Mere words are not enough?

[Geoff-Allen]

Hope we are all enjoying the time on this forum.

I was JUST wondering about the following question:

Do you really expect that your words are capable of changing someone else's mind - esp about their most cherished beliefs?

Speaking personally, my mind was never changed by reading alternative points-of-view. It was only DIRECT experience that changed (or transformed is a better word) my beliefs about life, the universe & everything.

I used to be a hard-core atheist. I used to say things like the following:

"If god really wants to punish me he should send me to heaven. Just the thought of spending eternity with god & all his fawning sycophants is much more than I can stomach."

I felt like that for many years and was quite angry & cynical about life in general.

Then I had an awakening - now I would have thought I would be the VERY last person to have such an experience. Truth really is far stranger than fiction.

Yes - if you had suggested to me that I would get right into meditation and reading books like "Conversations with God" and that I would start treating other people with kindness & compassion {most of the time} ... well ... I would have absolutely laughed in your face or called for the men in their white coats!

So ... it took a direct experience to change my perspective. Mere words were never remotely close and even now I have to laugh at how I used to think about reality etc.

I am not the only awakening soul on this planet - some would say we all are ... for more about spiritual awakening and what to expect - try this page -

Spiritual Awakening Signs: 10 Authentic Symptoms + 5 Spiritual Traps

Anyways, nice chatting with you and feel free to share whatever your experiences may be.

Enjoy your day!

 

[Valjean]

The true believers; the hard core, who's belief was not the product of reason, will not be changed by reason.
The more open minded, the fence sitters and the undecided, on the other hand....

 

[Mock Turtle]

Experiences can work both ways too, as in suggesting no such spirituality. One only has to look at those who have seen some particular personal tragedy to know that many do lose any religious beliefs after such experiences. And such experiences can raise just as many questions as religious belief supposedly seems to offer answers.

The one sure thing in my view that might change one's beliefs is in not holding on to them so firmly - something that religious beliefs are not exactly aligned with, there being expectations in much of religious belief to have 'solid faith' in such beliefs. In fact I hope to have a thread about just such - how our beliefs coalesce into something so solid as to often become immovable. Which in my view creates more than enough problems even if many may be true beliefs.

 

[Geoff-Allen]

Thanks for the feed-back!

I believe there are at least 6 or 7 billion ways to wake up - because we each are absolutely unique and yet in major ways identical.

Such is the mystery of human existence

Best wishes to all forum readers and everyone else on this humble planet!

Ciao!

 

[Nimos]

Do you really expect that your words are capable of changing someone else's mind - esp about their most cherished beliefs?

Speaking personally, my mind was never changed by reading alternative points-of-view. It was only DIRECT experience that changed (or transformed is a better word) my beliefs about life, the universe & everything.

I used to be a hard-core atheist. I used to say things like the following:

"If god really wants to punish me he should send me to heaven. Just the thought of spending eternity with god & all his fawning sycophants is much more than I can stomach."

I felt like that for many years and was quite angry & cynical about life in general.

Then I had an awakening - now I would have thought I would be the VERY last person to have such an experience. Truth really is far stranger than fiction.

I don't personally think, my opinion changes anyones mind. But I do think, or at least hope that people are interested enough in examine some of the claims the opposite part makes in these debates. Which will make them search knowledge and information which goes against their beliefs.

If I should put a % on how much time I spend on things I belief and those I don't. It would probably be 30/70 on things that argue against them.

I find it very important to test ones own beliefs, if one is after what is most likely to be true, one have to follow the evidence in my opinion. And I don't really see how one does that effectively, if you don't examine the other side and what they claim. After that you can compare them and decide what is most likely.

The statement you made regarding God, when you were an atheist is not unjustified, if one is to believe what the bible say, if we are talking the biblical God. Whether or not one choose to believe in God or not, these things are written in the bible.
As an atheist one just need more than a claim "That this is not really what God is, because of some personal experience." Again, staying true to the evidence, one will have a rough time denying these things, just as it is trying to justify them.

In regards to feeling angry and cynical about life in general, again this is no different than if you listen to "new" atheists that spend most of their lives trying to fit God into all this and believing that you can solve problems by praying etc. And when they finally realize that there is another side of the coin, that actually can explain a lot of things and is not as dark and sinister as they might have been taught it is. Then they experience similar feelings, having lived a life being taught lies, so not only do they express sadness, but also anger. (This is from listening to their explanations of it.) So trust me, lots of people suffers both after and during their religious belief.

One just have to examine the other side as well.

 

[Windwalker]

Do you really expect that your words are capable of changing someone else's mind - esp about their most cherished beliefs?

An old saying answers this best. 'A man convinced against his will, remains of same opinion still.'

Speaking personally, my mind was never changed by reading alternative points-of-view. It was only DIRECT experience that changed (or transformed is a better word) my beliefs about life, the universe & everything.

The reason for this is because there is a night and day difference between beliefs and experience. Prior to experience, beliefs are the whole substance of reality to the conceptual mind. After experience, they are simply ornamentations on the tree, rather than the substance of the tree itself.

You can remove all the ornaments, and the tree still stands. The conceptual mind, is not the trunk and the roots of the tree, but only one of its branches. Experience is beyond belief. It's beyond the conceptual mind.

 

[Ancient Soul]

Hope we are all enjoying the time on this forum.

I was JUST wondering about the following question:

Do you really expect that your words are capable of changing someone else's mind - esp about their most cherished beliefs?

Speaking personally, my mind was never changed by reading alternative points-of-view. It was only DIRECT experience that changed (or transformed is a better word) my beliefs about life, the universe & everything.

I used to be a hard-core atheist. I used to say things like the following:

"If god really wants to punish me he should send me to heaven. Just the thought of spending eternity with god & all his fawning sycophants is much more than I can stomach."

I felt like that for many years and was quite angry & cynical about life in general.

Then I had an awakening - now I would have thought I would be the VERY last person to have such an experience. Truth really is far stranger than fiction.

Yes - if you had suggested to me that I would get right into meditation and reading books like "Conversations with God" and that I would start treating other people with kindness & compassion {most of the time} ... well ... I would have absolutely laughed in your face or called for the men in their white coats!

So ... it took a direct experience to change my perspective. Mere words were never remotely close and even now I have to laugh at how I used to think about reality etc.

I am not the only awakening soul on this planet - some would say we all are ... for more about spiritual awakening and what to expect - try this page -

Spiritual Awakening Signs: 10 Authentic Symptoms + 5 Spiritual Traps

Anyways, nice chatting with you and feel free to share whatever your experiences may be.

Enjoy your day!

To be honest I've only changed someone's opinions of their religious beliefs about 7 times. At least that's all who would admit it.

So I don't really expect to change the minds of those I'm debating with, as some of the religions have very effective brainwashing systems that leaves most with no rational thinking ability left. Then there is their own ego that gets in the way in letting them see how wrong they really are. HOWEVER, I do change the minds of many people reading my posts, and my passing along helpful spiritual information should help others on their spiritual path.