Materialistic Non-Duality

[Nakosis]

Duality sees the mind and body as seperate.
The usual understanding of Non-Duality is an emphasis on spirit. The existence of a spiritual realm. Maya, reality is the illusion and consciousness is the truth.

My view, and this is just my path to mental maturity, is that a separate spiritual conscious self is the illusion. There is no separate conscious self. Yet you might say I feel, I experience, my conscious spiritual self is real. How can "I" be an illusion. I exist. I think therefore I am. The ultimate in self-determination.

I'm not saying the "I" does not exist. What I am saying is that the "I" is the physical body/Central Nervous System. So for me, non-self is letting go of the idea of a separate spiritual reality. The I that feels, experiences, observes is the physical self.

I understand it is more a matter of perception, perception being a construct of viewpoint. However I identify as a physical body. That to me is all that there is. Nothing needs to be added to explain existence.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Duality sees the mind and body as seperate.
The usual understanding of Non-Duality is an emphasis on spirit. The existence of a spiritual realm. Maya, reality is the illusion and consciousness is the truth.

My view, and this is just my path to mental maturity, is that a separate spiritual conscious self is the illusion. There is no separate conscious self. Yet you might say I feel, I experience, my conscious spiritual self is real. How can "I" be an illusion. I exist. I think therefore I am. The ultimate in self-determination.

I'm not saying the "I" does not exist. What I am saying is that the "I" is the physical body/Central Nervous System. So for me, non-self is letting go of the idea of a separate spiritual reality. The I that feels, experiences, observes is the physical self.

I understand it is more a matter of perception, perception being a construct of viewpoint. However I identify as a physical body. That to me is all that there is. Nothing needs to be added to explain existence.

How would you call someone who sees themself as not the body but the spirit "trapped within" the body? Would that be Dualist?

 

[metis]

Duality sees the mind and body as seperate.
The usual understanding of Non-Duality is an emphasis on spirit. The existence of a spiritual realm. Maya, reality is the illusion and consciousness is the truth.

My view, and this is just my path to mental maturity, is that a separate spiritual conscious self is the illusion. There is no separate conscious self. Yet you might say I feel, I experience, my conscious spiritual self is real. How can "I" be an illusion. I exist. I think therefore I am. The ultimate in self-determination.

I'm not saying the "I" does not exist. What I am saying is that the "I" is the physical body/Central Nervous System. So for me, non-self is letting go of the idea of a separate spiritual reality. The I that feels, experiences, observes is the physical self.

I understand it is more a matter of perception, perception being a construct of viewpoint. However I identify as a physical body. That to me is all that there is. Nothing needs to be added to explain existence.

This is pretty much a Buddhist and Hindu approach, and I happen to agree with it. Everything appears to interrelate, so we shouldn't somehow see ourselves as being totally separate from all that surrounds us.

On top of that, all things appear to change over time, so the "me" of five seconds ago is different from the "me" that is finally finishing this sentence.

IOW, nothing is stand-alone nor static-- or so it appears.

 

[Nakosis]

How would you call someone who sees themself as not the body but the spirit "trapped within" the body? Would that be Dualist?

It's not nice, but "confused"?
It is to me a matter of perspective as I said. Change your perspective to something that doesn't make you feel trapped.

 

[Spirit of Light]

It's not nice, but "confused"?
It is to me a matter of perspective as I said. Change your perspective to something that doesn't make you feel trapped.

The only way to not be trapped in my understanding is to become enlightened and end the reincarnation cycle that is when we are truly free as beings

 

[Nakosis]

The only way to not be trapped in my understanding is to become enlightened and end the reincarnation cycle that is when we are truly free as beings

Trapped is a perspective.
Trapped in a physical body you want to escape it.

For me there is nothing to escape from. Nowhere to escape to. I don't feel trapped.

Maybe it's not so easy to change our perspective, but maybe we ought to try if we find ourselves unhappy with the current one.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Trapped is a perspective.
Trapped in a physical body you want to escape it.

For me there is nothing to escape from. Nowhere to escape to. I don't feel trapped.

Maybe it's not so easy to change our perspective, but maybe we ought to try if we find ourselves unhappy with the current one.

As you maybe remember I had not long ago an OP about my depression, and since I got out of it, I have felt less trapped, so we can be trapped in negative thoughts too, but when we realize why we are trapped in our thoughts, it is possible to free our self. But the process of change is not done overnight, so to speak

 

[Valjean]

This is pretty much a Buddhist and Hindu approach, and I happen to agree with it. Everything appears to interrelate, so we shouldn't somehow see ourselves as being totally separate from all that surrounds us.

On top of that, all things appear to change over time, so the "me" of five seconds ago is different from the "me" that is finally finishing this sentence.

IOW, nothing is stand-alone nor static-- or so it appears.

But this is true only of materialist, low level realities. When you start talking about concepts like maya and Hindu concepts of non-duality, you've crossed into the quantum realm and beyond. Nothing interrelates, because there are no things to 'inter' relate. There is no "us," nor any "thing" surrounding us.

