Meaning In Fictional and "Real" Religion

[DharmaCatLamp]

Does evolution make sense to you?

Evolution isn't the same thing. Culture doesn't have an end point, we have different iterations of things that don't always mean we've made progress.

 

[icehorse]

Are you intentionally distorting "this perspective" or simply confused and bitter?

neither

 

[PruePhillip]

Take the story of Jesus for example. Studying early Christianity we might know that a good portion of the story we now have for Jesus is almost certainly later additions. We have some stories which differ wildly from the “orthodox” narrative. We have Gnosticism and mystery religions surrounding Jesus as well as groups like the Ebionites who insist that Jesus is the very Jewish messiah that was specifically for the Jewish people.

Luke never met Jesus but he was like the 'Physician' mentioned in Acts. He wrote the Gospel of Luke and then The Acts. He was with Paul on that last journey to Rome about 65AD. And Luke quoted from Matthew and Mark's Gospel. John wrote his own Gospel in Ephesus many years later as an old man. No-one in that day and age took accounts like the 'Infancy Narrative of Thomas' seriously. There was an understanding amongst the First Century church which books were authentic. Not even the later Catholic Church couldn't change that.
So no, I don't see 'later editions' to the Gospels.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Evolution isn't the same thing. Culture doesn't have an end point, we have different iterations of things that don't always mean we've made progress.

You clearly do not understand evolution.

 

[blü 2]

Howdy folks.

This was inspired by the post Fictional Religions so you guys should check that out I suppose.

I was thinking about fictional religions and the thought I kept coming back to is that whether an idea appears in what we might call fiction vs what we might call scripture is irrelevant. Ideas and the meanings behind them are what is important.

Take the story of Jesus for example. Studying early Christianity we might know that a good portion of the story we now have for Jesus is almost certainly later additions. We have some stories which differ wildly from the “orthodox” narrative. We have Gnosticism and mystery religions surrounding Jesus as well as groups like the Ebionites who insist that Jesus is the very Jewish messiah that was specifically for the Jewish people.

That is a lot of different stories and narratives surrounding a singular figure. In a historical sense we could make arguments for one group or another being closer to what the historical Jesus might of taught. What I would argue is that the importance and meaning of Jesus come from our own personal experiences rather than what the man taught.

What someone like Meister Eckhart believed about Christ may have nothing to do with what the man himself said or did. Does that matter if Meister Eckhart still taught beauty and understanding? Does it matter if he was inspired by fiction as opposed to a historical narrative?

The Tao Te Ching was written by a man named Lao Tzu. It’s agreed by many scholars that there was probably not a man named Lao Tzu who actually came up with the Tao Te Ching. Does that take away the meaning a beauty of many of it’s statements?

I would apply this to fictional religions as well. Haqqislam is a fictional religion in the Infinity universe. Infinity is a tabletop game by Corvus Belli and they have a lot of interesting ideas. Haqqislam is a reform movement within Islam that seeks to constantly obtaining knowledge. Some Haqqislam practitioners pray five times daily but many use those times for reflection and meditation instead. They believe that one should always be seeking knowledge and evolving. Does that message suddenly mean less because it comes from a fictional universe?

I would argue that not only does that not invalidate the message but it might actually make it stronger in some sense.

Dune has numerous mixtures of religions like Zen Sufi and Zen Sunni. You can easily find meaning in ideas from these fictional traditions without having any real issues. What might come to mind is how we decide what has value and what doesn’t.

There is a belief that if something is older it has more value. If it’s origins are mysterious then it must somehow have more meaning. The thing that is funny about this is that this is not a new phenomenon. Part of the reason so many parts of Christianity stuck to the idea that the religion had Jewish origins despite their persecution of the Jewish community is that Judaism was older. Even ancient people believed that if something was ancient it must somehow have value.

The truth is that stories are meaningless on their own. It is our own understanding and perception that gives stories meaning. Two people can read the exact same story word for word and one can come away with nothing while the other is changed down to their very core.

Now if you wrap up a book with ideas like it being the literal word of God then you have to have meaning but even then people will interpret things differently. If you find one mistake in something you call the word of God then it is now a worthless book. If you however look for meaning and take it where you find it you will generally speaking be better off.

Being flexible and understanding the myriad of meanings that can come from any one source will benefit you tremendously. I have met people who say that Kurukshetra is a sacred place because that is where Krishna revealed the Bhagavad Gita to Arjuna. I would argue that the words of the Gita are beautiful whether they were said in Kurukshetra or some place like Arizona. If God is all pervasive and the creation is her gem then no place can truly be more holy than any other it’s merely the intention we have when at these places.

If the Bhagavad Gita was actually a late 2nd century BCE text rather than something truly more ancient then the Gita doesn’t loose a single ounce of meaning to me. We will all find meaning in numerous places and I think we should be as open as we can be to that. If a story is fiction and it inspires you then it is just as important on a spiritual level as something happening right in front of your eyes.

I was just thinking about all of this and figured I would share my thoughts and see what you guys thought.

Yes, there are moral stories that are good to know ─ the Little Engine that Could, Baucis and Philemon, the Harry Potter stories for their ideas of loyalty, cooperation, and (dare I say) sacrifice. The Bible is a bit heavy-handed, though ─ the Good Samaritan, maybe David and Goliath, but there's a lot of baggage and yes master, and God is an old-school do what I say not what I do character from first to last (or alpha to omega if you prefer).

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

So basically what you are saying is whether or not the religion is intended to be fictional if people get some subjective value out of it that's what ultimately matters. And numerous people on my thread have said the exact same thing in fact. In fact, many people don't even like using the term fictional religion because all religions, they claim, exist if it changes the person studying the religion enough. And since every religion has changed people, even what I considered to be the fictional ones, then they all must be real to some degree.

Religion ultimately answers the question of why we exist... If that question is answered by playing Elder Scrolls video games, then I would take it that the Nine Divines holds some value to you, even if you consider the religion fictional. Some people might be inspired to play Elder Scrolls because of the Imperial pantheon. I don't know. But what I do know is that there is subjective value regarding religion. From the silly Pastafarians to the uptight Catholics to my own Exaltism.

Edit: Hey look it's my 500th post! Woo!

 

[rational experiences]

Religion was just an after effect of realisation humans said about man's god earth science and technology as fake liars and wrong.

Hence so is most of your advice you reference in religious terms. Wrong.

Ignored however as consciousness is learned human only self experience now. As you live. New advice might be advice about old human behaviours...yet I wasn't living in the past when it happened.

I live now so reference the past as to state it's happening again now.

Occult nuclear science machine only position is all fake science. Science isn't reality it's a chosen human practice only.

Machine only position.

The con false preaching was pretending a machine is planet earth.

Machine never existed and is man's fake science.

Reactions aren't reacting in natural law first. Man comparing advice as the man.

Fake science means the practice is against all bodies natural.

It's why earth was given sin holes by scientists.

It's why the living garden nature combusted.

It's why animals humans adults termed from baby life were sacrificed on gods altar being stone mass.

Now mass isn't a ceremony...the big con.
Now the altar isn't a man built church ceremony...its origin terms is the rock that man changed.

As ceremony is fake...took all of its fake terms from earths natural body terms first.

As a baby is born holy from mother humans birth water born over its head.

Gets born into an un holy heavens water mass changed by satanic men occult science and then gets life sacrificed.

Ignored.

The church a legal founding promised as a rich hypocrite that their community would keep life safe.

It hasn't.

Science is fake and always was a human con.

Men taught hell was in the spatial cosmos.

As earth became a mountain in planet mass...not hell.

Heavens versus hell was above us only the exact place.

On our side is cooled cooling.

In space it's burning.

In space empty a long long way away is non burning coldest place.

In earths mass above as its lowest historic mass lowest as law highest is rock. Its lowest was volcanic history mass.

In earths heavens above is its coldest mass. Spirit gases.

Gas owns space not to be mass is exactly the man advice. Its how men got a gas out of converting earths mass by giving it new amounts of space by removing mass.

You cannot theory about it twice is the learning.

As immaculate doesn't exist anymore. Historic theme. It's presence is to protect life below from burning above...a teaching only and not a theory.

To theory means a human inventor theories to change earths mass himself to build a machine that he gets from heated Alchemy to applied cooled Alchemy.

Science as calculating numbers by formula to building is applying all methods himself as a human. Is science...no matter what b.s. cosmic stories he uses.