Mental or spiritual?

[Boltwave]

Is it considered a mental illness when someone has a telekenetic ability and to speak in other languages, or is it just the wind blowing things around the house and the person is speaking gibberish.



By this, I'm referring too demonic possessions, let's see who will out-debate this science, or religion.

 

[Ryan2065]

Is it considered a mental illness when someone has a telekenetic ability and to speak in other languages, or is it just the wind blowing things around the house and the person is speaking gibberish.

So find me someone who has telekenetic abilities that are recognized by scientists and I'll believe it is religious. Speaking other languages? Normally the people who speak other languages speak languages they have had training in or speak jibberish that is though to be "ancient languages lost in time" so of course don't know what they are saying =P

 

[Feathers in Hair]

While I've had some experience with unconcious telekinetic ability, I've also had a few mental illnesses. (Depression.) Perhaps these others are off-shoots of that?

 

[ChrisP]

While I've had some experience with unconcious telekinetic ability, I've also had a few mental illnesses. (Depression.) Perhaps these others are off-shoots of that?

Perhaps depression and other mental illnesses are attributable to telepathic/empathic ablities, as yet mis/not understood by human science. Depression is definitely affected by environment.

An unconscious ability to siphon off/synchronise with the thoughts and feelings (good and bad) of others?

 

[s2a]

Boltwave inquired:

Is it considered a mental illness when someone has a telekenetic ability and to speak in other languages, or is it just the wind blowing things around the house and the person is speaking gibberish.

By this, I'm referring too demonic possessions, let's see who will out-debate this science, or religion.

I suppose it depends upon whom is making a claim as to cause/effect of such phenomena.

In the case of a claimed "demonic possession", are there any scientifically derived evidences that support such a claim (of telekenesis; speaking in unknown/dead languages)...or are the claims sourced from singular anecdotal "sightings/experiences" or religious/spiritual belief in paranormal/divine cause/effect?

A simple standard of reasonable probability/plausibility can always be employed when confronting such claims of "demonic possession".

1) Is a natural cause of explanation of the observed phenomena more or less likely/probable that a cause attributed to an invisible, unmeasurable, untestable, and unverifiably supernatural demon?

2) If a (methodologically/scientifically) derived explanation can not provide immediate or satisfactory naturally explained cause/effect, should it be presumed that a supernatural demon is therefore, by default, the cause/explanation of the observed phenomena?

3) If insufficient data/evidence/credibility disallows a reasonably acceptable scientifically-derived conclusion...is "unknown" an acceptable position to retain, or must every observable phenomena have an immediate and directly attributable cause/effect explanation?


Tens of thousands of people "eyewitness" UFO sightings every year. Of these, how many are typically explainable by natural cause? Of the remaining unexplained sightings, should we conclude that any lack of immediate scientific/natural explanation of yet "unidentified objects" should logically suggest/conclude with certainty beyond reasonable doubt that interplanetary spacecraft inhabited by alien species are visiting our planet? Are there any other rational/reasonable probabilities/possibilities worthy of consideration?

If someone had never heard of a "demon", or a "UFO", would they know one when they "saw" one? Does suggestibility play any role in perception, or causal attribution of observable phenomena?

 

[Aurelian]

I always thought it was the spirit inside the person that was summoned, only they were doing the miraculous stuff, not the actual person...

I don't know, I haven't had too many experiences with things like this but I wouldn't say it doesn't happen.

 

[gnomon]

Is it considered a mental illness when someone has a telekenetic ability and to speak in other languages, or is it just the wind blowing things around the house and the person is speaking gibberish.



By this, I'm referring too demonic possessions, let's see who will out-debate this science, or religion.

Prior to starting a discussion on whether or not telekinetic ability is a sign of mental illness or demonic possession you must establish that telekinetic ability actually exists. The same with spontaneous, linguistic ability. Until then, this is just another conjectural debate among 'believers' based purely upon the most frivolous assumptions known as wishes.

 

[Meesheltx]

If you are interested in this kind of debate, The Excorcism of Emily Rose is an awesome movie to watch!

 

[michel]

While I've had some experience with unconcious telekinetic ability, I've also had a few mental illnesses. (Depression.) Perhaps these others are off-shoots of that?

I wouldn't be surprised........I am the same (not that I have ever achieved telekinesis) - telepathy though, with certain people. Perhaps the brain has to be 'tuned in' to channels not usually used, and that produces depression - not that that could ever be proved..........

