Both the former and the latter will weep; the righteous will weep, saying, 'How were we able to overcome such a towering hill!' The wicked also will weep saying, 'How is it that we were unable to conquer this hair thread!' And the Holy One, blessed be He, will also marvel together with them, as it is said, Thus saith the Lord of Hosts, If it be marvellous in the eyes of the remnant of this people in those days, it shall also be marvellous in My eyes.' [Zech. 8:6]
In another book, A Rabbinic Anthology [Selected by C.G. Montefiore and H.Loewe], there was an extract from a Midrashic compilation known as the Pesikta Rabbathi which describes at length the sufferings of the Messiah. It's too long to quote in full, but it contains these amazing lines, "'Afflicted and riding on an ***' That is the Messiah. Why is he called afflicted? Because he was afflicted all those years in the prison, and the transgressors in Israel laughed at him. And why riding upon an ***? Because the transgressors have no merit, ....but through his merit God protects them, and leads them on a level way, and redeems them.....'In thy light we shall see light.' What is this light that the congregation of Israel looks for? That is the light of the Messiah, as it is said, 'God saw the light and it was good.'
Is modern Judaism being honest to its ancient scholarship, or is it systematically attempting to eradicate the points of contact between Judaism and Christianity?
Are there not a large number of prophecies to the 'suffering servant' [Messiah son of Joseph] that fail to gain recognition as Messianic prophecies?
The great unsolved mystery for Jews seems to have been the Church, the body of Christ. In the prophecies of Isaiah, for example, the first and second advents of Christ are sometimes hidden in a single sentence. There is no clearly defined Church Age. Not surprisingly, rabbis have had great difficulty explaining how Messiah the son of Joseph could be so different from Messiah son of David.
I recently came across this interesting passage in the Talmud.
Sukkah 51b-52a.
'What is the cause of mourning [mentioned in the last cited verse - Zech.12:12]? - R. Dosa and the Rabbis differ on the point. One explained, The cause is the slaying of Messiah the son of Joseph, and the other explained, The cause is the slaying of the Evil Inclination.
It is well according to him who explains that the cause is the slaying of Messiah the son of Joseph, since that well agrees with the Scriptural verse, And they shall look upon me because they have thrust him through, and they shall mourn for him as one mourneth for his only son [Zech. 12:10], but according to him who explains the cause to be the slaying of the Evil Inclination, is this [it may be objected] an occasion for mourning? Is it not rather an occasion for rejoicing? Why then should they weep? - [The explanation is] as R. Judah expounded: In the time to come the Holy One, blessed be He, will bring the Evil Inclination and slay it in the presence of the righteous and the wicked. To the righteous it will have the appearance of a towering hill, and to the wicked it will have the appearance of a hair thread. Both the former and the latter will weep; the righteous will weep, saying, 'How were we able to overcome such a towering hill!' The wicked also will weep saying, 'How is it that we were unable to conquer this hair thread!' And the Holy One, blessed be He, will also marvel together with them, as it is said, Thus saith the Lord of Hosts, If it be marvellous in the eyes of the remnant of this people in those days, it shall also be marvellous in My eyes.' [Zech. 8:6]
In another book, A Rabbinic Anthology [Selected by C.G. Montefiore and H.Loewe], there was an extract from a Midrashic compilation known as the Pesikta Rabbathi which describes at length the sufferings of the Messiah. It's too long to quote in full, but it contains these amazing lines, "'Afflicted and riding on an ***' That is the Messiah. Why is he called afflicted? Because he was afflicted all those years in the prison, and the transgressors in Israel laughed at him. And why riding upon an ***? Because the transgressors have no merit, ....but through his merit God protects them, and leads them on a level way, and redeems them.....'In thy light we shall see light.' What is this light that the congregation of Israel looks for? That is the light of the Messiah, as it is said, 'God saw the light and it was good.'
Is modern Judaism being honest to its ancient scholarship, or is it systematically attempting to eradicate the points of contact between Judaism and Christianity?
Are there not a large number of prophecies to the 'suffering servant' [Messiah son of Joseph] that fail to gain recognition as Messianic prophecies?