Project a man walking a dog onto a movie screen and there is a man-dog interrelationship only if you focus on the reflections. Look at the screen -- the underlying reality -- and there is no man, there is no dog, -- there is no-thing. There is a only an undifferentiated, property-less Unity.

 

[Nakosis]

But this is true only of materialist, low level realities. When you start talking about concepts like maya and Hindu concepts of non-duality, you've crossed into the quantum realm and beyond. Nothing interrelates, because there are no things to 'inter' relate. There is no "us," nor any "thing" surrounding us.

Project a man walking a dog onto a movie screen and there is a man-dog interrelationship only if you focus on the reflections. Look at the screen -- the underlying reality -- and there is no man, there is no dog, -- there is no-thing. There is a only an undifferentiated, property-less Unity.

What there is, is us. A physical being sensing photons which is translated to an image for our conscious experience. It's the same physical process when we see an actual man walking an actual dog. We've just learned how to physically duplicate the sensory data.

 

[Spirit of Light]

What there is, is us. A physical being sensing photons which is translated to an image for our conscious experience. It's the same physical process when we see an actual man walking an actual dog. We've just learned how to physically duplicate the sensory data.

Is it your eyes that see or your brain that receives a signal and interpret it to images, thoughts, and ideas? in the case of this, what or who is the receiver?

 

[Nakosis]

Is it your eyes that see or your brain that receives a signal and interpret it to images, thoughts, and ideas? in the case of this, what or who is the receiver?

Me, the CNS. Central Nervous System. Brain and all of the sensory pathways.

For me, I see consciousness as the brain/CNS, having an image of being something other than what it is. An imagined identity that doesn't really exist.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Me, the CNS. Central Nervous System. Brain and all of the sensory pathways.

For me, I see consciousness as the brain/CNS, having an image of being something other than what it is. An imagined identity that doesn't really exist.

Thank you for explaining to me how you see it

 

[George-ananda]

Duality sees the mind and body as seperate.
The usual understanding of Non-Duality is an emphasis on spirit. The existence of a spiritual realm. Maya, reality is the illusion and consciousness is the truth.

My view, and this is just my path to mental maturity, is that a separate spiritual conscious self is the illusion. There is no separate conscious self. Yet you might say I feel, I experience, my conscious spiritual self is real. How can "I" be an illusion. I exist. I think therefore I am. The ultimate in self-determination.

I'm not saying the "I" does not exist. What I am saying is that the "I" is the physical body/Central Nervous System. So for me, non-self is letting go of the idea of a separate spiritual reality. The I that feels, experiences, observes is the physical self.

I understand it is more a matter of perception, perception being a construct of viewpoint. However I identify as a physical body. That to me is all that there is. Nothing needs to be added to explain existence.

OK, that sounds like straightforward materialism which is always non-dual.

 

[Nakosis]

OK, that sounds like straightforward materialism which is always non-dual.

I suppose it does. I guess us materialistic types have a head start on nondualism.

 

[George-ananda]

I suppose it does. I guess us materialistic types have a head start on nondualism.

I am an Advaita which literally means not-two (non-dual) in Sanskrit.

However I am the opposite of a materialist:

Materialist: Matter is primary and consciousness is a derivative of matter.

Advaita Vedanta: Consciousness is primary and matter is a derivative of consciousness.

 

[Nakosis]

I am an Advaita which literally means not-two (non-dual) in Sanskrit.

However I am the opposite of a materialist:

Materialist: Matter is primary and consciousness is a derivative of matter.

Advaita Vedanta: Consciousness is primary and matter is a derivative of consciousness.

Out of curiosity, what difference do you think it makes?

 

[George-ananda]

Out of curiosity, what difference do you think it makes?

HUGE difference for me. Advaita is saying the consciousness within us is eternal and we go on past the life of one physical body until we experience Oneness of Consciousness.

Materialism says we are a blip for only as long as the body and brain can stay healthy.

 

[Nakosis]

HUGE difference for me. Advaita is saying the consciousness within us is eternal and we go on past the life of one physical body until we experience Oneness of Consciousness.

Materialism says we are a blip for only as long as the body and brain can stay healthy.

If consciousness is the illusion then nothing is lost. Everything I am remains in some form and continues to exist as long as the universe does.

 

[George-ananda]

If consciousness is the illusion then nothing is lost. Everything I am remains in some form and continues to exist as long as the universe does.

In Advaita, consciousness is not an illusion but the only thing real and eternal. The world of matter is the illusion.

 

[Valjean]

What there is, is us. A physical being sensing photons which is translated to an image for our conscious experience. It's the same physical process when we see an actual man walking an actual dog. We've just learned how to physically duplicate the sensory data.

What there is, is us. A physical being sensing photons which is translated to an image for our conscious experience. It's the same physical process when we see an actual man walking an actual dog. We've just learned how to physically duplicate the sensory data.

But if we're talking about Advaita there is no us, there is no physical being. Only a single consciousness exists in all the universe.

Our "conscious experience" varies, depending on our level of consciousness. The illusion of duality -- maya -- exists in some LOCs, but not all. Certainly not at the level of advaita.