 

[Fatmop]

An unconscious ability to siphon off/synchronise with the thoughts and feelings (good and bad) of others?

I wouldn't be surprised........I am the same (not that I have ever achieved telekinesis) - telepathy though, with certain people. Perhaps the brain has to be 'tuned in' to channels not usually used, and that produces depression - not that that could ever be proved..........

Recognition of minute facial expressions and postural/behavioral oddities can produce a profound emotional response. Sometimes you may not realize that your emotions or thoughts are incited by another's body language, but 'telepathy' could almost certainly be attributed to that. Do you have specific examples of this telepathy?

I always thought it was the spirit inside the person that was summoned, only they were doing the miraculous stuff, not the actual person...

And now we have three things to prove the existence of: 1) Telepathy/telekinesis, 2) Speaking in tongues, 3) Existence of the spirit.

 

[Mike182]

a religious experience is incredibly subjective to your own personal views

if you do not believe in spirituality, then you will be quick to claim science - and if you do believe in spirituality, you will be quick to acredit it to your faith

quite simply, if i have what i percieve to be a true experience of demonic possession, or speaking in tongues, or vissions - you will never know that experience, as human words are not sufficient for describing it

and if we cannot pin point what we are debating about, then logically speaking, no one can win

C_P

 

[Fatmop]

Well said!

 

[gnomon]

a religious experience is incredibly subjective to your own personal views

if you do not believe in spirituality, then you will be quick to claim science - and if you do believe in spirituality, you will be quick to acredit it to your faith

quite simply, if i have what i percieve to be a true experience of demonic possession, or speaking in tongues, or vissions - you will never know that experience, as human words are not sufficient for describing it

and if we cannot pin point what we are debating about, then logically speaking, no one can win

C_P

Can anyone be demonically possessed or only believers? While spirituality may be subjective in their experience it is objective in its claims. Usually. I say this only because the thought of exorcism performed on children really creeps me out.

 

[Mike182]

Can anyone be demonically possessed or only believers?

your asking the wrong guy, i merely out it forwards with a few others as examples of "religious experiences"

While spirituality may be subjective in their experience it is objective in its claims. Usually. I say this only because the thought of exorcism performed on children really creeps me out.

im confused, what claims?

 

[gnomon]

im confused, what claims?

Claims is perhaps the wrong word. I'm trying to state that while those who are spiritually inclined will experience the same situation differently from those who are non-spiritual they both hold that there particular worldviews hold. In particular, in twelve step meetings those who believed in a higher power would make statements with regards to how my higher power works for me irregardless of what I believe. Their belief in the spirit, or soul, held that all people have a soul and there is a higher power for all people. I held a contrary position in regards that I believed there is no higher power at work and that there is no such thing as the soul. Often what we believe for ourselves we hold true for others.

I qualified this with usually because I do not hold this to be an absolute. And I will qualify it again by stating that my own statement is losing some of its credibility upon explanation. Actually, I don't think I'm explaining myself too well which usually means I'm no longer sure of what I'm talking about.

 

[Fatmop]

I qualified this with usually because I do not hold this to be an absolute. And I will qualify it again by stating that my own statement is losing some of its credibility upon explanation. Actually, I don't think I'm explaining myself too well which usually means I'm no longer sure of what I'm talking about.

Well, did you mean that the claims of demonic possession are just that - claims? Or is there somewhere else you're going?

 

[gnomon]

Well, did you mean that the claims of demonic possession are just that - claims? Or is there somewhere else you're going?

Well, if demonic possession is a unique phenomenon to those who are spiritual and is non-existent among those who are not than the predisposed belief is required in order to be demonically possessed. In other words, it can't happen to you if you do not believe it. Of course, I don't know of any cases where say, an athiest suddenly finds themself possessed but I admit I have not done the research.

 

[Fatmop]

Well, if demonic possession is a unique phenomenon to those who are spiritual and is non-existent among those who are not than the predisposed belief is required in order to be demonically possessed. In other words, it can't happen to you if you do not believe it. Of course, I don't know of any cases where say, an athiest suddenly finds themself possessed but I admit I have not done the research.

I think if an atheist found him/herself 'possessed,' they would be provided with sufficient evidence to no longer be an atheist.

 

[gnomon]

I think if an atheist found him/herself 'possessed,' they would be provided with sufficient evidence to no longer be an atheist.

Quite true.

 

[Boltwave]

I think if an atheist found him/herself 'possessed,' they would be provided with sufficient evidence to no longer be an atheist.

Now that is funny.:biglaugh: